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Rating the new top 20

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Old
05-11-2005, 01:53 PM
  #51
Frankie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Anyway, after all that, you didn't even answer my question. What is your point in coming here? All you do with your negative comments is piss people off. If that is your motivation that's one thing, but you won't even admit it.
you won't respond to this because you're pretending to have me on your "ignore list", but what is anyone's point in coming here? what exactly is your motivation for being here?

just bury your head in the sand and blindly cheer for everything our beloved maple leafs do? you want everyone here to agree on everything the leafs do? that would be fun?

anyone who disagrees with you or says anything negative about the leafs shouldn't post here? that's insane.

fact is, pappy makes good points and you can't argue with them so instead you just try to brush him of as "always being so negative". pretty childish if you ask me, and shows your lack of knowledge when you have to attack the person instead of the issue.

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05-11-2005, 02:18 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
Maybe 2 or 3 might be roll players in the NHL, a couple of others might spend their time between the NHL and the AHL, the others the ECHL and Central league, this list should be forwarded to Bettman who then should award Crosby immediatley to the Leafs, even with Sid we well still have a chance at Kessell next year.
Wow, I am surprised by these remarks. While I agree, that most on the top 20 will never see the light of the NHL day, I find it very hard to believe that the best we can hope for from this crop is a couple of role players. Even the most discriminating pundit will grant Steen at least a strong second line player and Colaiacovo, a top 4 defensemen. While I will wholeheartedly agree with the leafs weak drafting past, I cannot agree that things have not changed. I think the scouting staff the team has now is the best in a while. Also, the devils have had thier share of busts as well as booms. Furthermore, I would match the Leafs defense prospects against the Devils any day.

Finally, I find it really quite presumptuous to say that the Leafs are headed towards the toilet when even the most knowledgeable people do not have a clear idea of what the NHL landscape will be when all is said and done. I think it is really presumptous of anyone to do so given the uncertainty of it all. Finally, I can't imagine that whatever the landscape of the future is, that the teams that have spent the most would allow themselves to have their knees cut out from under them before they even get started. There will be some kind of grandfathering policy or restructuring, etc. These teams will need to be as competitive as possible like everyone else to bring back thier fans. I'm sorry, but I just can't understand why so many on this board see doom befalling the leafs. It makes no sense to say that.

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Old
05-11-2005, 03:00 PM
  #53
Volcanologist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falon
I'm sorry, but I just can't understand why so many on this board see doom befalling the leafs. It makes no sense to say that.
I think some, like Pappy for example, take a secret masochistic joy in it.

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Old
05-11-2005, 05:42 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falon
Wow, I am surprised by these remarks. While I agree, that most on the top 20 will never see the light of the NHL day, I find it very hard to believe that the best we can hope for from this crop is a couple of role players. Even the most discriminating pundit will grant Steen at least a strong second line player and Colaiacovo, a top 4 defensemen. While I will wholeheartedly agree with the leafs weak drafting past, I cannot agree that things have not changed. I think the scouting staff the team has now is the best in a while. Also, the devils have had thier share of busts as well as booms. Furthermore, I would match the Leafs defense prospects against the Devils any day.

Finally, I find it really quite presumptuous to say that the Leafs are headed towards the toilet when even the most knowledgeable people do not have a clear idea of what the NHL landscape will be when all is said and done. I think it is really presumptous of anyone to do so given the uncertainty of it all. Finally, I can't imagine that whatever the landscape of the future is, that the teams that have spent the most would allow themselves to have their knees cut out from under them before they even get started. There will be some kind of grandfathering policy or restructuring, etc. These teams will need to be as competitive as possible like everyone else to bring back thier fans. I'm sorry, but I just can't understand why so many on this board see doom befalling the leafs. It makes no sense to say that.
Toronto can sell out the building with a 30th place team, Florida, Coyotte's, Washington, Carolina, Kings, Ducks, Atlanta, Nashville, Chicago, St.Louis, Islanders, Devils, Flames, Oilers can't and they have the votes, Rangers, Leafs, Wings, Flyers, Colorado, are the minority, that's why there isn't Hockey, as Karmanos owner of the Canes said yesterday there will be cost certainty or there will be no Hockey this year either.

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Old
05-11-2005, 05:50 PM
  #55
Pappy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
So did your scouting friend own up to all the errors the Devils make in regards to their busts?

The majority of Devils' picks make the NHL?
Should we go over the last 15 drafts for the two franchise's, it wouldn't be pretty Ulfie.

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Old
05-11-2005, 05:57 PM
  #56
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
Should we go over the last 15 drafts for the two franchise's, it wouldn't be pretty Ulfie.
As Frankie would say, you didn't answer the question.

