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G&M's Rowland: The CBC is in crisis. Canadians deserve to know why

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05-03-2013, 07:23 AM
  #1
Mungman
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G&M's Rowland: The CBC is in crisis. Canadians deserve to know why

New article that has a brief statement about the CBC and hockey

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/comme...ticle11676193/

Quote:
Sometime within the next two years, the CBC is almost certainly going to lose its single largest source of advertising revenue, NHL hockey. It will be out-bid for the contract by one of the country’s enormously wealthy commercial broadcasters, probably Bell Media. That will mean a loss of 40 per cent of the corporation’s total annual ad revenue, but also a loss of something close to 400 hours of Canadian content programming – a hole that will have to be filled. Already bled white by decades of funding reductions from successive federal governments, the CBC is in no position to survive this blow.

With a decidedly unfriendly sponsor in Ottawa, we can expect what will amount to a privatization of the public broadcaster. This is a process that has been underway now for nearly a decade, under the stewardship of former CBC president Robert Rabinovitch, the current president Hubert Lacroix, and vice-presidents Richard Stursberg and Kirstine Stewart.
Two observations:
- Wow, they never should have 40% of their ad revenue coming from one six hour block once a week for 9 months a year.
- They're ****ed once this goes to tender, they can't afford to bid full market price for this because they need to subsidize the rest of their programming with this money. They also can't afford to fully invest in maximizing the revenues from the rights the way a private entity could, ****ed I say, ****ed.....


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05-03-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by viper0220 View Post
The NHL makes $200 million a year from the NBC deal and also $200 million from total Canadian broadcasters. After the new deal in Canada how much do you think will they make from Canadian TV deal(s) a year? Is it safe to say that it will be someehere between $300 Million to $400 Million?
Im not doubting you, but can you or anyone break down that $200M from Canadian broadcasters for me?

Regarding relocation of the Phoenix Coyotes, one point that has been raised constantly is that the NHL might be unwilling to leave the Phoenix market because of the NBC contract. Now, in terms of relative dollars, if the Canadian total were to increase to $300M to $400M (per year?), would that not undermine the relative importance the league might feel in ensuring presence in certain under-performing US television markets? And furthermore, lend credence to the idea that the league might be willing to put even more teams in Canada because of the comparative broadcast contracts in both countries?

Do we know what RDS pays now? And what that might become if the Nordique rejoin the league? Same with Rogers' SN and Bell's TSN and another team in either Hamilton or GTA2 (albeit, much messier and complicated, as it involves ownership and indemnification, re: mlse).

(Mods feel free to delete if this post strays into problematic territory.)

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05-06-2013, 08:34 PM
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Jonas1235
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Canadian tv deal is probably worth 350 million as of right now. CBC can't pay that, they may get a small package due to nostalgia. But make no mistake, BELL/ROGERS will pay hundreds of millions to get national tv deal with NHL.

Sportsnet, Sportsnet Regionals, TSN, TSN2, The Score. There's so many channels and options. The possibilities are unlimited. Especially with this new realignment where Canadian teams play each other a lot.

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05-06-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
Im not doubting you, but can you or anyone break down that $200M from Canadian broadcasters for me?

Regarding relocation of the Phoenix Coyotes, one point that has been raised constantly is that the NHL might be unwilling to leave the Phoenix market because of the NBC contract. Now, in terms of relative dollars, if the Canadian total were to increase to $300M to $400M (per year?), would that not undermine the relative importance the league might feel in ensuring presence in certain under-performing US television markets? And furthermore, lend credence to the idea that the league might be willing to put even more teams in Canada because of the comparative broadcast contracts in both countries?

Do we know what RDS pays now? And what that might become if the Nordique rejoin the league? Same with Rogers' SN and Bell's TSN and another team in either Hamilton or GTA2 (albeit, much messier and complicated, as it involves ownership and indemnification, re: mlse).

(Mods feel free to delete if this post strays into problematic territory.)

CBC pays 100 million and TSN pays somewhere around 35 million and RDS, Sportsnet pay the other. It is close to 150 million with Canadian tv deals(sorry about the 200 million from Canadian tv deals).

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05-06-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Canadian tv deal is probably worth 350 million as of right now. CBC can't pay that, they may get a small package due to nostalgia. But make no mistake, BELL/ROGERS will pay hundreds of millions to get national tv deal with NHL.

