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Martin Havlat 5/1 [Video]

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Old
05-10-2013, 02:40 PM
  #176
FeedingFrenzy
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Originally Posted by lsx View Post
Boyle was a non-factor this series?

People who think Ian White is a valid Boyle replacement.

White was snubbed by the org, he will not be signing here voluntarily.
I thought DW gave him the option to get a better deal with more cash? Detroit gave him more than DW was willing to pay, thats what i thought atleast..

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05-10-2013, 02:49 PM
  #177
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Pretty sure no one wanted to sign White and he had to accept Detroit's lowball offer. The draw was he would get to play with Lidstrom and increase his stock.

Unfortunately Lidstrom retired and now White's a consistent healthy scratch, so his value has dropped since then.

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05-10-2013, 03:12 PM
  #178
Tkachuk4MVP
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I put it in Tmac language so everyone can understand.

Haha, alright I'm with you now.

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05-10-2013, 03:16 PM
  #179
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Ian White sucks now. Why do people want him?

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05-10-2013, 04:23 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Hell no. Seto's not good.



No he hasn't. But besides, that was a stupid line combination. You don't put the only two playmakers in our top-6 on the same ****ing line. Havlat works perfectly with Couture and Marleau. That's where he belongs.
Not sure any of that is true. It looks to me like Havlats production issues have far more to do with his incomplete skill set and inherent inconsistency than who he is with. But maybe that simply is because of a cryptic debilitating injury every 3 games and a catastrophic one every 20. And Setoguchi, who was maddening in his streakiness is a paradigm of consistency next to Havlat.

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05-11-2013, 09:28 AM
  #181
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SJ defense does need a top rated stud Dman. Burns was brought in to fill that role. If Burns does fill that role, another hole opens up on forward lines.

Why does SJ have to have a stud Dman? Well, if they wanna win a Cup they do. Name me a team that has won a Cup recently w?out one of these beasts. Maybe Carolina, and that's about it.

Bottom line is, Boyle is no longer a stud Dman. Burns could so it but he is needed as a forward. So a stud Dman needs to be brought in.

Demers is not a stud Dman and wont be for many yrs. Vlasic is not it. Apart from the issue that these beasts don't grow on trees, there is also the issue of freeing up cap space to get one.

Which is where Boyle comes in. If Boyle is let go, he should not be replaced by a 3 million dollar guy like White. He needs to be replaced by someone who makes almost as much cash as he does, and is a bona fide stud.

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05-11-2013, 10:18 AM
  #182
FeedingFrenzy
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
SJ defense does need a top rated stud Dman. Burns was brought in to fill that role. If Burns does fill that role, another hole opens up on forward lines.

Why does SJ have to have a stud Dman? Well, if they wanna win a Cup they do. Name me a team that has won a Cup recently w?out one of these beasts. Maybe Carolina, and that's about it.

Bottom line is, Boyle is no longer a stud Dman. Burns could so it but he is needed as a forward. So a stud Dman needs to be brought in.

Demers is not a stud Dman and wont be for many yrs. Vlasic is not it. Apart from the issue that these beasts don't grow on trees, there is also the issue of freeing up cap space to get one.

Which is where Boyle comes in. If Boyle is let go, he should not be replaced by a 3 million dollar guy like White. He needs to be replaced by someone who makes almost as much cash as he does, and is a bona fide stud.
ya Boyle woke up and just sucked this year, cant skate, to slow, over the hill
57-58-50-48 point totals the last 4 years, last 2 you can blame on any number of factors. Point being he is still an elite PMD.

Where are you finding this STUD dman??? Who is this masked man??

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05-11-2013, 10:53 AM
  #183
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simple. move boyle to forward. burns back to D

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05-11-2013, 10:56 AM
  #184
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Considering our D played so well in the Vancouver series against the Sedins, I'm not so sure that we need ONE STUD d-man, I think having a host of strong Defensemen works just as well

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05-11-2013, 12:29 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
ya Boyle woke up and just sucked this year, cant skate, to slow, over the hill
57-58-50-48 point totals the last 4 years, last 2 you can blame on any number of factors. Point being he is still an elite PMD.

Where are you finding this STUD dman??? Who is this masked man??
The point is the last two years he has not been an elite PMD and he's not going to get any younger and improve. Chances are he is only going to get worse. And he is already starting to get sheltered from what he once was able to handle.

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05-11-2013, 01:48 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by sharklife25 View Post
Considering our D played so well in the Vancouver series against the Sedins, I'm not so sure that we need ONE STUD d-man, I think having a host of strong Defensemen works just as well
Stud dman is not needed to beat Canucks and win one round, he is needed to win a Cup. Only recent Cup winner team I can think of that had several decent Dmen and no one stud was Carolina.

Can you think of another?

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05-11-2013, 01:51 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
ya Boyle woke up and just sucked this year, cant skate, to slow, over the hill
57-58-50-48 point totals the last 4 years, last 2 you can blame on any number of factors. Point being he is still an elite PMD.

Where are you finding this STUD dman??? Who is this masked man??
We're not discussing what he has done last 4 yrs. What is he doing this PO's and what will he do next yr?

OK, if you think you can win Cup with this defense corps and this Boyle, keep em and do nothing.

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05-11-2013, 03:26 PM
  #188
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Vlasic is basically our stud defenseman. He's been put with so many people over the years and as long as he's with a guy who has relatively good puckmoving skills then that pairing turns into our de facto shut down pairing.

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05-11-2013, 06:26 PM
  #189
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So who else thinks Havlat's going to miss game one against CHI/LA? Because I really hope he finds his bits and pieces ASAP. Last I heard he wasn't even on the ice in their most recent practice... But I guess Demers was on the ice for 30min...? Seriously Bieksa wrecked Havlat I think.


