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Phoenix LXXVI: Renaissance Men

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05-07-2013, 03:01 AM
  #276
Glacial
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
It was an amusing episode... of our lives.
Episode? This saga's been an entire series. It may even spawn spinoffs if the team relocates and legal action is launched against certain former Glendale parties and the NHL or Bettman.

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He sits in HIS office...



Source: http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/we...et-a-new-look/

Fare thee well! (all who enter)
That was a real photo? It looked so comical. I guess Glendale really is far out there on that rough suburban frontier as people say it is. Covered wagons can't make it to the game on time from the East Valley or from the village of Phoenix up north. That looks like the picture of someone you don't want to get on the wrong side of, lest your head end up mounted on the wall.

So, the NHL backed off out of a city council meeting when they saw Mr. Elk Heads was asking some questions, questions they didn't want to have to answer? Why am I not surprised? Is the NHL going to quietly give up and not even petition the City Council for an AMF? (i.e. an anti-climactic series finale)

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05-07-2013, 03:21 AM
  #277
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If the group has raised that kind of money (and it seems very plausible given the key players in this group) then the front end is done. Remember, on top of the $240MM, you can also get a line of credit and borrow against the franchise. The question then becomes is the back end subsidy and out clause agreeable.

I personally think the NHL leaked the ($240MM) dollar amount to put all of the pressure squarely back on Glendale. We have found solvent owners, we have a deal to sell the team and all it will take to close the deal is an agreement with you.

Say what you want about Bettman but at every turn, he maximizes the cards he has been dealt.
Glendale was told Jamison had the money and look how that turned out...

Fool Glendale once, shame on you.
Fool Glendale twice, shame on Glendale.
Fool Glendale four years running, shame on all of us for another year.

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05-07-2013, 05:46 AM
  #278
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This is a business forum, for legitimate business discussions only.
elk beads are surprisingly actually a thing

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05-07-2013, 05:53 AM
  #279
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Pressuring Glendale to pay up is like hoping for bags of shredded paper for recycling. The larger the AMF the more likely the default. Their general fund balance is miniscule.

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05-07-2013, 06:00 AM
  #280
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Pressuring Glendale to pay up is like hoping for bags of shredded paper for recycling. The larger the AMF the more likely the default. Their general fund balance is miniscule.
There's Moody's watching the whole thing. A single mouse click, and they can increase the costs of the city's financial obligations.

Also, maybe there's never been a meeting scheduled.

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05-07-2013, 07:17 AM
  #281
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Yup... I think we are going to find out rather soon if the word.... Capitulate..... Is in Jerry's vocabulary.
It's more complicated now than for the previous mayor and council, because the current mayor and council members don't have a city administrator that is blithely hiding the financial implications of a large subsidy to the Coyotes. Previously, if city council wanted to fork over large amounts of money to the NHL or a prospective owner, the city manager just pretended that they could do this without affecting the overall budget or services. He would propose some magical CFD that would pay massive subsidies, even though it was entirely impractical. Or, he cooked up some bond issue to pay $100 million for parking rights. Meanwhile, he and city staffers were quietly (and inappropriately) transferring money from one of their trust funds to the general fund to literally paper over operating deficits (http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...fers-fund.html).

Those days are gone, along with the city staffers that came up with the schemes and smoke and mirrors.

Now, if they want to offer an AMF that goes much beyond $6 million their city manager and staff are going to tell them "there is no money", and then ask them which "surgical" cuts to the budget they will choose to pay the Coyotes owner. They have already had to cut fire protection services because "there is no money". Bond rating agencies have shown their concern by down-grading their bonds, and threaten further downgrades if Glendale doesn't show more fiscal prudence and address their structural deficit. I'm not sure if the NHL realizes it yet, but they will be negotiating with a mayor and council that not only has new faces, but a group that is facing new financial and political realities.