Sportsnet, Sportsnet Regionals, TSN, TSN2, The Score. There's so many channels and options. The possibilities are unlimited. Especially with this new realignment where Canadian teams play each other a lot.


350 million is too much, if they move another team to Canada then maybe it is but right now don't think so.

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05-06-2013, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Canadian tv deal is probably worth 350 million as of right now. CBC can't pay that, they may get a small package due to nostalgia. But make no mistake, BELL/ROGERS will pay hundreds of millions to get national tv deal with NHL.

Sportsnet, Sportsnet Regionals, TSN, TSN2, The Score. There's so many channels and options. The possibilities are unlimited. Especially with this new realignment where Canadian teams play each other a lot.
The CBC doesn't subsidize HNiC so they can afford to pay up to the amount that the ad revenue will bring them (i.e. they break even). Bell/Rogers are public companies and shareholders might not like it if they bid up beyond what the ad revenue will bring in, resulting in a loss.

The NHL also doesn't want to eliminate one of the bidders that results in the contracts being bid up so high anyway. If the CBC loses the NHL they might exit pro-sports altogether which mean the next time, the NHL has one less bidder.

I could see the NHL carving off a smaller Saturday night package with a reduced role in the playoffs. Bell and Rogers could bid for the rest of the national rights (cable and broadcast) and an expanded playoff package.

These exact same stories were written back in 2007 about how the CBC was likely to lose the NHL etc. etc. Rumours of their demise were exaggerated back then and may be again today.

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05-06-2013, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Inkling View Post
The CBC doesn't subsidize HNiC so they can afford to pay up to the amount that the ad revenue will bring them (i.e. they break even). Bell/Rogers are public companies and shareholders might not like it if they bid up beyond what the ad revenue will bring in, resulting in a loss.

The NHL also doesn't want to eliminate one of the bidders that results in the contracts being bid up so high anyway. If the CBC loses the NHL they might exit pro-sports altogether which mean the next time, the NHL has one less bidder.

I could see the NHL carving off a smaller Saturday night package with a reduced role in the playoffs. Bell and Rogers could bid for the rest of the national rights (cable and broadcast) and an expanded playoff package.

These exact same stories were written back in 2007 about how the CBC was likely to lose the NHL etc. etc. Rumours of their demise were exaggerated back then and may be again today.
The difference now is cable companies that own sports channels now own the leafs, are they going to use that to get at least the Leafs for 82 games plus there play-off games on there channels. They can raise cable rates/charges for channels to make it viable financially. They have a few ways to get revenue, while CBC has advertising.

On the other side, how did Radio-Canada do without the Habs, there stuff has been on cable for what 7-8 years now? Do any habs fans really care? Do they want it back on the public broadcaster?

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05-07-2013, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper0220 View Post
CBC pays 100 million and TSN pays somewhere around 35 million and RDS, Sportsnet pay the other. It is close to 150 million with Canadian tv deals(sorry about the 200 million from Canadian tv deals).
Sportnet's deals are with the teams they broadcast, they do not have a contract with the NHL. Those deals go straight to the team the contract is with, they are not split 30 ways like the NBC/CBC/TSN deals are.

(Note: the TSN Jets and TSN Habs deals are the same as the Sportsnet deals the money from TSN goes straight to the team)

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05-07-2013, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mungman View Post
Sportnet's deals are with the teams they broadcast, they do not have a contract with the NHL. Those deals go straight to the team the contract is with, they are not split 30 ways like the NBC/CBC/TSN deals are.

(Note: the TSN Jets and TSN Habs deals are the same as the Sportsnet deals the money from TSN goes straight to the team)
"Sportnet's deals are with the teams they broadcast..." for now. You think Rogers not tired of hearing clients complain about regional blackout. I guarantee when the next national deal come up they gonna want a piece. They don't have a choice "a la carte" is around the corner. You can't have blackout and survive when the customers can and will vote you off their package.

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05-07-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post
The CBC doesn't subsidize HNiC so they can afford to pay up to the amount that the ad revenue will bring them (i.e. they break even). Bell/Rogers are public companies and shareholders might not like it if they bid up beyond what the ad revenue will bring in, resulting in a loss.

