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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part 4: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
05-28-2013, 10:55 AM
  #851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
He was talking about getting the 7th without giving up the 11th.
Oh yeah, we'd have to give up someone like Couts. No way we try to have both. I mean, maybe trade down to Columbus for their 14th and the Rangers' 1st rounder maybe (which may be 18th or 19th, depending on if Detroit gets eliminated or not)?

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05-28-2013, 11:02 AM
  #852
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Shea Theodore has moved up in final rankings for the draft.
Anyone like him as PMD?
Does anyone think he is worth the #11 in the draft?

Bigras has moved up and Morrisey down.

Do not know anything about Bigras, what type of defender is he?

If we wanted Morrisey, I would say move down to about 20 and pick up another pick.

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05-28-2013, 11:12 AM
  #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Shea Theodore has moved up in final rankings for the draft.
Anyone like him as PMD?
Does anyone think he is worth the #11 in the draft?

Bigras has moved up and Morrisey down.

Do not know anything about Bigras, what type of defender is he?

If we wanted Morrisey, I would say move down to about 20 and pick up another pick.
Who has Theodore moving up? He's not even on ISS' rankings

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05-28-2013, 11:17 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by I Am Number 28 View Post
NBC Pro Hockey Talk reports Edmonton #Oilers GM Craig MacTavish recently claimed hes actively shopping his 1st-round pick (7th overall)

HMMMMMMMMMMMM
Mac was smart to bring attention to his pick. The teams behind him dallas, NJ, and Even buffalo are all intrested in drafting forwards especially centers. Monahan might be the last top center to go and if you want him you have to deal with Edmonton.

If Nurse is at 7 Id trade 11, 41, and next years 4th.

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05-28-2013, 11:34 AM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Who has Theodore moving up? He's not even on ISS' rankings
Just glanced at the NHL Draft Prospect Rankings @ http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectbrowse.htm

They seem to rank Theodore much higher and Morrisey lower than the other ranking systems.


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05-28-2013, 12:37 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Mac was smart to bring attention to his pick. The teams behind him dallas, NJ, and Even buffalo are all intrested in drafting forwards especially centers. Monahan might be the last top center to go and if you want him you have to deal with Edmonton.

If Nurse is at 7 Id trade 11, 41, and next years 4th.
That's a lot to give for Nurse. Meltzer on his blog posted a pre draft write up of Coburn in 2003 and it was verbatim of what is being said about Nurse. I would rather hedge my bet by taking two highly rated defensemen with the 11 and 41 picks than doubling down on Nurse.

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05-28-2013, 12:52 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
That's a lot to give for Nurse. Meltzer on his blog posted a pre draft write up of Coburn in 2003 and it was verbatim of what is being said about Nurse. I would rather hedge my bet by taking two highly rated defensemen with the 11 and 41 picks than doubling down on Nurse.
OMG...

That is my major concern with Nurse.
I find Coburn to be only adequate as a defensive defender.
Not in favor of that pick at all.

NEED PMD, NOT ANOTHER CLONE OF DEFENDERS WE HAVE ALREADY!!!

I would rather draft Pulock or Morrisey with my #11 pick'
Then I would trade my 3rd this year and 2nd and 3rd next year to move up as far as I can
this year to try and draft Hagg or Theodore.


Last edited by DecadesofFutility: 05-28-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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05-28-2013, 01:09 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
That's a lot to give for Nurse. Meltzer on his blog posted a pre draft write up of Coburn in 2003 and it was verbatim of what is being said about Nurse. I would rather hedge my bet by taking two highly rated defensemen with the 11 and 41 picks than doubling down on Nurse.
Coburn had 3 goals and 16 assists in his draft year. Nurse has 12 goals and 29 assists. How can you even compare those two offensively? If Coburn had any offensive game whatsover, he'd be considered a top pairing stud.

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05-28-2013, 01:15 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Coburn had 3 goals and 16 assists in his draft year. Nurse has 12 goals and 29 assists. How can you even compare those two offensively? If Coburn had any offensive game whatsover, he'd be considered a top pairing stud.
I'd be much more concerned with Zadorov developing offensively than Nurse. While I don't know that Nurse with have PP1 type offensive ability, I think it will be considerably better than what Coburn has shown. Nurse just has a few more promising tools that have shown development. Zadorov has shown some tools, but his offensive development would be a complete shot in the dark right now.