By failing to find a bona fide owner and helping the COG out with a break on the franchise sale price over the past four years, the NHL has literally let the goose that was prepared to lay the golden eggs retire.

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05-07-2013, 07:35 AM
  #282
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The time has come for this current council to understand the situation factually. They also need to understand that whether the Coyotes stay or go there is a substantial bill to be paid. Having the Coyotes as an anchor tenant helps the situation not hurt it. It guarantees 40+ nights of activity at Westgate and its attendant sales tax revenues. Surely they realize the significance of that and how much it helps their bottom line. Losing the Coyotes and going it alone on managing the arena, no matter how convinced they are that it will work is a recipe for further financial disaster. -JClark

That fish really swallowed the whole hook, worm and lead. She so firmly believes that paying 15m$ to save 3m$ is a good investment it almost makes me a believer too....
Try being a CPA and having to tell people over and over that no, losing $1 so you can save $0.25 in taxes as a "writeoff" is not a good idea. And no, getting a huge tax refund from your 1040 does not mean that the government is "giving you money!". It means you are getting the rest of your money that they held all year because you can't operate a simple W-4 withholding form.


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05-07-2013, 07:37 AM
  #283
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It's more complicated now than for the previous mayor and council, because the current mayor and council members don't have a city administrator that is blithely hiding the financial implications of a large subsidy to the Coyotes. Previously, if city council wanted to fork over large amounts of money to the NHL or a prospective owner, the city manager just pretended that they could do this without affecting the overall budget or services. He would propose some magical CFD that would pay massive subsidies, even though it was entirely impractical. Or, he cooked up some bond issue to pay $100 million for parking rights. Meanwhile, he and city staffers were quietly (and inappropriately) transferring money from one of their trust funds to the general fund to literally paper over operating deficits (http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...fers-fund.html).

Those days are gone, along with the city staffers that came up with the schemes and smoke and mirrors.
The moment they started raiding the sewers money you think the state of Arizona would have stepped in and put the city into receivership.

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05-07-2013, 07:43 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
It's more complicated now than for the previous mayor and council, because the current mayor and council members don't have a city administrator that is blithely hiding the financial implications of a large subsidy to the Coyotes. Previously, if city council wanted to fork over large amounts of money to the NHL or a prospective owner, the city manager just pretended that they could do this without affecting the overall budget or services. He would propose some magical CFD that would pay massive subsidies, even though it was entirely impractical. Or, he cooked up some bond issue to pay $100 million for parking rights. Meanwhile, he and city staffers were quietly (and inappropriately) transferring money from one of their trust funds to the general fund to literally paper over operating deficits (http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...fers-fund.html).

Those days are gone, along with the city staffers that came up with the schemes and smoke and mirrors.

Now, if they want to offer an AMF that goes much beyond $6 million their city manager and staff are going to tell them "there is no money", and then ask them which "surgical" cuts to the budget they will choose to pay the Coyotes owner. They have already had to cut fire protection services because "there is no money". Bond rating agencies have shown their concern by down-grading their bonds, and threaten further downgrades if Glendale doesn't show more fiscal prudence and address their structural deficit. I'm not sure if the NHL realizes it yet, but they will be negotiating with a mayor and council that not only has new faces, but a group that is facing new financial and political realities.

By failing to find a bona fide owner and helping the COG out with a break on the franchise sale price over the past four years, the NHL has literally let the goose that was prepared to lay the golden eggs retire.
Agreed, I think all the cards are basically on the table. Glendale can't give out more than $6M and it may be an open question of whether they should even give out $6M yearly for an AMF (depends on the issue of paying it so the stadium can eventually pay itself off, assuming the conversion of that investment doesn't stray into Clarkonomics territory of paying $15M to get back $3M). The recent fire dept cuts were showing how damaged the city is, so making further cuts to fund ice follies wouldn't be the most prudent move. It's going beyond depleting a general fund or sewer fund, it's venturing in to where these cuts may be the difference between life & death for some people. While that wouldn't phase someone like Clark, she's not on the council anymore and some on the council may not want to play the Grim Reaper.

