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Phoenix LXXVI: Renaissance Men

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Old
05-04-2013, 09:21 PM
  #101
cbcwpg
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Said it a hundred times....

Selling this team isn't the problem.... Getting the CoG to cover the losses is...

So the heavies come to town, sit down with the potential owners and the CoG to discuss a lease... So?

NHL: we are going to need some help to offset the costs of running the team.

CoG: so how much?

NHL: well, lets say $15M

CoG: ah..NO.

NHL: $10M

CoG: no... Try again

NHL: $6M?

CoG: sure, as long as they are also the arena managers.

NHL: so how about it Gosbee?

Gosbee: run this team and the arena for $6M a year? Ah.... NO.

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05-04-2013, 09:24 PM
  #102
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And the rubber hits the road, as I guess now the COG will find out what this particular group's looking for, whether or not its doable... interesting to note as well that Campbell in the Hockey News speculated earlier that Hulsizers group including Koules & Lawton "may have had an offer on the table for the Coyotes for some time". Here, Fox is suggesting Gosbee/LeBlanc are the frontrunners so I guess we'll see.
They all want the "Jamison deal" you got to wonder if Jamison was the main problem in closing the "Jamison deal". If that really off the table that meeting is not ending well.

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05-04-2013, 09:34 PM
  #103
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They all want the "Jamison deal" you got to wonder if Jamison was the main problem in closing the "Jamison deal". If that really off the table that meeting is not ending well.
They simply dont have the money to pay $10-$15M in AMF's madhi. Even if they wanted to, where do they find it? Imagine had Jamison actually closed? Where would they have come up with the $15M+ in year two to pay him without closing down several fire halls & cop shops, laying off employee's etc etc etc? They really dodged a bullet on that one, and so here we are again. If Gosbee & Le Blanc along with Bettman & Daly go strolling in there making outrageous demands, I sincerely do hope Weiers just shows them the door.

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05-04-2013, 09:41 PM
  #104
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They simply dont have the money to pay $10-$15M in AMF's madhi. Even if they wanted to, where do they find it? Imagine had Jamison actually closed? Where would they have come up with the $15M+ in year two to pay him without closing down several fire halls & cop shops, laying off employee's etc etc etc? They really dodged a bullet on that one, and so here we are again. If Gosbee & Le Blanc along with Bettman & Daly go strolling in there making outrageous demands, I sincerely do hope Weiers just shows them the door.
I don't think the potentials and the NHL are going to make outrageous demands just for the sake of doing so. But, the problem is they are going to make demands that are absolutely required to have ownership have a chance at breaking even. And it just so happens those demands are not something the CoG can afford.

I could see the CoG telling Gary to take his team and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

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05-04-2013, 09:43 PM
  #105
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Sounds like Bettman is throwing a Hail Mary pass... I think this is sink or swim time now...

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05-04-2013, 09:58 PM
  #106
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But, the problem is they are going to make demands that are absolutely required to have ownership have a chance at breaking even. And it just so happens those demands are not something the CoG can afford.... I could see the CoG telling Gary to take his team and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Indeed. And therein lies the fundamental problem, that very premise in and of itself being absolutely anathema to how private interests & businesses are supposed to be operated. If they cant make a go of it while receiving a fair market value AMF then just dont bother pitching Glendale at all with not only one but both hands being extended & open. If they simply havent the hubris, the confidence & the jam to see it through, cant absorb losses themselves while executing a resurrection, again, just dont bother. Its possible Hulsizer, Pastor & Jamison are being held in abeyance, back of the frontrunners as George Gosbee is the wealthiest of the lot looking for little more than whats been tabled by the COG at $6M. Until we learn what he & Le Blanc are seeking, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, hope that common sense prevails. If not, and we hear of requests for double or treble the $6M already allocated, then clearly, this is a front and a farce. No reasonable person signs a deal with a creditor like Glendale even if they went nuts and agreed when that creditor simply doesnt have the $$$.

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Sounds like Bettman is throwing a Hail Mary pass... I think this is sink or swim time now...
I guess we'll soon see...