I think Nurse and Risto are slightly above where Pulock and Morrissey are just from a high end potential perspective based mostly on the size and physical tools at this stage. I'd argue that Pulock is likely the most developed of the 4 though.

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05-28-2013, 01:20 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Coburn had 3 goals and 16 assists in his draft year. Nurse has 12 goals and 29 assists. How can you even compare those two offensively? If Coburn had any offensive game whatsover, he'd be considered a top pairing stud.
I am just telling you what I read. Coburn, like Nurse, has all the physical talent in world. Problem is he doesn't have the hockey sense to produce nor does he have any accuracy with his shot. His first full year here he looked like he would have an offensive future but it never materialized. Nurse's reported negatives are his hockey sense and whether or not his offensive game will translate. Picking Nurse at 11 is one thing, which I think would be a decent choice, but trading another high draft pick in a deep draft for someone with the same questions that Coburn had coming out, isn't a smart allocation of resources IMO. Why not draft another highly skilled defenseman at 41 just in case Nurse's offense doesn't translate. After Seth Jones, there are no sure thing defensemen in this draft.

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05-28-2013, 01:28 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am just telling you what I read. Coburn, like Nurse, has all the physical talent in world. Problem is he doesn't have the hockey sense to produce nor does he have any accuracy with his shot. His first full year here he looked like he would have an offensive future but it never materialized. Nurse's reported negatives are his hockey sense and whether or not his offensive game will translate. Picking Nurse at 11 is one thing, which I think would be a decent choice, but trading another high draft pick in a deep draft for someone with the same questions that Coburn had coming out, isn't a smart allocation of resources IMO. Why not draft another highly skilled defenseman at 41 just in case Nurse's offense doesn't translate. After Seth Jones, there are no sure thing defensemen in this draft.
Then wouldn't it make sense to take a forward?

I keep seeing the Flyers need a PMD so they should draft one of that style even if there might be better "defensive" defensemen available. Are people really that obtuse. If they draft any defenseman, that player probably won't be in a position to help Philly for like 4 years. Why draft a lesser rated player simply because he fills a need of your current team. By the time the player is ready to contribute, the team needs will be totally different. Draft the BPA.

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05-28-2013, 01:57 PM
  #862
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fwiw, from the Prospects board, Moderator Brock drafted a list of the top 50 OHL prospects for the draft and he ranked Nurse as #1.

Quote:
1. Darnell Nurse - Defenseman - Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds
At this point, Nurse is definitely my top prospect available from the OHL. All season long, I wrestled back and forth between Monahan and Nurse. But it's clearly Nurse now IMO. He possesses so much potential at the next level. He could be a perennial Norris candidate IMO. The thing I like most about Nurse is how much he improved this season from the last. You need to look at that progression and think about just how good he could be, if he continues to tap into his athletic bloodlines (father was a CFL player), and continues to improve. He's certainly a potential dynamo at both ends of the ice. His size (6'5, pushing 200lbs), makes him an asset in the defensive end. As does his skating ability. He's incredibly difficult to get around and he's physical enough to intimidate. As he gets stronger, I expect his physical game to become more consistent and more effective. He certainly has the mentality to be a bruiser. In the defensive end, he's still learning a bit. He can get caught out of position at times, but with strong coaching I think this improves. Offensively, he went through the biggest transformation this season. He looked very poised and confident with the puck and took chances in leading and joining the rush. His skating ability makes him a threat offensively. He's also got an absolute cannon of a shot that will only get better as he gets stronger. His play on the powerplay is improving. This year, with Ryan Sproul and Colin Miller on the point, Nurse was relegated to the 2nd unit. Next year, it'll be his show to run and I expect very big things from him. When all is said and done, Nurse has the potential to be one of those defenseman who doesn't really have any holes in his game. He's the complete package and I think he's the 2nd defenseman off the board after Seth Jones.