I think your analogy isn't quite fitting. The golden egg was left to spoil (what does one expect from a saga which produced so many bad eggs?) and that goose that laid the golden egg was cooked.


I'm thinking the NHL chickened out of a meeting because their entire script/game plan had been upended based on the previous few days' revelations and they need time to come up with a new strategy or script, to try and salvage any part of their scheme. I wonder if they can even approach and ask for more than $6M. Renaissance may not even be willing to accept that.

Can someone in Arizona petition their Attorney General or some kind of watchdog to do an audit of that NHL subsidary, Arena Newco, to see how the money was misspent? If the first hundred threads (give or take) were devoted to the Coyotes, maybe the next hundred can be devoted to the investigation ensnaring former city government personnel and NHL personnel and their trials. If there is an investigation, and if there was collusion between the NHL and Beasley and maybe Tindall, oh will the heads roll. How high up does the conspiracy go? As Deep Throat said, "follow the money".


Last edited by Glacial: 05-07-2013 at 07:44 AM. Reason: typo
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05-07-2013, 07:46 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
He sits in HIS office...



Source: http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/we...et-a-new-look/

Fare thee well! (all who enter)
Am I the only one who sees that photo and starts singing:

You got to know when to hold em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
Know when to run


Perhaps Gary took those lyrics to heart...

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05-07-2013, 07:55 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
Can someone in Arizona petition their Attorney General or some kind of watchdog to do an audit of that NHL subsidary, Arena Newco, to see how the money was misspent? If the first hundred threads (give or take) were devoted to the Coyotes, maybe the next hundred can be devoted to the investigation ensnaring former city government personnel and NHL personnel and their trials. If there is an investigation, and if there was collusion between the NHL and Beasley and maybe Tindall, oh will the heads roll. How high up does the conspiracy go? As Deep Throat said, "follow the money".
I think you have a point. Why would anybody willingly and knowingly bankrupt a city if it not for some kind of direct or indirect kickback?

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05-07-2013, 08:07 AM
  #287
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I think you have a point. Why would anybody willingly and knowingly bankrupt a city if it not for some kind of direct or indirect kickback?
I don't know if the nhl was in it to the skim a few bucks off the top... I think they were just hoping a white knight would ride in and save the day, which would turn the market around and all of the sudden they have a success story out of a nightmare.

I also find it hard to believe that in today's day and age a major sports league would be dumb enough to bribe a politician.

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05-07-2013, 08:12 AM
  #288
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I don't know if the nhl was in it to the skim a few bucks off the top... I think they were just hoping a white knight would ride in and save the day, which would turn the market around and all of the sudden they have a success story out of a nightmare.

I also find it hard to believe that in today's day a major sports league would be dumb enough to bribe a politician.
Like I said the kickback could have been indirect. The question to ask is who actually made money out of this mess?

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05-07-2013, 08:16 AM
  #289
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Like I said the kickback could have been indirect. The question to ask is who actually made money out of this mess?
I think the GWI would be all over that, and the NHL knows that. Unless there was a vague promise of future employment in the Coyotes organization once things turned around. Even that would be hard to prove if enough years went by.

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05-07-2013, 08:18 AM
  #290
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So what's going on now? No announcement of moving, Seattle is no longer an option... Charges of corruption? This story would make a good novel.

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05-07-2013, 08:21 AM
  #291
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If gosbee et.al. have the money and actually want to close w/o subsidies beyond $6MM, good luck to them! Rarely, do these types of ownership partnerships end well when Capital Calls begin arriving! One owner, with tons of scratch is the only way this deal will ever work! A five year out-clause? Oh please, so these guys will present Glendale and the NHL with another problem in four years? BTW, should they be allowed to walk it may take away one of the proposed expansion sites! Do you really believe the NHL wants to give up that honey hole?

