HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Luongo Thread: Part Agoogleplex

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-03-2013, 06:01 PM
  #976
LolClarkson*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles Junkie View Post
While we're at it, we can throw in Hamonic, Strome, Reinhart & Mayfield. Just make sure we get Keith Ballard back.

I don't see any DP/Luongo deals happening, but if it does, I really don't think you guys will be pleased with the asset that goes back. because it isn't going to be a difference maker.
If no difference maker comes back then you can keep the worst contract in history.

LolClarkson* is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 06:20 PM
  #977
YouppiKiYay
Registered User
 
YouppiKiYay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bellingham, WA
Country: United States
Posts: 380
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
I am curious what adding Bieksa to Luongo might bring
Joy to the fan base?

YouppiKiYay is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 06:22 PM
  #978
PG Canuck
Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,851
vCash: 53
The only way a Luongo/DiPietro deal happens is if the Canucks get a good player packaged with DP. It's the only way.

PG Canuck is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 06:27 PM
  #979
Isles Junkie
Brian Strait Sucks
 
Isles Junkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
If no difference maker comes back then you can keep the worst contract in history.
Well the deal wouldn't just be DP+ for Luongo. It would be DP+ for Lunongo, Booth/Ballard/another bad contract you're looking to move.

it's basically the assets for a cap-dump. I don't think the Isles are at a point in their rebuild where they can trade say a Ryan Strome or Griffin Reinhart for a 34 year old goalie with a lot of contract left, a 30 year old sub 6'00" Dman who hasn't been particularly good the last few years &/or a 28 year old LW (which we have plenty of) who hasn't been skating like a top 6 player for about 5 years now.

I just think for as much fun as it is to talk about this, and as much as on the surface both teams could benefit, in the long term it's a move that winds up hurting the Islanders.

There are plenty of goalies avaliable this summer. Granted none as good as Luongo, but there are #1 goalies out there. To me it just makes more sense to get a goalie elsewhere if the price is giving up a difference maker. To me the Isles difference makers are way more valuable than getting rid of Ricks deal. It isn't as if we're going to be up against the cap anyway.

Isles Junkie is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 06:28 PM
  #980
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,407
vCash: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
The only way a Luongo/DiPietro deal happens is if the Canucks get a good player packaged with DP. It's the only way.
It amuses me how people think owners will pay $24 million just for a mid round first. I know HF has a love affair with picks that borders on obsession, but bloody hell.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 06:32 PM
  #981
PG Canuck
Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,851
vCash: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
It amuses me how people think owners will pay $24 million just for a mid round first. I know HF has a love affair with picks that borders on obsession, but bloody hell.
Aquilini isn't going to shell out $24M of his own money for just a draft pick. It has to be an impact player or a highly touted prospect so he knows what he's paying $24M for. With our history of drafting, I wouldn't pay $24M for a draft pick, especially if it was my money.

PG Canuck is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 06:35 PM
  #982
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,407
vCash: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Aquilini isn't going to shell out $24M of his own money for just a draft pick. It has to be an impact player or a highly touted prospect so he knows what he's paying $24M for.
Agreed. And that is likely the same for every team Isle fans are now bringing up Nino is a gamble, but young enough most teams would probably be comfortable taking a chance on - his AHL numbers this year help. Anything short of him and Long Island best begin the paper to buy DP out themselves.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 07:07 PM
  #983
Fictional Realism
What is going on?
 
Fictional Realism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Crease
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,523
vCash: 894
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Aquilini isn't going to shell out $24M of his own money for just a draft pick. It has to be an impact player or a highly touted prospect so he knows what he's paying $24M for. With our history of drafting, I wouldn't pay $24M for a draft pick, especially if it was my money.
Pretty freaking much.

All this calculation of what $24MM is worth in assets really serves no purpose. It's worth what an owner is willing to take for $24MM in cash basically. I don't buy some of the main board speculation that there will be a lot of teams lined up for this one. It's sure nice for fans to speculate on "free" assets, but for an owner it is a big bite to take. You'd really have to sweeten the deal I'd think for any ownership group to swallow that entire deal.

Gillis (or any GM for that matter) would have to bring a deal to ownership that actually justified such a massive expense. Regardless of the assets coming back most of the league likely doesn't make enough profit to swallow a buy out of that size anyway.

Fictional Realism is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 07:41 PM
  #984
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 18,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles Junkie View Post
To me the Isles difference makers are way more valuable than getting rid of Ricks deal.
To you, absolutely. You're not stroking the $25mil cheque.

Ask season ticket holders if they want to pitch in an extra ten grand to help buyout Dipietro or instead move him with Nino and a pick and I can tell you opinions would change pretty quickly.

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 07:57 PM
  #985
Scurr
Bear G
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
To you, absolutely. You're not stroking the $25mil cheque.