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05-04-2013, 10:01 PM
  #107
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Sounds like Bettman is throwing a Hail Mary pass... I think this is sink or swim time now...
Interesting language from MarkhamNHL. I am not sure who he is trying to complete the pass to, or which team he would be for....

I see it more like this:
Bettman would like to stay in Glendale if possible.
He will pressure the city... "You need us, you really do. How can you go this far and quit now...."

The question really is: Can Glendale resist the temptation to bankrupt themselves?

So far it seems Weiers has no internal feeling of need for a hockey team. His statements show that. His actions - promoting an RFP for Arena Management - indicate that. Will he stick to that faced with the ultimatum.... Something like "15M+ a year or the team leaves....."?

I hope so. Not for the sake of Quebec, but for the sake of common sense, I hope so.

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05-04-2013, 10:11 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
They simply dont have the money to pay $10-$15M in AMF's madhi. Even if they wanted to, where do they find it? Imagine had Jamison actually closed? Where would they have come up with the $15M+ in year two to pay him without closing down several fire halls & cop shops, laying off employee's etc etc etc? They really dodged a bullet on that one, and so here we are again. If Gosbee & Le Blanc along with Bettman & Daly go strolling in there making outrageous demands, I sincerely do hope Weiers just shows them the door.
I don't see it happening either but never underestimate the stupidity of peoples they still think they need to pay somebody 6 million just to keep the lights on after all.

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05-04-2013, 10:21 PM
  #109
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YES! AT LAST!

The commish traveling west? So glad!

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05-04-2013, 10:33 PM
  #110
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YES! AT LAST!

The commish traveling west? So glad!
You're not tracking planes again? lolll

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05-04-2013, 10:53 PM
  #111
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Interesting language from MarkhamNHL. I am not sure who he is trying to complete the pass to, or which team he would be for....

I see it more like this:
Bettman would like to stay in Glendale if possible.
He will pressure the city... "You need us, you really do. How can you go this far and quit now...."

The question really is: Can Glendale resist the temptation to bankrupt themselves?

So far it seems Weiers has no internal feeling of need for a hockey team. His statements show that. His actions - promoting an RFP for Arena Management - indicate that. Will he stick to that faced with the ultimatum.... Something like "15M+ a year or the team leaves....."?

I hope so. Not for the sake of Quebec, but for the sake of common sense, I hope so.
That's why this is a hail mary... last second attempt to score... he knows the new mayor will not buy his baloney... to me I think this is it, once they get rejected for a sweetheart deal from the COG, Bettman can now say "tried everything"... and sell/relocate the team.

people need to understand something too... Gosbee may be doing this favour for Bettman, so down the road he gets a favour in return from the NHL. this is how the game is played with Bettman. help him out of a jam, and you get rewarded down the road... just ask Leopold


as well... Bettman knows if a 3rd party company runs the arena, it's really game over for the yotes. no more subsidy and they will really need to start paying rent then


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05-04-2013, 11:52 PM
  #112
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They simply dont have the money to pay $10-$15M in AMF's madhi. Even if they wanted to, where do they find it? Imagine had Jamison actually closed? Where would they have come up with the $15M+ in year two to pay him without closing down several fire halls & cop shops, laying off employee's etc etc etc? They really dodged a bullet on that one, and so here we are again. If Gosbee & Le Blanc along with Bettman & Daly go strolling in there making outrageous demands, I sincerely do hope Weiers just shows them the door.
That's the issue. They drained all accounts that they could plunder to pay the NHL $45 million, and now have a "structural deficit" going forward even with an increased sales tax that sunsets in a few years.

The new "interim" city manager basically told city council that "there is no money" when they wanted to respond favourably to a funding request for fire and police services, remarking that cuts to other programs and services would be "surgical". That was a pittance compared to what it would take to come close to the Jamison AMF.

They were living in "la la land" and leaning on "Clarkonomics" and Hocking's fairy dust right up to Jamison's lease. Reality has landed with a thud, and I doubt that the new city manager or a majority of city council members would go for a large AMF. Even if they did, I can't imagine that it would escape a petition attempt, with the very active participation of fire and police and their supporters. There doesn't seem to be the time left to mess around with those processes.

