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Phoenix LXXVI: Renaissance Men

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Old
05-07-2013, 09:49 AM
  #301
GuelphStormer
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Originally Posted by Mork View Post
I don't think the NHL is playing this hand for the fun of it. Heck, I can't think of anything they would do for fun. There has to be a purpo$e or they would be on board.

I think if the NHL had a better option, anywhere, they wouldn't be playing footsie with the Clowns and friends and the City of Glendale in early May. If the price were right to move elsewhere, it is now time to move elsewhere.

"I'm going . . .
"I'm really going . . ."

If they lose this hand with Glendale (which looks nearly cerain), any other offers on hand will look much more attractive.
i tend to agree ... if this is all for show, it isn't very well orchestrated. at this point in time, the only potential optic benefit I see is scapegating glendale. and local media seem to have taken that play off the table by revealing true costs and calling out the subsidy.

so, really, what's the point at this stage?

i get the impression that everything the nhl keeps trying to do, for whatever reason and to whatever end, keeps blowing up in their faces. embarrassing, they can't even play the blame game well.

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05-07-2013, 09:53 AM
  #302
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https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...60872584278016

"Tentative meeting between NHL and Gosbee-IceEdge postponed today. 2 sides working on Yotes purchase agreement before taking deal to city."

The mouthpiece has spoken.

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05-07-2013, 10:01 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
i tend to agree ... if this is all for show, it isn't very well orchestrated. at this point in time, the only potential optic benefit I see is scapegoating Glendale. and local media seem to have taken that play off the table by revealing true costs and calling out the subsidy.

so, really, what's the point at this stage?

i get the impression that everything the nhl keeps trying to do, for whatever reason and to whatever end, keeps blowing up in their faces. embarrassing, they can't even play the blame game well.
If the play was to raise the stake with a relocation owner and scapegoating Glendale that failed. That maybe why they won't meet with those potential buyers. The next step if it a sham the "buyers" will walk away.

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05-07-2013, 10:07 AM
  #304
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So maybe PKP really has told the NHL he's not paying any more for the Coyotes than St. Louis sold for, and the league is trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat in Glendale before begrudgingly selling to PKP for less than they want to?

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05-07-2013, 10:13 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Previously, if city council wanted to fork over large amounts of money to the NHL or a prospective owner, the city manager just pretended that they could do this without affecting the overall budget ...
Those days are gone, along with the city staffers that came up with the schemes and smoke and mirrors.
.
Say, you know what might be fun? How about if we go back to the Pollack/Hocking report and compared their projections against the statement of FY12/13 Actual

Pollack report on OPERATING COSTS FOR CITY OF GLENDALE WITH NO TEAM PRESENT forecast for 2013:
AMF: $12,000,000
Revenues on Non-Hockey Events: $1,089,880

Actual figures from SUMMARY FINANCIAL STATEMENT 2013 (6 months*)
AMF: $4,012,504
Revenues on Non-Hockey Events: $2,447,575

How could the Pollack projections be so far off in both areas? It's almost like they intentionally misrepresented the data...


* Not including January Actual

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05-07-2013, 10:15 AM
  #306
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I just find it fascinating that each side used the media to make their case for them instead of talking face to face. Glendale let the media know that $6 million really is what an AMF will cost, while the NHL let the media know they have an owner who is willing to spend up to $240 million for the Coyotes and potential loses in the first few years. It seems the NHL was the first to blink in this stare-down.

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05-07-2013, 10:15 AM
  #307
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So maybe PKP really has told the NHL he's not paying any more for the Coyotes than St. Louis sold for, and the league is trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat in Glendale before begrudgingly selling to PKP for less than they want to?
Well, if you replace St-Louis with Atlanta, then I'm on board with you. I personally laugh when I read about people saying PKP would pay up to 300m$ for an expansion team. But I don't think PKP would go as far as asking St-Louis' price when he knows Atlanta sold for 170m$.

Both the NHL and PKP need each other at this point, I doubt any one of them is gonna try to piss the other off. It'll be 170m$ give or take a few mil$. That's where I place my bet.