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05-07-2013, 08:29 AM
  #292
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Fwiw

Quote:
darren dreger‏@darrendreger
Tentative meeting between nhl and gosbee-iceedge postponed today. 2 sides working on yotes purchase agreement before taking deal to city.

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05-07-2013, 08:32 AM
  #293
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how is it that beasley is not in jail?

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05-07-2013, 08:34 AM
  #294
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I think the GWI would be all over that, and the NHL knows that. Unless there was a vague promise of future employment in the Coyotes organization once things turned around. Even that would be hard to prove if enough years went by.
Am thinking more locally the NHL is not gonna do anything illegal they got way bigger fish to fry. But the guy next door who own a restaurant in Westgate... Glendale spent close to half a billion in that sports district. That make for a lot of construction contract...

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Fwiw
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darren dreger‏@darrendreger
Tentative meeting between nhl and gosbee-iceedge postponed today. 2 sides working on yotes purchase agreement before taking deal to city.
Is that the city meeting that was reported postponed or is that another meeting between the NHL and buyers that got postponed?

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05-07-2013, 08:40 AM
  #295
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I have a feeling that the issues in this situation have now flipped.

Before you had the City of Glendale giving the JIG a generous AMF that was clearly a subsidy, while the JIG quite clearly did not have the funds required to purchase the team. Now you have a group that is rumoured to have the money, but now you don't have the City of Glendale wanting to give away more than $6M in an AMF.

The issues are still very real, the situation is just flipped.

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05-07-2013, 08:40 AM
  #296
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Rinse, lather, repeat...

Coyotes: New money, new ownership bid, new problems

To quote:

"The latest: Citing logistical problems, the NHL has rescheduled Tuesday’s meeting with the city of Glendale and representatives from an investor group led by Anthony LeBlanc. The parties will convene later this week.

But the league wasn’t at all happy with Monday’s front-page story in the Arizona Republic, which listed the true cost of running Jobing.com Arena at less than $6 million."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/da...-new-problems/

Fare thee well!

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05-07-2013, 08:41 AM
  #297
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When will this madness end?

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05-07-2013, 08:43 AM
  #298
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I don't think the NHL is playing this hand for the fun of it. Heck, I can't think of anything they would do for fun. There has to be a purpo$e or they would be on board.

I think if the NHL had a better option, anywhere, they wouldn't be playing footsie with the Clowns and friends and the City of Glendale in early May. If the price were right to move elsewhere, it is now time to move elsewhere.

"I'm going . . .
"I'm really going . . ."

If they lose this hand with Glendale (which looks nearly cerain), any other offers on hand will look much more attractive.

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05-07-2013, 08:45 AM
  #299
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Rinse, lather, repeat...

...

But the league wasn’t at all happy with Monday’s front-page story in the Arizona Republic, which listed the true cost of running Jobing.com Arena at less than $6 million."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/da...-new-problems/
Oh no! The truth in the newspaper apparently hurt Bettman's feelings...


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05-07-2013, 08:46 AM
  #300
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Rinse, lather, repeat...

Coyotes: New money, new ownership bid, new problems

To quote:

"The latest: Citing logistical problems, the NHL has rescheduled Tuesday’s meeting with the city of Glendale and representatives from an investor group led by Anthony LeBlanc. The parties will convene later this week.

But the league wasn’t at all happy with Monday’s front-page story in the Arizona Republic, which listed the true cost of running Jobing.com Arena at less than $6 million."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/da...-new-problems/
So "logistical problems"... is that what it's called these days when you get caught taking $25M for services that really only cost $6M. Yeah no wonder the NHL isn't happy. The potential owner sure can't milk the CoG for $15M/yr when everyone knows you only really need $6M/yr.

I wonder if the Mayor has room on one of the walls in his office for Bettman's stuffed head when this is all over.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 05-07-2013 at 08:52 AM.
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