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Martin Havlat 5/1 [Video]

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05-10-2013, 01:41 AM
  #151
Hatrick Marleau
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Havlat has booted more great scoring chances that Mike Grier on a the top line with Joe Thornton. Add the fact that he has built zero chemistry with anyone on this team and you get a player who has severely underperformed imo.
Havlat works well with Couture and Marleau. Putting him with Thirnton was a bad idea since they both are playmakers.

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05-10-2013, 02:21 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Hypothetical: If the Wild offered Setoguchi strait up for Havlat, would you say yes?
Hell no. Seto's not good.

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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Havlat has booted more great scoring chances that Mike Grier on a the top line with Joe Thornton. Add the fact that he has built zero chemistry with anyone on this team and you get a player who has severely underperformed imo.
No he hasn't. But besides, that was a stupid line combination. You don't put the only two playmakers in our top-6 on the same ****ing line. Havlat works perfectly with Couture and Marleau. That's where he belongs.

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05-10-2013, 03:30 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Hell no. Seto's not good.



No he hasn't. But besides, that was a stupid line combination. You don't put the only two playmakers in our top-6 on the same ****ing line. Havlat works perfectly with Couture and Marleau. That's where he belongs.
A HEALTHY Havlat sure does, that is not my debate.. My rant on Marty all started when a good portion of you started calling on trading Boyle this summer because he was:

getting old
lost a step
too much $$ for an aging 36yr old
trade him while he has value

Burns isnt coming back to the D. So with that in mind you dont move your heart and soul guy Dman(Boyle)who gives 100% every game and is not an injury liability. Boyle oozes shark blood, cant see him going anywhere. Just because he's "lost a step" or his point production dropped from .8 to .6 doesnt bother me. Other guys are stepping up and can fill that void. He makes the Sharks better.

Havlat should be the one moved if anybody is going somewhere was my point all along. We all know why

Ask yourself, does this team beat Vancouver with Boyle out of the line-up the whole series instead of Havlat??? I dont believe so.

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05-10-2013, 08:22 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
A HEALTHY Havlat sure does, that is not my debate.. My rant on Marty all started when a good portion of you started calling on trading Boyle this summer because he was:

getting old
lost a step
too much $$ for an aging 36yr old
trade him while he has value

Burns isnt coming back to the D. So with that in mind you dont move your heart and soul guy Dman(Boyle)who gives 100% every game and is not an injury liability. Boyle oozes shark blood, cant see him going anywhere. Just because he's "lost a step" or his point production dropped from .8 to .6 doesnt bother me. Other guys are stepping up and can fill that void. He makes the Sharks better.

Havlat should be the one moved if anybody is going somewhere was my point all along. We all know why

Ask yourself, does this team beat Vancouver with Boyle out of the line-up the whole series instead of Havlat??? I dont believe so.
No you don't move Boyle because of that. You move Boyle because he's still aging, he's still lost a step, and he's still the one that has value. Your assumption that Burns isn't going back to D is just that...an assumption. Nobody actually knows yet so if you're allowed to have the opinion of moving Havlat, others are allowed to have the opinion that it's still a possibility to move Burns back to D.

And yes, I wholeheartedly believe that if someone else is given Boyle's time and opportunities, that they can replace his production. Hell, Burns could've done everything that Boyle did.

Havlat's not going to get the team anything on the trade market. Boyle can. Besides that, DW has only asked someone to waive their clause if they're on their last year and it's at the deadline. Besides, his value isn't enough to bring anything in that's useful so hoping that he gets healthy and does something is still the better bet.

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05-10-2013, 09:05 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Hypothetical: If the Wild offered Setoguchi strait up for Havlat, would you say yes?
No I wouldn't. Seto is still too hot/cold.

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05-10-2013, 09:14 AM
  #156
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Even if you trade havlat (not going to happen) it really doesn't change anything with Boyle, you still end up trading him to take advantage of an excellent draft and dump a huge contract you do not eant

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05-10-2013, 12:38 PM
  #157
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This back-and-forth about Havlat or no Havlat is absurd. You guys realize that don't you? Just checking ...

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05-10-2013, 12:44 PM
  #158
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@KKurzCSN 1m

Demers and Havlat both on the ice in full gear with #SJSharks strength coach this morning. Demers certainly looks closer than Havlat

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05-10-2013, 12:52 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
@KKurzCSN 1m

Demers and Havlat both on the ice in full gear with #SJSharks strength coach this morning. Demers certainly looks closer than Havlat
This is at least kind of promising.

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05-10-2013, 12:54 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
@KKurzCSN 1m

Demers and Havlat both on the ice in full gear with #SJSharks strength coach this morning. Demers certainly looks closer than Havlat
There is hope Havlat will be back for round two.

I think Demers will be back for sure.