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05-07-2013, 10:20 AM
  #308
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If LeBlanc’s group fails, some think Chicago financier Matthew Hulsizer could work his way back into the picture. He has plenty of money, and might be amenable to a trimmed-down lease agreement.
OK, so why isn't he the front-runner then? If he has plenty of money and open to a scaled back lease agreement...

Quote:
But word is, Hulsizer has strong opinions on how his hockey team should be run. And if he gets the team, Maloney and Tippett might choose to go their separate ways.
Oh... I see.

http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/da...-new-problems/


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 05-07-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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05-07-2013, 10:24 AM
  #309
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OK, so why isn't he the front-runner then? If he has plenty of money and open to a scaled back lease agreement...
If he has plenty of money, why couldn't he close on the Blues sale?

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Hulsizer was expected to bring $40 million and Dave Checketts $20 million to the closing, with the group financing the rest of the deal. Multiple sources told the Post-Dispatch that Checketts had raised his share through a private-equity fund, but Hulsizer has failed to secure his portion of the equity.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...6864f2462.html

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05-07-2013, 10:24 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
So maybe PKP really has told the NHL he's not paying any more for the Coyotes than St. Louis sold for, and the league is trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat in Glendale before begrudgingly selling to PKP for less than they want to?
Wait what? No!

He obviously hasn't been contacted by the NHL beyond being told to ''be ready''.

That's how the NHL works. They'll try anything and everything to save the Yotes before moving them. And then the question will be WHERE they'll end up.

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05-07-2013, 10:27 AM
  #311
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If he has plenty of money, why couldn't he close on the Blues sale?



http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...6864f2462.html
My apologies Jim... I often keep forgetting my sarcasm doesn't translate well online.

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05-07-2013, 10:30 AM
  #312
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My apologies Jim... I often keep forgetting my sarcasm doesn't translate well online.
No problem . It wasn't directed at you, but the people who write the articles. To me, it's pretty obvious why he isn't the leader, and it's because the NHL doesn't want to deal with him anymore. He burned them in St. Louis and they figure he doesn't have the money.

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05-07-2013, 10:31 AM
  #313
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That was a real photo?
You betcha.

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Originally Posted by JimAnchower View Post
Am I the only one who sees that photo and starts singing:
Kenny Rogers? Pretty sure the Mayor theres a fan, and nothin wrong with that. Saddle bound copies of the complete Louis L'amour collection in the den. Authentic John Browning designed Model 1866 Winchester Repeater over the fireplace (and worth a small fortune).... Yep. I had a Father-in-Law just like that. Great guy. Loved Westerns, hunting, scotch, bourbon, gin, vodka, vermouth....

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Do you really believe the NHL wants to give up that honey hole?
Beyond Southern Ontario, I dont think they look at it quite that way mesa.
Very much reactive as opposed to being proactive; no sense of "vision".

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how is it that beasley is not in jail?
When's the Audit due to be completed? June or thereabouts? Could well be some serious fallout once the full extent of his activities are brought to light... pretty much insuring the future of this Megathread from Charges through Trial, Sentencing & Appeal.

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I don't think the NHL is playing this hand for the fun of it. Heck, I can't think of anything they would do for fun. There has to be a purpo$e or they would be on board.
Its pretty obvious Phoenix simply isnt a huge priority Mork. Theyve not acted responsibly, with any sense of urgency, like a motivated vendor. They couldve sold the franchise locally ages ago through creative financing, providing terms, remaining whole throughout the process. No problem. That they havent, that theyve taken the approach that they have has shone a bright light on their own internal flaws, weaknesses, dysfunction, overarching sense of entitlement, that the law is meant to be manipulated, moulded, managed. Hardball, take no prisoners alive. Thats just the way its always been with these guys going right on back to 1917. Eddie Livingstone.... Blackballed. Driven to an early grave after years of litigation.

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05-07-2013, 10:33 AM
  #314
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Rinse, lather, repeat...

Coyotes: New money, new ownership bid, new problems

To quote:

"The latest: Citing logistical problems, the NHL has rescheduled Tuesday’s meeting with the city of Glendale and representatives from an investor group led by Anthony LeBlanc. The parties will convene later this week.

