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2013 Draft Thread Part III - Squeezed Into The Top Ten

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05-10-2013, 06:09 PM
  #301
devilsblood
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I'm of the opinion that if Ristolainen fall's and a team behind us if offering something worthwhile u trade down.

But I also think that it is more important to get a singular fwd talent then it is to add overall depth up front. So I would not trade down unless it was to a team just behind us.

I'm shakey on Shinkaruk because of being smallish and yet not very quick. So if he is the best fwd at that spot, and Ristolainen is also there, I'd be very receptive to offers.

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05-10-2013, 06:13 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Unknown Caller View Post
That makes no sense. You obviously have players ranked according to your scouts due diligence. So because you don't know what's going to happen it justifies picking a lower player on the board? You do your best to evaluate the prospects and you pick the one you feel will be the best player. Simple concept.

Since they can only assume the best player available and nobody really knows, maybe they should just draft me in the first round? I have pretty good hockey sense and after all, there's no way of knowing I won't turn out to be better than Darnell Nurse. He may have a foot on me, but that's not a big deal. In all seriousness, it makes no sense to take Zack Kassian over Dougie Hamilton because your organization needs offense more. Now, if it's a close call in terms of your scouts' rankings, like Tarasenko and Hamilton, go ahead and take Tarasenko. (Note: I know these players were drafted in different years. It's for hypothetical purposes).
Sure, maybe the Devils should draft you.

No, it`s for I`m trying to be a smartass purposes, obviously.



Now on a serious note.

No matter what you do, or how hard you try, there`s still a chance that the pick won`t pan out. Drafting is always a crapshoot, although it has taken strides since the 90`s. No list is perfect, or accurate enough to warrant anything. Sure, consensus is consensus and it tends to be the closest to reality, but still. I never said it justifies taking a lower ranked player, but it obviously could be a factor. There is simply no guarantee. And yes, obviously, I was talking about a situation when there`s a tight gap between certain highly ranked players (and since I truly believe we have virtually endless amount of options this year with how even the rankings seem, my example does apply on the situation we`re currently in). My argument wouldn`t make much sense otherwise. I can assure you that`s never the case with me.

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05-10-2013, 06:33 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by devilsblood View Post
I'm of the opinion that if Ristolainen fall's and a team behind us if offering something worthwhile u trade down.

But I also think that it is more important to get a singular fwd talent then it is to add overall depth up front. So I would not trade down unless it was to a team just behind us.

I'm shakey on Shinkaruk because of being smallish and yet not very quick. So if he is the best fwd at that spot, and Ristolainen is also there, I'd be very receptive to offers.
I'm curious to see if we'd match up with anybody in terms of trading down. At #9, one of Nichushkin/Domi/Shinkaruk will be there (or if by some weird turn of events, Lindholm/Monahan). Right now I feel like we should just take one of the three and be content.

Looking at the teams immediately after us, along with their other 2013 picks):

9. New Jersey
10. Dallas
11. Philadelphia
12. Phoenix
13. Winnipeg
14. Columbus

I imagine Dallas wouldn't give up a ton to move up one spot. Ristolainen would be a nice fit in their pool which is lacking a RH cornerstone D. Back in 2008, LA was able to extract a future 3rd to swap one spot with Buffalo (Lou also was able to get a future 3rd to drop a spot with Minnesota that year).

Trading with Philadelphia seems unlikely. If Phoenix were dealing up, they'd almost assuredly be targeting a forward. Typically GMs will divulge who they are intending to draft in a trade up scenario. In 2009, TSN showed a brief trade conversation between Toronto/Ottawa; The trade fizzled when Bryan Murray told Brian Burke that they wanted to take Kadri. Similarly there's video from 2006 when Boston wanted to trade up a spot for Nicklas Backstrom, but Washington turned it down. I could see a hypothetical trade conversation with Phoenix ending the same way.

Trading down to Winnipeg seems a bit too far, although the Jets have some trade ammunition. Along with their own 2nd and 3rd, the Jets have the 59th pick (compensation for not signing 2008 1st rounder Daultan Leveille), plus Chicago's 2nd and 3rd.