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05-10-2013, 01:09 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
No you don't move Boyle because of that. You move Boyle because he's still aging, he's still lost a step, and he's still the one that has value. Your assumption that Burns isn't going back to D is just that...an assumption. Nobody actually knows yet so if you're allowed to have the opinion of moving Havlat, others are allowed to have the opinion that it's still a possibility to move Burns back to D.

And yes, I wholeheartedly believe that if someone else is given Boyle's time and opportunities, that they can replace his production. Hell, Burns could've done everything that Boyle did.

Havlat's not going to get the team anything on the trade market. Boyle can. Besides that, DW has only asked someone to waive their clause if they're on their last year and it's at the deadline. Besides, his value isn't enough to bring anything in that's useful so hoping that he gets healthy and does something is still the better bet.
So if Burns could have done what Boyle did then who does what Burns did at F1? When you move Burns back to D who replaces his production at F1?? You say you are willing to give someone else an opportunity to take Boyle's time and opportunity but you dont apply that logic to Havlat's situation. All you guys say is "who replaces Havlat". So I say "who replaces Boyle"? We sign Ian White then I could see DW trying to move Boyle, other than that no way he is moved, imo..His skill set is too important. And the return for Havlat doesnt matter,get what you can, just like Murray and Clowe, remember those trades??
"Sharks will be lucky to get a 7th" and "no way DW gets anything for these guys" was this boards mantra..

And yet still no reply to my question of whether the Sharks win the Vanc Series with a healthy Havlat and an injured Boyle... Truth stings alittle....

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05-10-2013, 01:15 PM
  #162
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If Havlat comes back, that makes TMac's job a lot easier on choosing who to sit.

If Burish were healthy, there would be a good chance he'd sit Sheppard and not one of Burish/Desjardins.

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05-10-2013, 01:16 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
So if Burns could have done what Boyle did then who does what Burns did at F1? When you move Burns back to D who replaces his production at F1?? You say you are willing to give someone else an opportunity to take Boyle's time and opportunity but you dont apply that logic to Havlat's situation. All you guys say is "who replaces Havlat". So I say "who replaces Boyle"? We sign Ian White then I could see DW trying to move Boyle, other than that no way he is moved, imo..His skill set is too important. And the return for Havlat doesnt matter,get what you can, just like Murray and Clowe, remember those trades??
"Sharks will be lucky to get a 7th" and "no way DW gets anything for these guys" was this boards mantra..

And yet still no reply to my question of whether the Sharks win the Vanc Series with a healthy Havlat and an injured Boyle... Truth stings alittle....
Yeah, I think they would. Not in 4 though.

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05-10-2013, 01:18 PM
  #164
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Boyle was a relative non-factor in the series, to be frank. Contributed very little at even-strength and wasn't even that good on the PP, it was all Thornton and Couture there.

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05-10-2013, 01:21 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Boyle was a relative non-factor in the series, to be frank. Contributed very little at even-strength and wasn't even that good on the PP, it was all Thornton and Couture there.
I think the Sharks would have won regardless, but it's not really fair to call him a non-factor. I thought he played pretty poorly defensively, but his goal and assists were very important. Primary assist for Couture's tying goal in Game 1, GWG in Game 1, primary assist for Marleau's tying goal in Game 2, secondary assist (helped on the zone entry) for Marleau's series winning goal.

It's a dumb comparison though (saying would we have won without Boyle but with Havlat). You can't just swap players and ask what the results would be. Hockey isn't that simple, especially considering they play two completely different roles. That's probably why people didn't reply to the question. No offense, but it's a very stupid question.

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05-10-2013, 01:24 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I think the Sharks would have won irregardless, but it's not really fair to call him a non-factor. I thought he played pretty poorly defensively, but his goal and assists were very important. Primary assist for Couture's tying goal in Game 1, GWG in Game 1, primary assist for Marleau's tying goal in Game 2, secondary assist (helped on the zone entry) for Marleau's series winning goal.
Fixed that for ya!

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05-10-2013, 01:34 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Fixed that for ya!

They mean the same thing, regardless is actually the preferred word.

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05-10-2013, 01:38 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I think the Sharks would have won regardless, but it's not really fair to call him a non-factor. I thought he played pretty poorly defensively, but his goal and assists were very important. Primary assist for Couture's tying goal in Game 1, GWG in Game 1, primary assist for Marleau's tying goal in Game 2, secondary assist (helped on the zone entry) for Marleau's series winning goal.

It's a dumb comparison though (saying would we have won without Boyle but with Havlat). You can't just swap players and ask what the results would be. Hockey isn't that simple, especially considering they play two completely different roles. That's probably why people didn't reply to the question. No offense, but it's a very stupid question.
no offense taken. I used that analogy because most want Boyle gone. Maybe the better question would have been are the Sharks better or worse without Boyle irregardless of the series. Sharks are a worse team without Boyle. Sharks are still a very good team without Havlat.