But the league wasn’t at all happy with Monday’s front-page story in the Arizona Republic, which listed the true cost of running Jobing.com Arena at less than $6 million."
It just loses SO much credibility with that name....


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05-07-2013, 10:43 AM
  #315
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Well, if you replace St-Louis with Atlanta, then I'm on board with you. I personally laugh when I read about people saying PKP would pay up to 300m$ for an expansion team. But I don't think PKP would go as far as asking St-Louis' price when he knows Atlanta sold for 170m$.

Both the NHL and PKP need each other at this point, I doubt any one of them is gonna try to piss the other off. It'll be 170m$ give or take a few mil$. That's where I place my bet.
Well I would tend to agree, but then what's the hold-up? Why go through this embarrassing charade in Glendale? Because at this point it's quite embarrassing for all involved.

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05-07-2013, 10:49 AM
  #316
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So maybe PKP really has told the NHL he's not paying any more for the Coyotes than St. Louis sold for, and the league is trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat in Glendale before begrudgingly selling to PKP for less than they want to?
I dont know, but I find that suggestion hard to believe. Frankly I think there are a few other things at play.

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Originally Posted by JimAnchower View Post
No problem . It wasn't directed at you, but the people who write the articles. To me, it's pretty obvious why he isn't the leader, and it's because the NHL doesn't want to deal with him anymore. He burned them in St. Louis and they figure he doesn't have the money.
Yet, just last week, Daly tells a media outlet "Matthew Hulsizer is a friend, so sure, if he came to us with a proposal we'd listen" or words to that affect. And I agree. The guy couldnt satisfy the BOG's over the St.Louis sale, established franchise with all kinds of goodies that came with for far less money, yet when Glendales underwriting the purchase through Bonding or pie-in-the-sky CFD projections, not only is he good enough to pass the bar but so too apparently was Ice Edge Holdings. I mean basically, with the city paying the freight, if you can breathe, your in. Absolute insanity. Surely even the NHL realizes the COG would be unable to meet their promises & obligations, that they were writing checks to the potential owner & NHL with their mouths that their butts couldnt cash? I mean, your putting your largest creditor on a path to municipal bankruptcy, and you'll never collect. Why would you do that?

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05-07-2013, 10:57 AM
  #317
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Well I would tend to agree, but then what's the hold-up? Why go through this embarrassing charade in Glendale? Because at this point it's quite embarrassing for all involved.
Well I think it is/was an attempt to save face. This team couldn't sell in 4 years even with all kinds of subsidies thrown in. So this last attempt, for me, is just for show, to show the world that the NHL did come through but that it was Glendale's fault they couldn't close.

But with yesterday's news that running the arena actually costs less than 6m$/yr, the NHL just lost face. They can't say it's Glendale's fault because Glendale is willing to pay actual costs to run the arena. So the strategy to put the blame on Glendale just backfired on them.

Now they're back in NY trying to figure a way to end this thing without looking like they're the bad guys. Unless, of course, Gosbee closes the deal for 6m$/yr and absorbs year after year of multi-millions dollars losses. But why would anyone do that? Oh yeah, to sell the team in a couple years to Toronto2 for a profit. Well I don't think the chances of that happening are really much higher than 0.

From now on, what happens is anyone's guess. But we're probably as close to "weeks not months" as we ever were.

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05-07-2013, 11:04 AM
  #318
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Well I would tend to agree, but then what's the hold-up? Why go through this embarrassing charade in Glendale? Because at this point it's quite embarrassing for all involved.
Until yesterday, the NHL may have thought there was a chance that the COG could agree to a $10-12 million (or more) subsidy. Now, it appears it is $6 million.

This delay wasn't due to a "uh oh, we have to send an intern out to a FedEx Office at midnight to update our proposal", it was "uh oh, we don't know if we have anything viable to present". There isn't a new date yet, just a vague reference to "later this week".

Either Gosbee thinks he can work with $6 million and another meeting is done or he doesn't and the NHL does to Plan B.

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05-07-2013, 11:20 AM
  #319
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In many ways the NHL's end game was solidified by the true cost of running the arena and that the arena made a profit during the lock out. None of these "buyers" had a chance without a big lease deal and almost certainly a cap on losses. Mondays revelations made it clear there is no hope in Glendale, But Glendale must be made the fall guy for the end game to conclude in Glendale and on to Quebec.