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05-28-2013, 02:55 PM
  #863
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I think if you don't want Nurse, you're crazy. Sure, he's similar to Coburn but that's not a bad thing. Imagine if Coburn was better defensively and had an offensive game where he could put up 30+ points a season. A top pairing, 1st unit PK, 2nd unit PP with the ability to play on the top pairing.

That's the kind of player we need to be able to shut down Crosby, Malkin, Nash, Kovalchuk, Tavares, Ovechkin, Backstrom, the Staals, Semin and all the others stars who are going to be in our division next season.

I doubt Nurse gets to 11th anyway ... wouldn't be shocked to see him at 8th or 9th or 10th. I think the top-7 should be set in stone, though.

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05-28-2013, 02:57 PM
  #864
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Seriously, I'd say unless Nurse or Lindholm falls to us, I think we should trade down to get 14th and 18th/19th (Ranger's pick) with out 11th.

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05-28-2013, 03:09 PM
  #865
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Im on the Nurse train. I have wanted him for a while over every defender in this draft(expect Jones). I also like Pulock, but Nurse has the ability to one day become a big time player in this league. Up above someone mentioned 30+ points, I honestly think he could round out into a 40+ player if he puts all his potential together. If the Flyers end up drafting him or trading up to get him, it will automatically be a good draft. I would like to see some quality picks in the later rounds though as well.

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05-28-2013, 03:20 PM
  #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Seriously, I'd say unless Nurse or Lindholm falls to us, I think we should trade down to get 14th and 18th/19th (Ranger's pick) with out 11th.
If that is possible I would be all over it. I think one of Pulock, Risto, Morrissey, Morin, and Haag will be there at 14, and Mantha should still be there at 18/19, along with possibly Domi, Zykov, or Erne. You could even grab two defenders if some of the defensemen fall. Hell someone like Shinkaruk could even fall that far depending on how things shake out. That would be ideal. I'd be more interested in doing that than simply picking at 11.

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05-28-2013, 03:22 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If that is possible I would be all over it. I think one of Pulock, Risto, Morrissey, Morin, and Haag will be there at 14, and Mantha should still be there at 18/19, along with possibly Domi, Zykov, or Erne. You could even grab two defenders if some of the defensemen fall. Hell someone like Shinkaruk could even fall that far depending on how things shake out. That would be ideal. I'd be more interested in doing that than simply picking at 11.
I'd rather have Zykov or Domi over Mantha (probably because he's more one-dimensional than the other two). But yes, that would be awesome as hell. We'd have to sweeten it for Columbus though. 11th, Mez and our 3rd for both?

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05-28-2013, 03:29 PM
  #868
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Just give up 41 to move up if nurse is there. From what we know from all the analysis done on how well 2nd rounders turn out, it is well worth the risk to move up and secure a player who potentially is a number 1 dman

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05-28-2013, 03:29 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Seriously, I'd say unless Nurse or Lindholm falls to us, I think we should trade down to get 14th and 18th/19th (Ranger's pick) with out 11th.
If Nurse, Ristolainen and all of the 'big 7' forwards are off the board, I would trade down. Decent chance either Nurse or Ristolainen falls to us though.

1. Jones
2. MacKinnon
3. Drouin
4. Barkov
5. Monahan
6. Lindholm
7. Nichushkin
8. Ristolainen
9. Nurse

If any of those guys fall, it's a no brainer IMO. Somebody could easily go after Shinkaruk and then somebody could easily reach for somebody like Horvat, Domi, Lazar, Zadorov, etc. ...

If nobody falls, I think about moving back. It really depends who would be available when, though.

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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Im on the Nurse train. I have wanted him for a while over every defender in this draft(expect Jones). I also like Pulock, but Nurse has the ability to one day become a big time player in this league. Up above someone mentioned 30+ points, I honestly think he could round out into a 40+ player if he puts all his potential together. If the Flyers end up drafting him or trading up to get him, it will automatically be a good draft. I would like to see some quality picks in the later rounds though as well.
I say 30+ points 'cause that's being cautiously optimistic. I'd rather have him be unreal defensively then worry about offense later. Kind of like how Ryan Suter developed.

