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05/03/2013 Islanders at Penguins: I'm not obsessed with Sid, my F5 key is just stuck

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Old
05-02-2013, 09:31 PM
  #126
Crafton
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
It's because there's no middle ground. One side says he's garbage and then there are those on the other side that claim he's an elite goalie. I don't think either has been true up to this point. He's been an average to above average starter with consistency issues. That's about it in my opinion. If he wasn't a #1 pick playing for the Pens I doubt anyone would be talking about him much.
he'd probably have a similar reputation as Nabby - good to great in the regular season, but not exactly stellar in the post-season. capable of brilliance but it's not likely that he's going to win the series on his own.


Last edited by Crafton: 05-02-2013 at 09:40 PM.
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05-02-2013, 09:34 PM
  #127
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Exactly. Paul Martin and our entire defense crapped the bed. Any goalie put in the situation that he was would have let in just as many goals. It's so easy to blame the goalie, but no one cares that our defense was so hell bent on not playing physical and using these chip backhands to clear the zone, that they would just end up turning it over half the time. MAF had a bad series last year, but he's still a great goalie. Stop giving more credit to goalies who haven't made it to the finals let alone won a cup.
Our defense was awful, but elite goalies bail out the defense every once in a while. I know that he's won a lot of games for us, including a Cup, but I never see Fleury as the type of goalie who could go on a Conn Smythe-type run. I'm still nervous with him in net.

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05-02-2013, 09:39 PM
  #128
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Any news on Neal? Don't have twitter so i don't get updates.

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05-02-2013, 10:13 PM
  #129
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Any news on Neal? Don't have twitter so i don't get updates.
"There's no update and I'm not going to give you one."

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05-02-2013, 10:33 PM
  #130
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Any news on Neal? Don't have twitter so i don't get updates.
http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/...#axzz2SCGVYlMu

Likely out apparently

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05-02-2013, 10:46 PM
  #131
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I love this guy.
And YOU can plan on meeting me in the parking lot...

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05-03-2013, 12:59 AM
  #132
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Man I am so tired of reading Shelly Anderson/Josh Yohe tweets and speculation. Sometimes I think it was better to be a fan in the 90s and just wait for the next day's paper.
Get off Twitter? That's uh.. a quick fix to your problem?

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05-03-2013, 01:01 AM
  #133
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Get off Twitter? That's uh.. a quick fix to your problem?
his problem is OUR problem. the Pens beat-writers are worthless.

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Old
05-03-2013, 01:20 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by chuppa chupp View Post
Our defense was awful, but elite goalies bail out the defense every once in a while. I know that he's won a lot of games for us, including a Cup, but I never see Fleury as the type of goalie who could go on a Conn Smythe-type run. I'm still nervous with him in net.
Then do not call him elite. I do not. Its your opinion. My opinion is that Fleury is not elite, but above good/great... He floats in this odd grey area. Some goalies and players go that. They are not a grinder, but not a elite goal scorer. They are not a shut down or point man D, but a jack of all trades... Etc.. Etc... Etc...

A lot of Pens fans want to believe we have a elite goalie in net, because he was taken 1st overall. Guess what there are countless 1st round picks that do not make the NHL, or at best become 3rd liners or 5/6th dmen... Yes he was taken 1st overall... But be happy with the fact that we have a goalie that may not be elite but is most definitely above the average joe goalie in the league.

With that said... Last year the defense completely left him out to dry, it was insane to watch the melt down in front of him. Goalies, elite or not... should be expected to steal a game here and there depending on their skill level, but they can not do it alone except for the rare occasion that they stand on their heads and break dance... But as long as our defense plays above decent to well in front of him this year with our forward depth this year we should be able to go deep. At least to the Conference Final.

But that is all still to be seen... But thats my 2 cents on Fleury.

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05-03-2013, 04:04 AM
  #135
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Then do not call him elite. I do not. Its your opinion. My opinion is that Fleury is not elite, but above good/great... He floats in this odd grey area. Some goalies and players go that. They are not a grinder, but not a elite goal scorer. They are not a shut down or point man D, but a jack of all trades... Etc.. Etc... Etc...

A lot of Pens fans want to believe we have a elite goalie in net, because he was taken 1st overall. Guess what there are countless 1st round picks that do not make the NHL, or at best become 3rd liners or 5/6th dmen... Yes he was taken 1st overall... But be happy with the fact that we have a goalie that may not be elite but is most definitely above the average joe goalie in the league.