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Old
05-11-2005, 05:57 PM
  #57
Pappy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falon
Wow, I am surprised by these remarks. While I agree, that most on the top 20 will never see the light of the NHL day, I find it very hard to believe that the best we can hope for from this crop is a couple of role players. Even the most discriminating pundit will grant Steen at least a strong second line player and Colaiacovo, a top 4 defensemen. While I will wholeheartedly agree with the leafs weak drafting past, I cannot agree that things have not changed. I think the scouting staff the team has now is the best in a while. Also, the devils have had thier share of busts as well as booms. Furthermore, I would match the Leafs defense prospects against the Devils any day.

Finally, I find it really quite presumptuous to say that the Leafs are headed towards the toilet when even the most knowledgeable people do not have a clear idea of what the NHL landscape will be when all is said and done. I think it is really presumptous of anyone to do so given the uncertainty of it all. Finally, I can't imagine that whatever the landscape of the future is, that the teams that have spent the most would allow themselves to have their knees cut out from under them before they even get started. There will be some kind of grandfathering policy or restructuring, etc. These teams will need to be as competitive as possible like everyone else to bring back thier fans. I'm sorry, but I just can't understand why so many on this board see doom befalling the leafs. It makes no sense to say that.
Judging Carlo from the playoffs against the Moose he might not be a top 4 on the Marlies, Bell worse than that, White not a Rafalski at this time and probably not in the future either, D'Amour an ECHL player at this time, I'm waiting to have my mind changed by these players in the future, but I'll go out on a limb and say the pick 21st overall they gave to San Jose who they traded to Boston, Stuart will be better than all the Leafs young D's. Just my opinion we shall see.

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Old
05-11-2005, 06:08 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
As Frankie would say, you didn't answer the question.
I wouldn't want to embarras myself as a Leaf fan, he might bring up too much pain for me to endure. He might ask me if the Leafs ever got a McCauley in the 4th rd, how they traded Kurvers for Niedermayer, how they took Gomez 20 picks after we took Antropov, how they took Guerin after we took Thornton, how they took Stevens after we took Nylund, how they took Colin White after we took the big Czech stiff Posmyk, I can't go on Ulfie it's just too painfull.

All I want is a team who has a chance at winning a Cup in the few years I have left, now is that too much too ask just a legit chance thats all that ole pappy is asking.

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Old
05-11-2005, 06:40 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
I wouldn't want to embarras myself as a Leaf fan, he might bring up too much pain for me to endure. He might ask me if the Leafs ever got a McCauley in the 4th rd, how they traded Kurvers for Niedermayer, how they took Gomez 20 picks after we took Antropov, how they took Guerin after we took Thornton, how they took Stevens after we took Nylund, how they took Colin White after we took the big Czech stiff Posmyk, I can't go on Ulfie it's just too painfull.

All I want is a team who has a chance at winning a Cup in the few years I have left, now is that too much too ask just a legit chance thats all that ole pappy is asking.
All I ask is that when the Leafs' spot in the next draft is determined you tell us beforehand who they should pick. Let's see if you actually know anything.

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Old
05-11-2005, 07:07 PM
  #60
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When Ballard took over and through draft-schamft years with Fletcher, the drafting was generally poor or traded away. But when one takes into consideration where they've picked from recently, I happen to think the crop of kids that they have now is better than what I've seen in some time in the organization and so are the people now doing the drafting.

It is not a group of talent that puts them at the top of the prospects heap for NHL teams - not close. There was never any chance of that with their draft position, the barren farm infrastructure that Fletcher left and the Nolan & Leetch deals anyway.

If you look at any teams prospects list, it is common that a minority make it. So yes, many in the top 20 won’t make it as NHL regulars but that’s an obvious "no-surprise" statement for most teams in the NHL.

I've also watched the Leafs for a long time. If there's anything I've learned from that is that you have to let these guys develop some before you conclude where they'll finish. Each year of development, you do get closer to a more accurate conclusion on a player. A draft is just a best guess for most of these players.

No one had a clue about Kaberle or Markov for example. Did anyone pick Stajan to crack the NHL last year and do as well as he did? I sure didn't though he seemed like a decent enough kid with an outside chance of making the NHL someday. Did anyone pick Wellwood to finish as high as he did in AHL scoring and to take his game up to the level he did with some real magic ? I didn't.

Rather than doom and gloom, I happen to think it's all part of the fun. From watching the group of kids as I have, I think they have some potential and some of them will surprise a few people.

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Old
05-11-2005, 08:31 PM
  #61
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
White not a Rafalski at this time and probably not in the future either,
Rafalski was 26 before he played the pro-game in North America, so really Rafalski wasn't the Rafalski you know now at 20.

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Old
05-12-2005, 10:04 AM
  #62
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Ha ha, yeah, Ballard was pretty bad. lol Ballard wares his watch up side down, because he fears the future and rather live in the past. hehehe JK.

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