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05-04-2013, 11:56 PM
  #113
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S'wounds! An assize on Tuesday!

NHL, Gosbee/LeBlanc group to meet with Glendale

To quote:

"Sources familiar with the situation confirmed that NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly and prospective buyers George Gosbee and Anthony LeBlanc will meet with City of Glendale officials on Tuesday as they open negotiations on a lease agreement for Jobing.com Arena.

Included in that meeting will be Glendale Mayor Jerry Weiers, city council members and acting city manager Dick Bowers."

Source: http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/nhl/...27&feedID=3702

Perchance an owner will be anointed?

Fare thee well!
The final squeeze play. The NHL will want to find out pronto whether the COG would contemplate lease terms that would be acceptable to Gosbee. If so, it's game on in city council. If not, I think it's on to "Plan B" for both the COG and the NHL.

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05-05-2013, 03:15 AM
  #114
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Im in this camp as well. Ceilings been reached. $6M or $6.5M tops & thats it thats all. Five-seven year Lease & AMC. Right of Relocation, giving Glendale 12mnths notice after 48mnths if no way no how can the ship not be righted from its badly listing position. The purchaser as well capping the Consent Form with the NHL, losses over & above 'X' applied to any Relo Fee's as being waived, almost carte blanche to go wherever they want & if into someone elses territory, indemnification payments TBD.
a 12 month relo clause would sentence the ownership too a lame duck season. Attendance has been horrible with uncertainty hanging over the team, imagine how bad it would be if the certainty was they ARE leaving.

At $6-$6.5 million you are still talking an annual 8 figure loss unless you somehow convince Phoenicians hockey is fun. "we know most of you have ignored this sport for 17 years but seriously guys its cool. Check it out and BTW you have to pay 50% more than what you weren't paying for the past 17 years, otherwise they will leave and you WILL notice they are gone even though you hardly noticed they were here."

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05-05-2013, 03:45 AM
  #115
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As you will, more spaniards...

Former Phoenix Suns star Kevin Johnson gives the Valley one last assist

To quote:

"It’s never easy for any city to lose a major professional sports franchise. It changes everything. Fans become jaded. Victims become mercenaries. To regain a lost franchise, cities must often court teams in existing markets, doing to others what has been done to them.

In the coming weeks, civic and business leaders in the Valley must again deal with the ongoing plight of our hockey team. The NHL said the Coyotes will be sold in the very near future. The city of Glendale must attempt to reach another lease agreement with a potential owner. But after four years of instability and chaos, it will be hard to convince and convey a sense of urgency to a skeptical populace.

Alas, we’ve been down this road too many times.

Just remember: The Coyotes are a location problem, not a marketplace problem. Had the team moved to Scottsdale as originally intended, the team would be stable and profitable, and NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman wouldn’t be defending his expansion policy."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...st-assist.html

Fare thee well!

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05-05-2013, 07:21 AM
  #116
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The proof that the nhl is trying yet another squeeze play on Glendale is that Gosbee hasn't bought the team yet. The mayor could very well say to the nhl he'll make a "fair arrangement" with the new owner, or something around those lines. Or remember the nhl they fronted 45m$ and that now it's their turn to make the first move (ie sell the team first). I'd like to see Bettman getting his own bs talk served to him for once.

Glendale will get the blame. That's not fair.

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05-05-2013, 07:41 AM
  #117
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You're not tracking planes again? lolll
I am not a flightaware user.

But this could be fun!

Here's another interesting "tracking" website http://www.moodys.com/credit-ratings...ting-600023953


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05-05-2013, 11:18 AM
  #118
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The midget will come into Glendale with a grand bargain, just watch! His deal will be to first state to the Council how important the team is to the city and state, all of the BS associated with GB. Once he has stated the ridiculous, he will then attempt to sell the Council on shared pain for the NHL and COG all for the good of the whole.

His grand bargain will look something like this: The NHL will lower its asking price by say 50MM, if in the first five years of new ownership the city offers up the same in subsidy. So depending on how you break it up, it may be asking the COG for either 80MM (50+30 MM AMF) or for an equal amount (50MM) that the NHL has agreed to in lowering their price.