The NHL also doesn't want to eliminate one of the bidders that results in the contracts being bid up so high anyway. If the CBC loses the NHL they might exit pro-sports altogether which mean the next time, the NHL has one less bidder.

I could see the NHL carving off a smaller Saturday night package with a reduced role in the playoffs. Bell and Rogers could bid for the rest of the national rights (cable and broadcast) and an expanded playoff package.

These exact same stories were written back in 2007 about how the CBC was likely to lose the NHL etc. etc. Rumours of their demise were exaggerated back then and may be again today.
Someone who gets it. Still don't quite understand why people think the other networks are somehow able to grossly outbid the CBC to get the rights. These are corportations that have to make money. They aren't going to be bidding on a loss basis, and really have no interest in killing the CBC.

Not to mention the CBC recently won the Canadian Olympic bid, outbidding the other networks. Its not like they aren't being competitive in the sports landscape.

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05-07-2013, 10:17 AM
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Nordiques games will be on TVA Sports in french no doubt (same owner).
Sportsnet for english coverage (Atlantic)?

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05-07-2013, 10:21 AM
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Someone who gets it. Still don't quite understand why people think the other networks are somehow able to grossly outbid the CBC to get the rights. These are corportations that have to make money. They aren't going to be bidding on a loss basis, and really have no interest in killing the CBC.

Not to mention the CBC recently won the Canadian Olympic bid, outbidding the other networks. Its not like they aren't being competitive in the sports landscape.
Is it really considered a 'win'?

It was my understanding that nobody really wanted it. Nobody was willing to give the IOC what they were asking for and there was talk that some Olympics might not even have a network carrier in Canada. I don't think the CBC was really bidding against anyone.

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05-07-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Someone who gets it. Still don't quite understand why people think the other networks are somehow able to grossly outbid the CBC to get the rights. These are corportations that have to make money. They aren't going to be bidding on a loss basis, and really have no interest in killing the CBC.

Not to mention the CBC recently won the Canadian Olympic bid, outbidding the other networks. Its not like they aren't being competitive in the sports landscape.
The biggest issue (from CBC's perspective) with bidding market rate to get the rights is that they count on using the ad revenue from HNiC to subsidize the rest of their operations (40% of total ad revenue).

Whether they don't get the rights at all, or bid full market rate and need all the ad revenue to pay for the rights puts them in the same boat, they are ****ed in their overall operations. They would lose over a billion dollars a year if it were not for the government subsidy, the less profit from the HNiC cash cow the more the beast is starved.

Either way when the new contract comes up the Ceeb is getting a haircut in their available operations budget and the NHL will get more revenue. Personally I'd rather see the private sector get the revenue and profits to distribute to shareholders and invest in profitable endeavours instead of throwing the money into the bottomless pit at 250 Front St W.

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05-07-2013, 10:30 AM
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It'll be really different for the CBC to not be the main hockey broadcaster on Saturday Nights in this country. Also if this happens it'll be different to watch the playoffs and not have CBC broadcasting them. something about spring and playoff hockey.

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05-07-2013, 10:31 AM
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State-owned media is such a backwards, retrograde way of doing things. And it almost invariably gets warped to suit the political agenda of whichever political minority captures it -- just look at the stridently leftist BBC -- thus violating the pledge to represent all of the people.

There's no need for government controlled media in the age of 1,000 channels and a billion websites. Government controlled media has too much potential for corruption -- again look at the BBC's massive, decades long, child abuse cover up. Government TV -- alongside Government Radio and Government Newspapers, is an anachronism that belongs in the past.


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05-07-2013, 11:05 AM
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There was a topic a few months ago on this subject.

I barelly said that CBC could lose hockey and people laughed of me saying it will never happen it's too important for CBC. But Harper's been cutting CBC budget like butter with a heated knife.

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05-07-2013, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kebekoi View Post
Nordiques games will be on TVA Sports in french no doubt (same owner).
Sportsnet for english coverage (Atlantic)?
As the rules stand right now, TVA sports would only get regional coverage rights. RDS would, like it or not, have the remaining national rights.

Anyone knows how many games can the regional broadcaster broadcast?
Or maybe it's the other way around, national broadcaster takes the games they want and then the regional broadcaster pick their games?

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05-07-2013, 11:32 AM
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As the rules stand right now, TVA sports would only get regional coverage rights. RDS would, like it or not, have the remaining national rights.