With that said... Last year the defense completely left him out to dry, it was insane to watch the melt down in front of him. Goalies, elite or not... should be expected to steal a game here and there depending on their skill level, but they can not do it alone except for the rare occasion that they stand on their heads and break dance... But as long as our defense plays above decent to well in front of him this year with our forward depth this year we should be able to go deep. At least to the Conference Final.

But that is all still to be seen... But thats my 2 cents on Fleury.
Great post. I agree 100% on all of it.

It does however conflict me knowing Fleury can be so beastly in shootouts but never in games between the whistles, though. Guess we'll never know.

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05-03-2013, 05:03 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by SterlingBennett View Post
Then do not call him elite. I do not. Its your opinion. My opinion is that Fleury is not elite, but above good/great... He floats in this odd grey area. Some goalies and players go that. They are not a grinder, but not a elite goal scorer. They are not a shut down or point man D, but a jack of all trades... Etc.. Etc... Etc...

A lot of Pens fans want to believe we have a elite goalie in net, because he was taken 1st overall. Guess what there are countless 1st round picks that do not make the NHL, or at best become 3rd liners or 5/6th dmen... Yes he was taken 1st overall... But be happy with the fact that we have a goalie that may not be elite but is most definitely above the average joe goalie in the league.

With that said... Last year the defense completely left him out to dry, it was insane to watch the melt down in front of him. Goalies, elite or not... should be expected to steal a game here and there depending on their skill level, but they can not do it alone except for the rare occasion that they stand on their heads and break dance... But as long as our defense plays above decent to well in front of him this year with our forward depth this year we should be able to go deep. At least to the Conference Final.

But that is all still to be seen... But thats my 2 cents on Fleury.
Yeah but what goalie is elite. IMO the NHL hasn't seen an elite goalie since prime Marty, with a great defense, or Hasek.

Sure we see great runs like Quick or Thomas but look at them before or after those runs. They're very good most of the time, great sometimes and have some clunkers... just like MAF.

Fully agree with the defense too last year. Any goalie is going to look bad when they have to try and stop pucks and worry about plays being made back door. No goalie should be expected to go side to side that much.

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05-03-2013, 05:32 AM
  #137
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MAF is interesting. Because he has an elite skill set. And he might be the most athletic goalie in the league. But he doesn't put it all together to = an elite goalie. He's just too inconsistent to get that tag. One night he's fantastic, the next he's bad.

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05-03-2013, 06:43 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by SterlingBennett View Post
Then do not call him elite. I do not. Its your opinion. My opinion is that Fleury is not elite, but above good/great... He floats in this odd grey area. Some goalies and players go that. They are not a grinder, but not a elite goal scorer. They are not a shut down or point man D, but a jack of all trades... Etc.. Etc... Etc...

A lot of Pens fans want to believe we have a elite goalie in net, because he was taken 1st overall. Guess what there are countless 1st round picks that do not make the NHL, or at best become 3rd liners or 5/6th dmen... Yes he was taken 1st overall... But be happy with the fact that we have a goalie that may not be elite but is most definitely above the average joe goalie in the league.

With that said... Last year the defense completely left him out to dry, it was insane to watch the melt down in front of him. Goalies, elite or not... should be expected to steal a game here and there depending on their skill level, but they can not do it alone except for the rare occasion that they stand on their heads and break dance... But as long as our defense plays above decent to well in front of him this year with our forward depth this year we should be able to go deep. At least to the Conference Final.

But that is all still to be seen... But thats my 2 cents on Fleury.


They did last year, the montreal series was more on him. The team didn't play bad and he gave up some killer goals while halak stood on his head.

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05-03-2013, 07:04 AM
  #139
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Fleurry is a Good goalie with moments of Eliteness with a Hall of Fame smile.

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Old
05-03-2013, 07:04 AM
  #140
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Since the Pens won't be giving Sid back for my birthday, they can at least give me a win.

And no more injuries, no matter how much the Isles run around trying to cause one.

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05-03-2013, 07:09 AM
  #141
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Fleury was outplayed by Vokoun this season. Vokoun finished with a higher SV% (16th), EVSV% (2nd) and shutout rate (1st). If you care about wins as a goalie metric (I don't), Vokoun had a slightly higher winning % as well. Aside from last season when Johnson's warranty ran out, the difference in starting and backup goaltending has been razor thin in every area except salary cap hit. He should be significantly outplaying his backups and that is my expectation of him. Calling him an above average goalie is rather generous since his numbers are practically the definition of league average goaltending and his playoff performance needs significant improvement from the past 3 seasons.