^^^ Marc-Eduard les "stud"!

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05-11-2013, 06:34 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
We're not discussing what he has done last 4 yrs. What is he doing this PO's and what will he do next yr?

OK, if you think you can win Cup with this defense corps and this Boyle, keep em and do nothing.
For Christ's sake, he's PPG and fifth on the team through the first series, and his points were integral to the the wins, what more do you expect?

Boyle isn't paid the big bucks to be great defensively, he's no Vlasic, and never has been. He's integral to the team because he consistently can move the puck up the ice and into the offensive zone whether it be from his very accurate and timely passes, or simply out-skating the opponent through the neutral zone. He's also quite important to the power play, this team would not be nearly successful as they are on special teams without him being the quarterback at the point.

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05-11-2013, 06:54 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by lsx View Post
For Christ's sake, he's PPG and fifth on the team through the first series, and his points were integral to the the wins, what more do you expect?

Boyle isn't paid the big bucks to be great defensively, he's no Vlasic, and never has been. He's integral to the team because he consistently can move the puck up the ice and into the offensive zone whether it be from his very accurate and timely passes, or simply out-skating the opponent through the neutral zone. He's also quite important to the power play, this team would not be nearly successful as they are on special teams without him being the quarterback at the point.
well put..you just dont trade 50pt dmen and then say Demers or braun could replace those points next year.

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05-11-2013, 07:03 PM
  #192
lsx
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
well put..you just dont trade 50pt dmen and then say Demers or braun could replace those points next year.
It makes my head hurt when people say that, like somehow there's a limit to how many points are spread among the dmen each year and Boyle is stealing them all so nobody else can get them....but hey, remove him and all of a sudden those guys that don't put up any points will suddenly be turned into point machines.

If they are capable of stepping up and generating offense, they will do it. Boyle isn't holding a knife to their throats and threatening to slice if they step into his territory.

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05-11-2013, 07:20 PM
  #193
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boyle was a non-factor?

news to me

4 points in 4 games. and a +1.

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05-11-2013, 09:48 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by lsx View Post
It makes my head hurt when people say that, like somehow there's a limit to how many points are spread among the dmen each year and Boyle is stealing them all so nobody else can get them....but hey, remove him and all of a sudden those guys that don't put up any points will suddenly be turned into point machines.

If they are capable of stepping up and generating offense, they will do it. Boyle isn't holding a knife to their throats and threatening to slice if they step into his territory.
You're being disingenuous if you believe that someone stepping into the opportunities that Boyle gets here doesn't become a beneficiary with regards to producing points. That's simply how it works, especially for PMD's.

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05-11-2013, 10:45 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
You're being disingenuous if you believe that someone stepping into the opportunities that Boyle gets here doesn't become a beneficiary with regards to producing points. That's simply how it works, especially for PMD's.
The question is how many points?

San Jose has gotten burned by having high expectations for young players in the past...

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05-11-2013, 11:49 PM
  #196
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we have a stud d man, his name is vlasic

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05-12-2013, 12:51 AM
  #197
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I don't feel like navigating through the ridiculousness of the past couple pages on this thread.

Does anyone have anything to update about when Havlat might be back?

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05-12-2013, 02:00 AM
  #198
lsx
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
You're being disingenuous if you believe that someone stepping into the opportunities that Boyle gets here doesn't become a beneficiary with regards to producing points. That's simply how it works, especially for PMD's.
When you get another dman running the second powerplay unit at anywhere near the production of the first, then you might have a leg to stand on with that argument. Simple fact of the matter is that no other dman on this team has shown the kind of ability that Boyle has. Boyle's minutes have been reduced, and other guys are stepping up to take the minutes, if what you're saying is true, then there's no excuse for them not also showing up on the stat sheet in 5v5 play or on the 2nd PP unit. Believe me, I'd love to see this team have two capable PMD's that can also run the PP, but the only other one that might be capable is Demers who hardly plays, and is quite a bit worse than even Boyle defensively. He also has a tendency to make poor pinches at the blue line.

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05-12-2013, 02:54 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by lsx View Post
When you get another dman running the second powerplay unit at anywhere near the production of the first, then you might have a leg to stand on with that argument. Simple fact of the matter is that no other dman on this team has shown the kind of ability that Boyle has. Boyle's minutes have been reduced, and other guys are stepping up to take the minutes, if what you're saying is true, then there's no excuse for them not also showing up on the stat sheet in 5v5 play or on the 2nd PP unit. Believe me, I'd love to see this team have two capable PMD's that can also run the PP, but the only other one that might be capable is Demers who hardly plays, and is quite a bit worse than even Boyle defensively. He also has a tendency to make poor pinches at the blue line.
Using the second power play unit as a measure of anything is just silly. You put Boyle on that unit and his production tanks on the power play, it's that bad. It's not the d-men's fault that they don't have a 2nd unit that is consistent, much less have the talent, and much less have the experience with each other in game or in practice to mesh with each other to make it work.

There are plenty of 'excuses' for a 2nd unit PP not working. You don't see Burns' production going up do you? Unless you're prepared to say he's a horrible producer of offense now.

As for Demers, he's actually equal to Boyle defensively because people like you give him far too much credit for his defensive work. They're both average at best except Demers has a chance to get better. If you think Boyle doesn't make poor pinches, you're not watching him closely enough...he does it too.

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05-12-2013, 02:55 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Stud dman is not needed to beat Canucks and win one round, he is needed to win a Cup. Only recent Cup winner team I can think of that had several decent Dmen and no one stud was Carolina.

Can you think of another?
Maybe not to win, but definitely don't need one to reach the finals. NJ last year, Van before that. Pittsburg both years. Senators before that.

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