Anyone knows how many games can the regional broadcaster broadcast?
Or maybe it's the other way around, national broadcaster takes the games they want and then the regional broadcaster pick their games?
IIRC the national contract gets first kick at the can and the regional gets the leftovers.

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05-07-2013, 11:35 AM
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As the rules stand right now, TVA sports would only get regional coverage rights. RDS would, like it or not, have the remaining national rights.

Anyone knows how many games can the regional broadcaster broadcast?
Or maybe it's the other way around, national broadcaster takes the games they want and then the regional broadcaster pick their games?
Kinda, but it happens that the canadian contract is due to renewal in 2015 if I'm not wrong. And RDS are so Habs sold that 95% of Quebecers would be pissed off to have to watch Nordiques on RDS.

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05-07-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by scotchex View Post
State-owned media is such a backwards, retrograde way of doing things. And it almost invariably gets warped to suit the political agenda of whichever political minority captures it -- just look at the stridently leftist BBC -- thus violating the pledge to represent all of the people.

There's no need for government controlled media in the age of 1,000 channels and a billion websites. Government controlled media has too much potential for corruption -- again look at the BBC's massive, decades long, child abuse cover up. Government TV -- alongside Government Radio and Government Newspapers, is an anachronism that belongs in the past.
Damn, I absolutely love the BBC. Their documentaries and news are the best in the world, in my opinion. If the CBC were even 1/10th as good as the BBC, I'd be a fan of it.

As it is, a decision needs to be made with respect to the CBC. If they're going to continue to flounder in mediocrity and slowly get worse and worse, I think it's better to just nip it in the bud and get rid of the CBC / privatize it. However, if the government wants a respectable public broadcasting channel like the BBC, then they should allocate resources to the CBC in order to make that happen.

I don't know which route is better, but the CBC as it is is a rather embarrassing national institution.

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05-07-2013, 12:41 PM
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Is it really considered a 'win'?

It was my understanding that nobody really wanted it. Nobody was willing to give the IOC what they were asking for and there was talk that some Olympics might not even have a network carrier in Canada. I don't think the CBC was really bidding against anyone.
CTV and Rogers lost money on the Olympics because they overpaid for the rights, which is exactly why it's not a slam-dunk that the CBC will lose the NHL in 2014. It certainly could happen, but nobody is going to bid up the rights so high that they can't make their money back, just for the sake of having them.

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05-07-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by scotchex View Post
State-owned media is such a backwards, retrograde way of doing things. And it almost invariably gets warped to suit the political agenda of whichever political minority captures it -- just look at the stridently leftist BBC -- thus violating the pledge to represent all of the people.

There's no need for government controlled media in the age of 1,000 channels and a billion websites. Government controlled media has too much potential for corruption -- again look at the BBC's massive, decades long, child abuse cover up. Government TV -- alongside Government Radio and Government Newspapers, is an anachronism that belongs in the past.
So it's okay for Rogers and Bell to force their points-of-view onto the general public with no place else to turn, but the broadcasting company who is one of the few things this country gets right and is "shielded from constant government intervention and legislative oversight" is nothing but a corrupt, government controlled corporation MOD?

Sorry, but I'll trust the government over any corporation who's simply selling me a product.


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05-07-2013, 05:32 PM
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If CBC doesn't get NHL rights, they'll exit pro sports altogether. All the broadcasters will move on to somewhere else. In short, the CBC will lose the ability to broadcast professional sports entirely.

Which means the NEXT time around, CBC won't be bidding, and the NHL will be stuck with Rogers/Bell duopoly.

The NHL will make sure that the CBC sticks around. It will probably be something like what happened last time - the CBC gets fewer and fewer games, the cable companies get more and more playoffs.

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05-07-2013, 08:10 PM
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HNIC will still be there, but I think they will lose ALL Leaf games to TSN, or Sportsnet if they get in on the national broadcast rigths. Hopefully this will mean CBC and TSN will be going head to head with national brodcasts on Saturdays at 7pm ET with the Leafs on TSN and the Habs/Sens/Jets on CBC. More games on TV the better, IMO.

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05-07-2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Kebekoi View Post
Nordiques games will be on TVA Sports in french no doubt (same owner).
Sportsnet for english coverage (Atlantic)?
cart before the horse

Quebec is several miles away from getting an nhl team

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