Columbus also might be looking to move up, although I would think they'd be targeting a center (Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan) rather than another young D. Perhaps Kekalainen became enamored with Ristolainen over the last couple of seasons.

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05-10-2013, 06:51 PM
  #304
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The way I see it, the situation only gets muddy if all of those top-6 forwards are gone by the ninth spot. If Nurse and Ristolainen (Jones a given, IMO) all get picked before the Devils, then that means one of Barkov, Nichushkin, Lindholm, or Monahan dropped, and then the pick is obvious, in my opinion.

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05-10-2013, 07:04 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
I'm curious to see if we'd match up with anybody in terms of trading down. At #9, one of Nichushkin/Domi/Shinkaruk will be there (or if by some weird turn of events, Lindholm/Monahan). Right now I feel like we should just take one of the three and be content.

.
I'd only be concerned if Shinkaruk was the last of those 3 left.

Granted I put very little time into draft analysis, but the smaller, not so strong and lack of speed thing is a bad combo. A lot of attributes need to be in place to over come that. And Speed has been a weak spot us.

I do really like Domi's profile, and people seem REAL high on Nichushkin, contract thing aside, and that doesn't bother me much given it's rare these guys play in the first couple years let alone contribute at a high level.

But I am very anti D-man. Given the lack of fwd depth, to not draft one in the first rnd 3 out of 4 years is a difficult decision to understand.

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05-10-2013, 07:08 PM
  #306
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I know guys were very high on keeping this pick because the draft is being held in NJ.

But would guys be cool with a draft day trade for a proven big name player ala what happened with Stahl last year?

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05-10-2013, 07:13 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by devilsblood View Post
I know guys were very high on keeping this pick because the draft is being held in NJ.

But would guys be cool with a draft day trade for a proven big name player ala what happened with Stahl last year?
Im not totally opposed to trading the pick for an established forward but with a 9th pick in a good draft I wouldnt wanna pass up a chance to draft

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05-10-2013, 07:15 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsblood View Post
I know guys were very high on keeping this pick because the draft is being held in NJ.

But would guys be cool with a draft day trade for a proven big name player ala what happened with Stahl last year?
I would be, seriously depends on the player though. None of this Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat, business.

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05-10-2013, 07:15 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by devilsblood View Post
I know guys were very high on keeping this pick because the draft is being held in NJ.

But would guys be cool with a draft day trade for a proven big name player ala what happened with Stahl last year?
I guess it all depends. We talked about this a couple weeks ago after DATW said Pierre Lebrun reported on Montreal radio that he's heard from sources that Lou might trade away the pick. Only if he really believes both Elias, and Clarkson will walk though.

I wouldn't be against it if the player had more than a year remaining on their contract. One thing I have in mind is how our coach treats young players. We could get a nice NHL ready possibly top 6 ready forward, but PDB will probably play him on the 4th line, or give him the Larsson/Fayne treatment after the first turnover.

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05-10-2013, 07:18 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I guess it all depends. We talked about this a couple weeks ago after DATW said Pierre Lebrun reported on Montreal radio that he's heard from sources that Lou might trade away the pick. Only if he really believes both Elias, and Clarkson will walk though.

I wouldn't be against it if the player had more than a year remaining on their contract. One thing I have in mind is how our coach treats young players. We could get a nice NHL ready possibly top 6 ready forward, but PDB will probably play him on the 4th line, or give him the Larsson/Fayne treatment after the first turnover.
Just because Lou trades the pick doesnt mean we lost both Patty and Clarkie. We know we need help even if we keep them .

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05-10-2013, 07:34 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
[B]
I wouldn't be against it if the player had more than a year remaining on their contract. One thing I have in mind is how our coach treats young players. We could get a nice NHL ready possibly top 6 ready forward, but PDB will probably play him on the 4th line, or give him the Larsson/Fayne treatment after the first turnover.
Oh I think that player having a long term deal in place would be mandatory. Staal did not but signing with Canes was kind of a given.

Also I think Deboer get's a bit of a bad rep in terms of how he treats the young guys.