EDIT: Do NOT give up the 2nd rounder without getting another pick back that's at least in the top 50. The early 2nd round of this draft is pretty much another late 1st rounder. Lots of great players will be left.

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05-28-2013, 03:50 PM
  #870
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Quote:Originally Posted by Psuhockey

I am just telling you what I read. Coburn, like Nurse, has all the physical talent in world. Problem is he doesn't have the hockey sense to produce nor does he have any accuracy with his shot. His first full year here he looked like he would have an offensive future but it never materialized. Nurse's reported negatives are his hockey sense and whether or not his offensive game will translate. Picking Nurse at 11 is one thing, which I think would be a decent choice, but trading another high draft pick in a deep draft for someone with the same questions that Coburn had coming out, isn't a smart allocation of resources IMO.


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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
I think if you don't want Nurse, you're crazy. Sure, he's similar to Coburn but that's not a bad thing. Imagine if Coburn was better defensively and had an offensive game where he could put up 30+ points a season. A top pairing, 1st unit PK, 2nd unit PP with the ability to play on the top pairing.

That's the kind of player we need to be able to shut down Crosby, Malkin, Nash, Kovalchuk, Tavares, Ovechkin, Backstrom, the Staals, Semin and all the others stars who are going to be in our division next season.

I doubt Nurse gets to 11th anyway ... wouldn't be shocked to see him at 8th or 9th or 10th. I think the top-7 should be set in stone, though.
I am crazy then, I admit it.
No desire for Nurse at all, he is a Coburn clone.
Good Skating and Limited Offensive Ability.
He is not Pronger or Weber.


Last edited by DecadesofFutility: 05-28-2013 at 04:17 PM.
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05-28-2013, 04:01 PM
  #871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
I am just telling you what I read. Coburn, like Nurse, has all the physical talent in world. Problem is he doesn't have the hockey sense to produce nor does he have any accuracy with his shot. His first full year here he looked like he would have an offensive future but it never materialized. Nurse's reported negatives are his hockey sense and whether or not his offensive game will translate. Picking Nurse at 11 is one thing, which I think would be a decent choice, but trading another high draft pick in a deep draft for someone with the same questions that Coburn had coming out, isn't a smart allocation of resources IMO.




I am crazy then, I admit it.
No desire for Nurse at all, he is a Coburn clone.
Good Skating and Limited Offensive Ability.
He is not Pronger or Weber.
Just because he isn't Pronger or Weber doesn't mean he should be ignored. Getting a good dman for less than the 4.5 million Coburn is paid helps the team by increasing cap efficiency.

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05-28-2013, 04:16 PM
  #872
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Never seen so many people ADAMANT about what a player will or will not be based on what they READ in a scouting report. The scouts whose lives revolve around traveling and seeing these guys in person cannot come to a consensus and can be very wrong about a players ultimate progression, yet the boards are packed with these firm assessments based on words on an internet page.

The draft is all guesswork. Educated guess work, progression and meeting and watching these kids play a ton. I understand the speculation of the guys you like based on what you read, but asserting so definitely that a guy is or isn't going to be something is crazy to me.

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05-28-2013, 04:22 PM
  #873
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Never seen so many people ADAMANT about what a player will or will not be based on what they READ in a scouting report. The scouts whose lives revolve around traveling and seeing these guys in person cannot come to a consensus and can be very wrong about a players ultimate progression, yet the boards are packed with these firm assessments based on words on an internet page.

The draft is all guesswork. Educated guess work, progression and meeting and watching these kids play a ton. I understand the speculation of the guys you like based on what you read, but asserting so definitely that a guy is or isn't going to be something is crazy to me.
In general, there are very few guarantees, if any, that a player will pan out the way you expected them to, if at all.

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05-28-2013, 04:27 PM
  #874
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How accurate are ISS rankings? Or at least how accurate have they been in the past 10-15 years at projecting success in the NHL?

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05-28-2013, 04:36 PM
  #875
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How accurate are ISS rankings? Or at least how accurate have they been in the past 10-15 years at projecting success in the NHL?
As with every rankings (including CS rankings), players rise and fall. Different scouts like different players. An example is Zadorov is liked by ISS (ranked like 9th) alot more than CS (ranked around 20th)

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