Ask season ticket holders if they want to pitch in an extra ten grand to help buyout Dipietro or instead move him with Nino and a pick and I can tell you opinions would change pretty quickly.

Scurr is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 08:03 PM
  #986
Wilch
Unregistered User
 
Wilch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Under your bed
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 11,866
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
To you, absolutely. You're not stroking the $25mil cheque.

Ask season ticket holders if they want to pitch in an extra ten grand to help buyout Dipietro or instead move him with Nino and a pick and I can tell you opinions would change pretty quickly.
I have a feeling some of those season ticket holders could probably afford to pay for the entire buyout.

Wilch is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 08:32 PM
  #987
LolClarkson*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles Junkie View Post
Well the deal wouldn't just be DP+ for Luongo. It would be DP+ for Lunongo, Booth/Ballard/another bad contract you're looking to move.

it's basically the assets for a cap-dump. I don't think the Isles are at a point in their rebuild where they can trade say a Ryan Strome or Griffin Reinhart for a 34 year old goalie with a lot of contract left, a 30 year old sub 6'00" Dman who hasn't been particularly good the last few years &/or a 28 year old LW (which we have plenty of) who hasn't been skating like a top 6 player for about 5 years now.

I just think for as much fun as it is to talk about this, and as much as on the surface both teams could benefit, in the long term it's a move that winds up hurting the Islanders.

There are plenty of goalies avaliable this summer. Granted none as good as Luongo, but there are #1 goalies out there. To me it just makes more sense to get a goalie elsewhere if the price is giving up a difference maker. To me the Isles difference makers are way more valuable than getting rid of Ricks deal. It isn't as if we're going to be up against the cap anyway.
It was the Isles who brought up their intention to trade DP as a buyout. It had nothing to do with Luongo.

So the question is, what will the Isles have to package with DP in order to move him ?

I would say it has to be Okaposo , Nino or somebody like that plus picks.

LolClarkson* is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 08:35 PM
  #988
LolClarkson*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
It amuses me how people think owners will pay $24 million just for a mid round first. I know HF has a love affair with picks that borders on obsession, but bloody hell.
You know how else you get top prospects ?

-losing a lot which isn't cheap
-breaking up your core by trading your top roster player (intending to lose a lot in the future)

LolClarkson* is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:00 PM
  #989
mossey3535
Registered User
 
mossey3535's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,373
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Pretty freaking much.

All this calculation of what $24MM is worth in assets really serves no purpose. It's worth what an owner is willing to take for $24MM in cash basically. I don't buy some of the main board speculation that there will be a lot of teams lined up for this one. It's sure nice for fans to speculate on "free" assets, but for an owner it is a big bite to take. You'd really have to sweeten the deal I'd think for any ownership group to swallow that entire deal.

Gillis (or any GM for that matter) would have to bring a deal to ownership that actually justified such a massive expense. Regardless of the assets coming back most of the league likely doesn't make enough profit to swallow a buy out of that size anyway.
Sheesh, where were you guys when I was getting killed for saying that Aquilini probably wouldn't be on board with buyouts or retaining any of Luongo's salary when it they could just get rid of them for picks?

I just don't see it happening. This franchise could easily lose it's cash cow status, how quickly we forget.

mossey3535 is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:16 PM
  #990
me2
Callng out the crap
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Blasting the bull***
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 30,220
vCash: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Pretty freaking much.

All this calculation of what $24MM is worth in assets really serves no purpose. It's worth what an owner is willing to take for $24MM in cash basically. I don't buy some of the main board speculation that there will be a lot of teams lined up for this one. It's sure nice for fans to speculate on "free" assets, but for an owner it is a big bite to take. You'd really have to sweeten the deal I'd think for any ownership group to swallow that entire deal.

Gillis (or any GM for that matter) would have to bring a deal to ownership that actually justified such a massive expense. Regardless of the assets coming back most of the league likely doesn't make enough profit to swallow a buy out of that size anyway.
TO would be the obvious candidate if it was owned by a hockey crazy private owner. It isn't, it is a profit making business.

Philly still have Bryzgalov's potential buyout to deal with, rules them out IMHO.

NYR maybe, but after all of Sather's screw ups that ended in buyouts they probably want to play it safe.

Who else is left that has the financial clout? Montreal? Detroit? Chicago? Vancouver? Boston (Jacobs, not likely)?

Of those who has the will power/need? Vancouver.

me2 is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:30 PM
  #991
me2
Callng out the crap
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Blasting the bull***
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 30,220
vCash: 93
Last 20 years of 15th overall picks

Jason Bowen
Mats Lindgren
Alexander Kharlamov
Martin Biron
Dainius Zubrus
Matt Zultek
Mathieu Chouinard
Scott Kelman
Artem Kryukov
Igor Knyazev
Jesse Niinimaki
Robert Nilsson
Alexander Radulov
Ryan O'Marra
Riku Helenius
Alex Plante
Erik Karlsson
Peter Holland
Derek Forbort
J. T. Miller
Cody Ceci

I wouldn't pay $24m for a 1 in 20 shot at Karlsson

me2 is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:32 PM
  #992
yarder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: at my place
Country: Canada
Posts: 41
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Pretty freaking much.