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05-07-2013, 11:27 AM
  #320
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Either Gosbee thinks he can work with $6 million and another meeting is done or he doesn't and the NHL goes to Plan B.
Purely speculating here, but Im guessing Gosbee's group would be the frontrunner due to his wealth & likely lower demands in terms of an Arena Management Fee, possible creation of a CFD etc. Hulsizer & Pastor (pretty sure Jamisons done, gone) being held in abeyance, in check if you will as their funding does fall short of the mark with expectations of further largesse from the COG. So yes, if the NHL's postponement is in reaction to what filtered out over the weekend in the media followed by Weiers & others reactions to it, then it would only be natural to take that as an inference that Gosbee's group as well may have based their bid on a grander AMF than the $6M tabled. If true, extremely foolish, and a clear cut case of building castles in the sky if ever there was one.

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05-07-2013, 11:30 AM
  #321
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So the bottom line is that Gary's going to look even more miserable at the press conference in Quebec City than he did in Winnipeg?

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05-07-2013, 11:32 AM
  #322
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So the bottom line is that Gary's going to look even more miserable at the press conference in Quebec City than he did in Winnipeg?
Does he even have a non constipated look?

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05-07-2013, 11:38 AM
  #323
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I wonder if he'll accept to take a picture with me and my Nordiques gear

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05-07-2013, 11:40 AM
  #324
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...Gary's going to look even more miserable at the press conference in Quebec City than he did in Winnipeg?
"Righting wrongs". The effervescent bubbling over of joy in Quebec will provide more than enough cover for the NHL's gross mismanagement & handling of this file for awhile. However, even with Relocation I dont think this story's over by a long shot. What we here have been aware of for years is just slowly leaking out, just the tip of the iceberg. Their will be repercussions, in Glendale with past players, for Gary Bettman & the NHL.

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05-07-2013, 11:47 AM
  #325
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Hi, I've been following this saga for the past 3 years but I've never wrote on hfboard.. since I'm from Quebec I always tought that anything I would say could/would be interpreted as biased. But what's happening in the last couple of weeks is just to much for me not to react.


This looks so much like public negociation to me. The same thing happened to PKP when he was trying to close a deal with the city here for the new arena's management contract. Out of nowhere, several new potential buisiness were suddenly interested (more like 1, Bell/Evenco) in managing the arena, until PKP put more money on the table and finally close the deal, with all the drama it caused here since it didn't go trough a RFP process.


Now that the rumors were growing stronger toward a relocation in the last couple of weeks (remember the weird PKP gigglings), again out of nowhere several magical groups, with even more money then needed, get in the picture! Just at the time where Seatle no longer looks like a short term solution. Sure they weren't there for the last 4 years or even when Jamisson won the 300m jackpot and couldn't find a penny. Not only to they have the 170m, they have 240m!! Sure they didn't showed up when Jamisson was desespered to find money (I guess they didn't like the guy) and that the new city counsil were telling that they wont give the same deal again.. sure just wait until the deal expires so you can get a worst one!


But the funny thing is that the NHL is actually telling us that, publicly! I mean, the NHL is "normaly" more silent than the mafia. But not this time.. no! They have so much buyers and money that they really want all of us to know and are using their official mouth pieces for that matter. Hey, we even knew the dates of their "secret" meeting with Glendale! When Jamisson was in the picture, it took everything to get a "Hi" from the guy in that strange press conference during last year's playoff.


The way I see it, if I were PKP, why would I pay more than Winnipeg paid? Specially when it looks like I'm the only one that is willing to/can buy the team (no more competition from Seatle). Why would he even pay the asking price..? It's like buying a house, why would I make an offer over or at the asking price if there is no other offers on the table? So the NHL just created that competition.. those SEVERAL potential buyers with so much money it's not even funny! All that in like 2 weeks!


And now that secret meeting is postponed.. lol.. that can't be serious!


But again, the only thing that make me think all that.. is the way the NHL is reacting right now and going public like that.

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