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05-03-2013, 07:15 AM
  #142
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And I think the Pens see this too. That's why they brought Vokun in in the first place.

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05-03-2013, 07:26 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by chuppa chupp View Post
Our defense was awful, but elite goalies bail out the defense every once in a while. I know that he's won a lot of games for us, including a Cup, but I never see Fleury as the type of goalie who could go on a Conn Smythe-type run. I'm still nervous with him in net.
When did you start watching the Penguins. Fleury went on a Conn Smythe type run the year before we won the cup....if we won in '08, Fleury would have been a top candidate for it.

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05-03-2013, 07:30 AM
  #144
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Fleury was outplayed by Vokoun this season. Vokoun finished with a higher SV% (16th), EVSV% (2nd) and shutout rate (1st). If you care about wins as a goalie metric (I don't), Vokoun had a slightly higher winning % as well. Aside from last season when Johnson's warranty ran out, the difference in starting and backup goaltending has been razor thin in every area except salary cap hit. He should be significantly outplaying his backups and that is my expectation of him. Calling him an above average goalie is rather generous since his numbers are practically the definition of league average goaltending and his playoff performance needs significant improvement from the past 3 seasons.
I think that after watching the two of them play this season it's kind of disingenuous to say that Vokoun outplayed Fleury and just base it on stats. Fleury was pretty consistently solid all year long and Vokoun had some monstrous games and some really, really ****** ones. He was so bad for a period of time that some people here (the melodramatic ones, given) actually wanted the Pens to cut him loose.

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05-03-2013, 07:31 AM
  #145
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I'm pretty sure I'd rather read Crafton and I be immature than another Fleury argument, especially when he's coming off of a shutout.

The guy may be the most-athletically gifted goalie in the NHL. Any problem(s) he may have - and he has a few - are between the ears. As Cole has harped on all year, when he keeps it simple, he's really, really good. Hopefully he can continue to do that as the playoffs move forward.

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05-03-2013, 07:32 AM
  #146
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Fleury was outplayed by Vokoun this season. Vokoun finished with a higher SV% (16th), EVSV% (2nd) and shutout rate (1st). If you care about wins as a goalie metric (I don't), Vokoun had a slightly higher winning % as well. Aside from last season when Johnson's warranty ran out, the difference in starting and backup goaltending has been razor thin in every area except salary cap hit. He should be significantly outplaying his backups and that is my expectation of him. Calling him an above average goalie is rather generous since his numbers are practically the definition of league average goaltending and his playoff performance needs significant improvement from the past 3 seasons.
Haha, I was wondering when someone was going to bring up that 'Vokoun had a better save % so he outplayed Fleury' crud. No, he didnt.

And its not uncommon for back up goalies to have stats equal or even slightly better than the starter. Dave percentage etc. is more of a team stat that people want to admit and backup goalies get their games cherry picked and don't have to deal with the workload. But despite that, there is no way Vokoun outplayed Fleury this season.

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05-03-2013, 07:32 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Fleury was outplayed by Vokoun this season. Vokoun finished with a higher SV% (16th), EVSV% (2nd) and shutout rate (1st). If you care about wins as a goalie metric (I don't), Vokoun had a slightly higher winning % as well. Aside from last season when Johnson's warranty ran out, the difference in starting and backup goaltending has been razor thin in every area except salary cap hit. He should be significantly outplaying his backups and that is my expectation of him. Calling him an above average goalie is rather generous since his numbers are practically the definition of league average goaltending and his playoff performance needs significant improvement from the past 3 seasons.
Vokoun didn´t really outplay him. Both have been very solid this season. All Fleury needs is a team playing decent defense around him.

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05-03-2013, 07:37 AM
  #148
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Gave my ticket tonight to my friend's 8 year old godson who is a big Pens fan but has never gotten to see a playoff game. I'm pretty awesome.

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05-03-2013, 07:38 AM
  #149
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Gave my ticket tonight to my friend's 8 year old godson who is a big Pens fan but has never gotten to see a playoff game. I'm pretty awesome.
wtf woman. WTF.

Bad life decision there. Now you'll have to hang out in the GDT with us.

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05-03-2013, 07:40 AM
  #150
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Why did this thread turn into a Flower thread? Have faith in your team... especially the goalie who as done nothing at all in the first game to have anyone worry... Had a bad series last year... as did the entire team. Get over it. How is it that every person and announcer/analyzer believes that Flower is one of the best goalies in the league and can move and make saves in ways most goalies can't, but fans of his own team keep giving him crap like every single goal is his fault and doesn't fall on the defense too?

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