All this calculation of what $24MM is worth in assets really serves no purpose. It's worth what an owner is willing to take for $24MM in cash basically. I don't buy some of the main board speculation that there will be a lot of teams lined up for this one. It's sure nice for fans to speculate on "free" assets, but for an owner it is a big bite to take. You'd really have to sweeten the deal I'd think for any ownership group to swallow that entire deal.

Gillis (or any GM for that matter) would have to bring a deal to ownership that actually justified such a massive expense. Regardless of the assets coming back most of the league likely doesn't make enough profit to swallow a buy out of that size anyway.
Was it not Francesco Aquilini that was the driving force behind Lu's contract. I seem to remember that circulating at the time of the deal.
I think it is no coincidence that the price hikes are occurring at the time of buyouts. It might be how Gillis saved his job

yarder is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:43 PM
  #993
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 11,080
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by me2 View Post
I wouldn't pay $24m for a 1 in 20 shot at Karlsson
a better way to compile this would be to look at the last four years of the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, and 17th.

Zack Kassian
Dmitri Kulikov
Peter Holland
Nick Leddy
David Rundblad
Brandon Gormley
Jaden Schwartz
Derek Forbort
Vladimir Tarasenko
Joey Hishon
Duncan Siemens
Ryan Murphy
Sven Baertschi
Jamie Oleksiak
J.T. Miller
Radek Faksa ----- (Colten Teubert)
Zemgus Girgensons ----- (Zach Boychuk)
Cody Ceci ----- (Erik Karlsson)
Tom Wilson ----- (Joe Colborne)
Tomas Hertl ----- (Jake Gardiner)

you could leave out 2012 if you think those five are too uncertain - see (players)

id say it seems more reasonable that a 15th this year is closer in value (in that draft picks are more valuable because scouting has improved at the top level) to a 13th in 2010 than it is a 15th in 1997

Verviticus is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:45 PM
  #994
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,498
vCash: 500
The Luongo deal strikes me as something typical of transplanted Italians, where one Italian homie gives special treatment to another Italian just because he's Italian.

I can't tell you how many ****** business contacts my Grandfather kept just because they were also Italian. He expected my mom to take us to every new Italian dentist, doctor, whatever he found (wanting us to drop our current doctor, etc) and they were almost slimy and creepy.

Wisp is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:46 PM
  #995
Max Kellerman
dim jim
 
Max Kellerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver
Country: United States
Posts: 49,096
vCash: 50
Luongo for Malkin

Max Kellerman is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:46 PM
  #996
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,498
vCash: 500
If we're buying 1sts, I'd rather try to relieve Tampa of theirs (for Vinny).

Wisp is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:47 PM
  #997
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 11,080
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
To you, absolutely. You're not stroking the $25mil cheque.
its not a $25mil cheque, it's sixteen $1.5m cheques, possibly even divvied up in a pseudo-salary way (biweekely/monthly/whatever). paying $1.5m now and getting interest/value on $23.5m this year, then $22m next year etc is a lot easier to justify.

Verviticus is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:47 PM
  #998
Carl Carlson
Registered User
 
Carl Carlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,701
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Luongo for Malkin
I was just going to say looks like the pens could use a goalie...

Carl Carlson is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:51 PM
  #999
Nuckles
Bleed Assets E'ryday
 
Nuckles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Benning's empty head
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,403
vCash: 50
Nearing 1k posts, continue here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1440955

__________________

Fire Benning. Fire Linden. Fire Desjardins. Hire competent people.
Nuckles is offline  
Old
06-03-2013, 09:53 PM
  #1000
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 23,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
a better way to compile this would be to look at the last four years of the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, and 17th.

Zack Kassian
Dmitri Kulikov
Peter Holland
Nick Leddy
David Rundblad
Brandon Gormley
Jaden Schwartz
Derek Forbort
Vladimir Tarasenko
Joey Hishon
Duncan Siemens
Ryan Murphy
Sven Baertschi
Jamie Oleksiak
J.T. Miller
Radek Faksa ----- (Colten Teubert)
Zemgus Girgensons ----- (Zach Boychuk)
Cody Ceci ----- (Erik Karlsson)
Tom Wilson ----- (Joe Colborne)
Tomas Hertl ----- (Jake Gardiner)

you could leave out 2012 if you think those five are too uncertain - see (players)

id say it seems more reasonable that a 15th this year is closer in value (in that draft picks are more valuable because scouting has improved at the top level) to a 13th in 2010 than it is a 15th in 1997
Still a whole lot of mediocre players who I wouldn't give up that much money for.

Tiranis is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.