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Why can't this team score in the playoffs?

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Old
05-02-2013, 08:41 PM
  #101
just22
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If my math is correct, Canucks have averaged 2.6 GF/G since that win against the Bruins last year, up until the end of this regular season. 226 goals in 88 games. The first half of the 11-12 season, plus the previous 3 seasons, they averaged 3.15 GF/G.

What the hell happened?

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05-02-2013, 09:27 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by just22 View Post
If my math is correct, Canucks have averaged 2.6 GF/G since that win against the Bruins last year, up until the end of this regular season. 226 goals in 88 games. The first half of the 11-12 season, plus the previous 3 seasons, they averaged 3.15 GF/G.

What the hell happened?
Powerplay

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Old
05-02-2013, 09:33 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by just22 View Post
If my math is correct, Canucks have averaged 2.6 GF/G since that win against the Bruins last year, up until the end of this regular season. 226 goals in 88 games. The first half of the 11-12 season, plus the previous 3 seasons, they averaged 3.15 GF/G.

What the hell happened?
Hodgson trade.

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05-02-2013, 09:37 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Uh......no.

It's a lifeless bunch of overpaid, NTC-laden fatcats on the Vancouver bench. There's no emotion to be found, whatsoever. Last night, anyway, it looked like these guys already had one foot aboard a plane to wherever their first off-season excursion takes them. Looked completely disinterested. Playing against the worst road team in the entire playoffs, and they're the only team to lose the home opener.

That's "playing as hard as they can", to you? Certainly not to me.
+1
They played like they didn't care 1 way or the other --it was sad & very disheartening for fans.

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05-02-2013, 09:38 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
THey didn't price 'em to not sell 'em - unsold tickets are unsold tickets - expectations not met.
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
They raised them. People didn't buy into that raise. Simple miscalculation. At the price point set, people's willingness to pay decreased. Now they adjust the price to compensate. It happens all the time in business.
It helps to understand what ownership's goal is. If it's to sell out the arena, they fell a little short with their initial pricing. If it's to maximize gate revenue, then a sellout is a pretty good indicator that they're not doing so.

The real answer is probably a combination of both.

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05-02-2013, 09:42 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
Hodgson trade.
So Hodgson was the reason for Averaging 3.15 goals from first half of the 11-12 season, plus the previous 3 seasons?

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05-02-2013, 09:44 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
So Hodgson was the reason for Averaging 3.15 goals from first half of the 11-12 season, plus the previous 3 seasons?
no but that's the only change since the boston game.

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05-02-2013, 09:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
So Hodgson was the reason for Averaging 3.15 goals from first half of the 11-12 season, plus the previous 3 seasons?
This. Hodgson is so overrated by some Canucks fans.

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05-02-2013, 09:54 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
This. Hodgson is so overrated by some Canucks fans.
Well, if we hadn't made that trade, we wouldn't have needed to part ways with one of best prospects and a 2nd round pick to get a guy who's not even as good a player as Cody is 1 year later.

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05-02-2013, 09:59 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Well, if we hadn't made that trade, we wouldn't have needed to part ways with one of best prospects and a 2nd round pick to get a guy who's not even as good a player as Cody is 1 year later.
I'd take Roy and Kassian over Hodgson, Connauton and a 2 nd any day. Lateral movement my ass how come Hodgson was Buffalo's 2 nd line centre last year while Roy was Buffalo's #1?

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05-02-2013, 10:03 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by just22 View Post
If my math is correct, Canucks have averaged 2.6 GF/G since that win against the Bruins last year, up until the end of this regular season. 226 goals in 88 games. The first half of the 11-12 season, plus the previous 3 seasons, they averaged 3.15 GF/G.

What the hell happened?
Take out the PP goals for the last few seasons and here's what you get:

09-10: 2.49 G/G

10-11: 2.27 G/G

11-12 (up to Boston game): 2.29 G/G

11-12 (post-Boston game): 2.20 G/G

12-13: 2.00 G/G


Not that dramatic of a difference, especially when you consider that the 12-13 number was still pretty dynamic based on a few games of good or bad ES play. With 6 games left in the season they were 2.19 G/G without the PP which would put them 1 GF every 12-13 games lower than their 10-11 pace.

As mentioned above the real culprit is their PP effectiveness as well as a leaguewide drop in scoring.

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05-02-2013, 10:17 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Uh......no.

It's a lifeless bunch of overpaid, NTC-laden fatcats on the Vancouver bench. There's no emotion to be found, whatsoever. Last night, anyway, it looked like these guys already had one foot aboard a plane to wherever their first off-season excursion takes them. Looked completely disinterested. Playing against the worst road team in the entire playoffs, and they're the only team to lose the home opener.