What are you basing Boyles poor defensive on??

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05-10-2013, 01:38 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Hell no. Seto's not good.



No he hasn't. But besides, that was a stupid line combination. You don't put the only two playmakers in our top-6 on the same ****ing line. Havlat works perfectly with Couture and Marleau. That's where he belongs.
I guess what I am saying is, would you rather have a very good 2nd line winger who is so often injured, or a lower-end second liner plus 2 million in cap space.

No question that even considering their cap hits, Havlat is better than Seto.

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05-10-2013, 01:41 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
They mean the same thing, regardless is actually the preferred word.
I put it in Tmac language so everyone can understand.

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05-10-2013, 01:46 PM
  #171
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I put it in Tmac language so everyone can understand.
Its all part of the pro-cess.

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05-10-2013, 01:47 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
no offense taken. I used that analogy because most want Boyle gone. Maybe the better question would have been are the Sharks better or worse without Boyle irregardless of the series. Sharks are a worse team without Boyle. Sharks are still a very good team without Havlat.
We'll have to disagree there. Sharks are definitely a worse team without Boyle, but they are also a worse team without Havlat. Without either of them, they'd still be a good team, but they wouldn't be a cup contender.

I think most of us are okay with trading Boyle because he's seems easier to replace and he has more value. We already have players that we know can step into an NHL roster (Tennyson has looked good, Demers has shown he can play well with more ice-time), and we can sign a guy like Ian White who really isn't much of a downgrade from what Boyle brought this season. By trading Boyle and signing a guy like Ian White for like 2.5-3.5 million, you get value from Boyle, you get save 3 million in cap-space, and you don't get much worse.

Havlat is different. We have no one who can step into the Top-6, he doesn't have much value with his injury history and clause, and he's harder to replace. The only two UFAs I can think of would be Ribeiro and Roy. Both of them will probably cost as much as Havlat is making right now (Ribeiro maybe more), and you get a downgrade in skill. Plus there is no guarantee that they will sign here. Even if Ian White doesn't sign here, we have defensemen who can step into an NHL role. We have no forwards who can step into the Top-6.

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05-10-2013, 02:00 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
We'll have to disagree there. Sharks are definitely a worse team without Boyle, but they are also a worse team without Havlat. Without either of them, they'd still be a good team, but they wouldn't be a cup contender.

I think most of us are okay with trading Boyle because he's seems easier to replace and he has more value. We already have players that we know can step into an NHL roster (Tennyson has looked good, Demers has shown he can play well with more ice-time), and we can sign a guy like Ian White who really isn't much of a downgrade from what Boyle brought this season. By trading Boyle and signing a guy like Ian White for like 2.5-3.5 million, you get value from Boyle, you get save 3 million in cap-space, and you don't get much worse.

Havlat is different. We have no one who can step into the Top-6, he doesn't have much value with his injury history and clause, and he's harder to replace. The only two UFAs I can think of would be Ribeiro and Roy. Both of them will probably cost as much as Havlat is making right now (Ribeiro maybe more), and you get a downgrade in skill. Plus there is no guarantee that they will sign here. Even if Ian White doesn't sign here, we have defensemen who can step into an NHL role. We have no forwards who can step into the Top-6.
Ya but TMAC's track record playing the young Dmen says otherwise. How many times did us fans chirp about his bizzaro choices on the back end?

And again I agree if you can get I. White THEN trade Boyle. Said that weeks ago

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05-10-2013, 02:19 PM
  #174
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Boyle was a non-factor this series?

People who think Ian White is a valid Boyle replacement.

White was snubbed by the org, he will not be signing here voluntarily.

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05-10-2013, 02:29 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by lsx View Post
Boyle was a non-factor this series?

People who think Ian White is a valid Boyle replacement.

White was snubbed by the org, he will not be signing here voluntarily.
Boyle was definitely a factor but he had some positives and negatives. He was sheltered at even strength and didn't really provide much there and that was with Thornton's line most of the time against Kesler's.

I agree with you about Ian White in the sense that he's not signing back here. That ship has sailed and although I like the player, it's not going to happen. Besides, we have enough players on the back end that it can be done. We already have relegated Boyle this year to a second pairing position with Vlasic-Braun going against the top lines. Demers can fill that role and if he's given the top unit power play time that Boyle gets, he'd certainly see a significant rise in production.

If Boyle was able to get us a forward of Havlat's skill set, I'd be okay with dumping him but at his age, that's unlikely. We'd need a play-making F2 type forward to make it worth pursuing.

And FF, Burns is not an F1 on that line. That's Galiardi's job. Burns is an F3 and most any type of goal scorer can do that role.

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