The COG, hopefully in their newfound wisdom, will show the little egomaniac the door and go find an operator to run the stadium, good riddance forever!

The news stories, once the dust has settled and the Coyotes have moved on to other unknown pastures, will likely raise the issue of location, location, location! The building in the middle of nowhere was the primary reason for this epic failure. Even a moderately bright owner could have made a go of it had a new arena been built in PHX or Scottsdale.

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05-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #119
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"The Coyotes are a location problem, not a marketplace problem. Had the team moved to Scottsdale as originally intended, the team would be stable and profitable, and NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman wouldn’t be defending his expansion policy."
I dont agree with this statement. Phoenix wasnt an expansion franchise, it wound up in Arizona as a result of relocation & by accident as the City Squires to the initial destination didnt like what the ownership & league were demanding. Assuming things went down exactly as they did, Burke the first to depart with Gluckstern selling out to Ellman, based on his triangulations in Glendale followed by Moyes effectively inheriting the team, Scottsdale would be facing the same said nightmare scenario. To suggest it would be "stable & profitable" with Captain Ahab at the wheel is fiction be it Scottsdale, Glendale, Peoria or anywhere else for that matter. Scottsdale smelled a rat. Im sure they wouldve loved to have had the Coyotes stationed there, the development to go with but they didnt trust Ellman.

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05-05-2013, 11:49 AM
  #120
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The midget will come into Glendale with a grand bargain, just watch! His deal will be to first state to the Council how important the team is to the city and state, all of the BS associated with GB. Once he has stated the ridiculous, he will then attempt to sell the Council on shared pain for the NHL and COG all for the good of the whole.

His grand bargain will look something like this: The NHL will lower its asking price by say 50MM, if in the first five years of new ownership the city offers up the same in subsidy. So depending on how you break it up, it may be asking the COG for either 80MM (50+30 MM AMF) or for an equal amount (50MM) that the NHL has agreed to in lowering their price.

The COG, hopefully in their newfound wisdom, will show the little egomaniac the door and go find an operator to run the stadium, good riddance forever!

The news stories, once the dust has settled and the Coyotes have moved on to other unknown pastures, will likely raise the issue of location, location, location! The building in the middle of nowhere was the primary reason for this epic failure. Even a moderately bright owner could have made a go of it had a new arena been built in PHX or Scottsdale.
The new council in the end will give basically everything the new group wants.IMHO the only unknown is GWI/referendum does GB roll the dice to see how this would play out?

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05-05-2013, 11:57 AM
  #121
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Phoenix wasnt an expansion franchise, it wound up in Arizona as a result of relocation & by accident as the City Squires to the initial destination didnt like what the ownership & league were demanding.

Yeah? You mean they were originally supposed to move somewhere else, or are you referring to Winnipeg?

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05-05-2013, 12:01 PM
  #122
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Yeah? You mean they were originally supposed to move somewhere else, or are you referring to Winnipeg?
Minnesota.

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05-05-2013, 12:03 PM
  #123
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Minnesota.
Ah, thanks. I did not know that!


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05-05-2013, 12:05 PM
  #124
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Yet another item discussed ad nauseum! Has anyone ever been able to make the case that if the city were to plunk down an extra 50MM over 5 years what the economic return to the city would be on those dollars? I recall, estimates being thrown around that the team staying for another 41 dates would yield revenues to the city of 2.5-3MM per annum! In my analysis, this is a return that does not come close to justifying an expenditure of that magnitude!

For those who may be interested in hockey, should a deal get done in the 11th hour, what will the team look like without Tippett, Maloney and perhaps as many as 11 FA`s going elsewhere?

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05-05-2013, 12:06 PM
  #125
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If anything, Mr. Bettman is there to basically put the pressure on the City of Glendale. Maybe be a moderator for some type of discussion... But I don't think that Glendale can afford to hand out what Bettman, Gosbee and LeBlanc may be asking for an AMF.

Judging by the latest cuts to the budgets of fire services, I would if the GWI would step in for any abornormally large amount of cash being handed over to any ownership group. After all, cutting fire services and handing out cash to an NHL team isn't the best "bang for the buck" of taxpayers.

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