Not many 20 yr old D-men play everyday. And deboer gave JJ and even Ted's(well maybe not this year) plenty of oppurtunities.

Fayne did seemed to get squeezed though, and Volch got more playing time then most fans myself included, thought he should. but I don't see an overall trend that says he doesn't play young guys.

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05-10-2013, 07:36 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Devils Trap View Post
Just because Lou trades the pick doesnt mean we lost both Patty and Clarkie. We know we need help even if we keep them .
I agree, but somehow I don't see him trading the pick unless he thinks we're gonna lose both.

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05-10-2013, 07:38 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I agree, but somehow I don't see him trading the pick unless he thinks we're gonna lose both.
I think trading the pick is just him trying to improve the team. We need to get a forward even if we get both re-signed

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05-10-2013, 08:30 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I agree, but somehow I don't see him trading the pick unless he thinks we're gonna lose both.

But the option of Patty seems to be all on Lou. Really sounds like he wants to stay.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Trap View Post
I think trading the pick is just him trying to improve the team. We need to get a forward even if we get both re-signed

Yup improve the team, and given the age of guys like Elias and Marty, as well as trying to build around Kovy while still in his prime, more immediate help might be the thought process.

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05-10-2013, 09:00 PM
  #315
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I have zero issues trading the pick and other pieces for a player and 2nd round pick. Again would depend on the player and contract details.

After racking my brain i cant think of any players that come to mind that someone would move at the draft that fits that mold. A younger forward signed for a couple years that plays wing.

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05-10-2013, 09:17 PM
  #316
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After racking my brain i cant think of any players that come to mind that someone would move at the draft that fits that mold. A younger forward signed for a couple years that plays wing.
Whenever I hear this I keep hoping for Bobby Ryan. Loui Erikkson would also be nice. Depends if they would move though. probably not

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05-10-2013, 09:25 PM
  #317
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I have zero issues trading the pick and other pieces for a player and 2nd round pick. Again would depend on the player and contract details.

After racking my brain i cant think of any players that come to mind that someone would move at the draft that fits that mold. A younger forward signed for a couple years that plays wing.
Bobby Ryan would be my #1 choice

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05-10-2013, 09:29 PM
  #318
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Bobby Ryan would be my #1 choice
Exactly. super solid legit winger, good cap hit and singed for a few years. Only downer is hes a Flyer fan

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05-10-2013, 09:55 PM
  #319
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Exactly. super solid legit winger, good cap hit and singed for a few years. Only downer is hes a Flyer fan
And a team that just signed 2 big stars to big contracts. With current contracts cap geek has them at less then $1 mil below cap. And Teemu sits out there as a FA. Hopefully he wants to come back for another go.

And I'd think players being fans of teams as kids becomes less of a factor the more they play in the pro's.

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05-10-2013, 10:04 PM
  #320
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Bobby Ryan would be a good choice but i just dont see them moving him. Not to mention us locking him up for a longer term contract.

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05-10-2013, 10:05 PM
  #321
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Bobby Ryan would be a good choice but i just dont see them moving him. Not to mention us locking him up for a longer term contract.
Anaheim do need cap space

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05-10-2013, 10:23 PM
  #322
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i plan to be chinese obliterated drunk for this so when im eventually let down, the only thing ill want is another beer and some cool ****ing ranch doritos.

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05-10-2013, 10:43 PM
  #323
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And a team that just signed 2 big stars to big contracts. With current contracts cap geek has them at less then $1 mil below cap. And Teemu sits out there as a FA. Hopefully he wants to come back for another go.

And I'd think players being fans of teams as kids becomes less of a factor the more they play in the pro's.
Welp I read it wrong. Cap payroll next year for ducks is over $63, but $3+ of that is bonuses, so they have $4 mil in space.

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05-10-2013, 10:54 PM
  #324
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Domi was having a tough series in the OHL Final against Barrie, but came through with a goal and assist today to help extend it to a game 6.

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05-11-2013, 10:06 AM
  #325
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I'd trade our first for Bobby Ryan in a heartbeat.

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