That's "playing as hard as they can", to you? Certainly not to me.
The team is demoralized. That's on coaching. One, for not getting them up for the game and two, for killing the flow. I feel the players don't enjoy playing the game the way they used to. It's not a matter of them losing passion so much as the risk-averse strategies drawn up by the coaching staff. No more speed through the neutral zone, kill all spontaneity, kill all creativity. It's a play-not-to-lose mentality and it's taking its toll on the players. Too much of a slog to generate low-percentage scoring opportunities is a great way to depress morale. They're only human after all.

You want this squad to play with more passion? More intensity? Re-introduce speed into their repertoire, give them a reason to believe and you'll get your wish.

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05-02-2013, 10:28 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Cocoa Crisp View Post
The team is demoralized. That's on coaching. One, for not getting them up for the game and two, for killing the flow. I feel the players don't enjoy playing the game the way they used to. It's not a matter of them losing passion so much as the risk-averse strategies drawn up by the coaching staff. No more speed through the neutral zone, kill all spontaneity, kill all creativity. It's a play-not-to-lose mentality and it's taking its toll on the players. Too much of a slog to generate low-percentage scoring opportunities is a great way to depress morale. They're only human after all.

You want this squad to play with more passion? More intensity? Re-introduce speed into their repertoire, give them a reason to believe and you'll get your wish.
So basically, AV is deliberately sabotaging the Canucks. That's what you're saying? "Re-introduce speed into their repertoire"?!?

Though I do agree with you that the team is demoralized. I think that a more accurate description of them would be apathetic. They probably all know that their best chance was in 2011, which they choked away, and they're probably now at peace with that. These are mostly guys in their 30s, with wives, kids, etc., and I'm just not that convinced that winning the Stanley Cup is all that important to them anymore.

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Old
05-02-2013, 10:32 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoa Crisp View Post
The team is demoralized. That's on coaching. One, for not getting them up for the game and two, for killing the flow. I feel the players don't enjoy playing the game the way they used to. It's not a matter of them losing passion so much as the risk-averse strategies drawn up by the coaching staff. No more speed through the neutral zone, kill all spontaneity, kill all creativity. It's a play-not-to-lose mentality and it's taking its toll on the players. Too much of a slog to generate low-percentage scoring opportunities is a great way to depress morale. They're only human after all.

You want this squad to play with more passion? More intensity? Re-introduce speed into their repertoire, give them a reason to believe and you'll get your wish.
So you're blaming the coaches for not motivating professional athletes on a veteran team who aren't able to motivate themselves for a playoff game?

If the players can't get themselves up for a playoff game then we should blow the core up right now.

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Old
05-03-2013, 02:10 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Sedins play a possession game most of the time and that's it. Pretty clear the other line's go-to is a dump and chase. I don't like the dump and chase primarily because the other 3 lines are the lines that don't throw the puck back to defenders when they are battling down low.
Even the Sedins dump and chase nowadays - and not even hard shoot-ins too. Pretty frustrating to watch when it doesn't fit their style.

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05-03-2013, 02:17 AM
  #116
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I think it'd be interesting to compare how the team does possession-wise in the regular season and playoffs. But that's also problematic since the sample size for the latter is small compared to the former. Not to mention injuries, changing rosters etc.

And do our scoring chances go down in the playoffs, or stay the same more or less?

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05-03-2013, 02:26 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
So Hodgson was the reason for Averaging 3.15 goals from first half of the 11-12 season, plus the previous 3 seasons?
Nope, but the inability to replace the loss of his skill plus players like Ehrhoff, Samuelsson, Salo, Demitra, etc all combined over the years is the reason for the PP production dipping, plus less puck control at even strength.

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05-03-2013, 02:51 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
I think it'd be interesting to compare how the team does possession-wise in the regular season and playoffs. But that's also problematic since the sample size for the latter is small compared to the former. Not to mention injuries, changing rosters etc.

And do our scoring chances go down in the playoffs, or stay the same more or less?
I think the samples in the playoffs are just too small the draw much from possession stats.

The only real constant in the last few years is that the Canucks' shooting percentage drops through the floor come playoff time. At ES they shot 5.7% in 10-11 and 3.8% in 11-12. Some of that is just due to bad luck, but their shooting percentage has pretty consistently dropped to end the season in each of the last few years. In the last 3 seasons, their ES shooting percentage through the first 3/4 of the year has consistently been around 8.5-9%. In the final 1/4 of the season however, it's dropped all 3 years into the 6.2-6.8% range before falling even further in the playoffs.

Fairly small sample sizes, but it's the 3rd year in a row where we've seen the same thing. For whatever reason the team just hasn't been able to convert on its shots at the end of the season or into the playoffs.

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05-03-2013, 03:54 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
I think the samples in the playoffs are just too small the draw much from possession stats.

The only real constant in the last few years is that the Canucks' shooting percentage drops through the floor come playoff time. At ES they shot 5.7% in 10-11 and 3.8% in 11-12. Some of that is just due to bad luck, but their shooting percentage has pretty consistently dropped to end the season in each of the last few years. In the last 3 seasons, their ES shooting percentage through the first 3/4 of the year has consistently been around 8.5-9%. In the final 1/4 of the season however, it's dropped all 3 years into the 6.2-6.8% range before falling even further in the playoffs.

Fairly small sample sizes, but it's the 3rd year in a row where we've seen the same thing. For whatever reason the team just hasn't been able to convert on its shots at the end of the season or into the playoffs.
Interesting - is this just the one trend that turns out negatively for the Canucks come playoff time? And would you chalk that up to bad luck or something deeper? Teams are known to tighten up their defensive play down the stretch, but it seems we've yet to find a way to break through that.

Everyone knows that scoring goes down in the playoffs, but is this reasonable? Should it be that big of a decrease, relative to league-wide trends? Because somehow I suspect that, if you compare our change in shooting % to a lot of other teams', there is not nearly as drastic a drop...

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05-03-2013, 04:24 AM
  #120
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Cause this team doesn't drive in the net... Other than kesler, no one will to dirty area.. The whole team play on the outside. This is why they miss booth alot..

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05-03-2013, 04:30 AM
  #121
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I think the team also likes to work on these trick type plays(faceoff plays, ice the puck and get to it first, drop pass) that are more likely to work at first and in regular season games but stop being effective after awhile. I think those kind of things have made people think there is more skill on this team than there really is.

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05-03-2013, 04:48 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Even the Sedins dump and chase nowadays - and not even hard shoot-ins too. Pretty frustrating to watch when it doesn't fit their style.
Amen, brother. I've never been a big supporter of dump and chase but it's getting really old.

I like the old Sedin strategy of going through the opponents' blue-line 100% speed then stopping at the blue-line and dishing it to the 3rd guy in. What ever happened to that? I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist but I haven't seen that at all since the days of Ehrhoff.

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05-03-2013, 04:56 AM
  #123
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Possession? The team makes a stretch pass and tips it in 9/10 times. That's not a possession system.
This. It really makes me wonder if there is a disconnect between coach and GM. I remember a video of Gillis post-draft (couldn't find it) talking about the Canucks and how they pride themselves on playing a puck possession game. There are a few speculations one considers from a video like this: does Gillis not know what a puck possession team looks like, was he lying to the reporter about his team's identity for some unexplained reason, or is AV just not wanting to coach that style (assuming he knows how). Something doesn't jive and it really shows on the ice.

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05-03-2013, 07:04 AM
  #124
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Amen, brother. I've never been a big supporter of dump and chase but it's getting really old.

I like the old Sedin strategy of going through the opponents' blue-line 100% speed then stopping at the blue-line and dishing it to the 3rd guy in. What ever happened to that? I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist but I haven't seen that at all since the days of Ehrhoff.
That's true. That used to be their bread and butter. And it succeeded in attaining a scoring chance more often than not, if memory serves me correctly.

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05-03-2013, 08:13 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
So basically, AV is deliberately sabotaging the Canucks. That's what you're saying? "Re-introduce speed into their repertoire"?!?

Though I do agree with you that the team is demoralized. I think that a more accurate description of them would be apathetic. They probably all know that their best chance was in 2011, which they choked away, and they're probably now at peace with that. These are mostly guys in their 30s, with wives, kids, etc., and I'm just not that convinced that winning the Stanley Cup is all that important to them anymore.
AV is doing the best he can. He wants to win as much as anyone. He's just out of ideas and well past his best before date. The system he put in place worked brilliantly in 09-10. Teams have figured it out and he's incapable of adapting.

When I say they need to re-introduce speed into their game, I mean change their approach to counter the strategies employed by the other team that's killing their speed through the neutral zone with numbers.

The easiest fix for that would be to stop waiting for everyone to collect near their blueline before rushing the puck up ice. It's giving the other side way too much time to set up a defensive stand at their blueline, which in turn is resulting in every attack beginning with a dump and chase.

Mix it up. Have the dman rush it up ice once in a while. Use stretch passes. Not the scouted to death bounce pass off the end boards. An actual stretch pass where you hit your forward in full stride.

That being said, they tried to do some of these things early on in the season when they were struggling and it failed because they weren't able to do so and play responsible defensive hockey at the same time. IMO, that again is on coaching and their inability to make it work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So you're blaming the coaches for not motivating professional athletes on a veteran team who aren't able to motivate themselves for a playoff game?

If the players can't get themselves up for a playoff game then we should blow the core up right now.
They weren't ready for the intensity of playoff hockey. That's not a motivational thing. It's drills and pace of practice leading up to the playoffs. No need to 'blow up the core' over it.

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