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Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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Old
06-15-2013, 12:09 AM
  #726
RaiderDoug
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Forsberg is fast as hell and barkov brings grit.
Somehow, you just described both of those guy's biggest weakness.

Forsberg was allegedly available because Washington was worried about his skating, and Barkov, for all his size, does not play a nasty physical game.

Although I agree that they'll complement each other quite well.

In drafts of 18 year olds in sports where there's a long development time, I'm big on BPA. There's no sense in drafting for need when the team could look drastically different by the time they're in thier prime. Staff could be different, systems might be different, etc. Take whomever's left in order of Mack, Drouin, Jones, and Barkov in that order and hope you've hit a homerun for the next decade.

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06-15-2013, 03:03 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Somehow, you just described both of those guy's biggest weakness.
I think we understand grit a bit differently. As Craig Button has said, "Oh, Barkov is a competitor, competitiveness, definitely 5" When he had to rate Barkov's Shot, Hands, IQ, Skating and Competitiveness every other trait was 5 except Skating and Shot were 4.

I don't think grit necessarily means bone crushing tackles or being a pest. You can show grit in your game with showing elite competitiveness to outplay even better opponents. Craig Button again talks about how Barkov played against the Koivu line, Barkov came out winning the most puck/corner battles. Barkov has elite competitiveness and it definitely is one of his strengths.

Some video of the competitiveness of Barkov from around 0:40. First there is almost a goal by HPK, Barkov goes on to win the puck battle against three HPK players in the defensive end, takes the puck up ice, fights for it in the offensive corner with two HPK players guarding him and wins the puck battle, and makes the pass for the easy tap in.






I know you don't think of Barkov as a quitter, but it's better to let everybody know what we are talking about. Someone might think that "Ah, Barkov's weakness is grit", another might continue "Well someone said he was a primadonna so it's not that surprising he is a quitter" "Yeah, I hope they don't end up taking the lazy ass primadonna, the locker room cancer, I'm sure he is the epitome of play-off choker".

So are you talking about not having the pest like traits? That he is not a "Jarkko Ruutu"?


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Old
06-15-2013, 09:42 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
I think we understand grit a bit differently. As Craig Button has said, "Oh, Barkov is a competitor, competitiveness, definitely 5" When he had to rate Barkov's Shot, Hands, IQ, Skating and Competitiveness every other trait was 5 except Skating and Shot were 4.

I don't think grit necessarily means bone crushing tackles or being a pest. You can show grit in your game with showing elite competitiveness to outplay even better opponents. Craig Button again talks about how Barkov played against the Koivu line, Barkov came out winning the most puck/corner battles. Barkov has elite competitiveness and it definitely is one of his strengths.

Some video of the competitiveness of Barkov from around 0:40. First there is almost a goal by HPK, Barkov goes on to win the puck battle against three HPK players in the defensive end, takes the puck up ice, fights for it in the offensive corner with two HPK players guarding him and wins the puck battle, and makes the pass for the easy tap in.


I know you don't think of Barkov as a quitter, but it's better to let everybody know what we are talking about. Someone might think that "Ah, Barkov's weakness is grit", another might continue "Well someone said he was a primadonna so it's not that surprising he is a quitter" "Yeah, I hope they don't end up taking the lazy ass primadonna, the locker room cancer, I'm sure he is the epitome of play-off choker".

So are you talking about not having the pest like traits? That he is not a "Jarkko Ruutu"?
I see your point.

I guess what I was trying to say is that Barkov's game is more of a finesse big center - we've seen the comparisons to Joe Thornton - rather than a physical monster like an Eric Lindros in his prime.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, it just is what it is.

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06-15-2013, 09:48 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
I see your point.

I guess what I was trying to say is that Barkov's game is more of a finesse big center - we've seen the comparisons to Joe Thornton - rather than a physical monster like an Eric Lindros in his prime.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, it just is what it is.
http://flyersfaithful.com/2013/04/26...-eric-lindros/

Someone already posted this but I'm reposting for you.


Also, someone said I'm jinxing the pick by being excited about the possibility of drafting barkov, really?!?!

My preference is barkov, not because he is ranked fourth, I like him more than drouin who is ranked higher, but as I have said multiple times, I would be thrilled with drouin as well.

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06-15-2013, 04:30 PM
  #730
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As the draft draws nearer and nearer I'm getting the feeling that Barkov will be gone by the time we draft, and I know I've said tat I'd be happy with anyone in the top five but I'll feel really bummed about not getting him.

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06-15-2013, 06:10 PM
  #731
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As the draft draws nearer and nearer I'm getting the feeling that Barkov will be gone by the time we draft, and I know I've said tat I'd be happy with anyone in the top five but I'll feel really bummed about not getting him.
if Barkov is gone it means we get either Drouin or Mackinnon, or else a nice fat trade package from someone who wants Jones if he's still there at 4.

I'll get over it.

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06-15-2013, 06:33 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
if Barkov is gone it means we get either Drouin or Mackinnon, or else a nice fat trade package from someone who wants Jones if he's still there at 4.

I'll get over it.
Would just be nice to get Mack or bark, we need a centre.

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06-15-2013, 06:58 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Would just be nice to get Mack or bark, we need a centre.
Wilson can be that center. He was drafted to be that center. We can make any of the top pieces work. Wilson centering drouin would be a amazing.

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06-15-2013, 07:25 PM
  #734
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Wilson can be that center. He was drafted to be that center. We can make any of the top pieces work. Wilson centering drouin would be a amazing.
I'm not quite sure Wilson has #1C in him. I think he could easily be a #2, but I'm just not sure he has THAT much upside to be the key guy to build around in the middle.

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06-15-2013, 08:08 PM
  #735
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I'm thinking Poile trades down and drafts Nurse.

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06-15-2013, 08:51 PM
  #736
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I'm thinking Poile trades down and drafts Nurse.
Its the most logical situation, were a defensive team in need of a 2nd pairing the right decision if you think about it...... But seriously if that happens I am becoming a thrashers fan

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06-15-2013, 11:09 PM
  #737
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I will burn Poile in effigy in front of the Bridge he does something stupid like trading down and picking Nurse.

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06-15-2013, 11:33 PM
  #738
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I think poile uses the fourth to take an offensive weapon for sure. I don't see us going after nurse, but I could see us moving something to maybe pick up pulock later in the first if he slips, which I think may happen.

He may not step in right away and be our second pairing defenseman, but I don't think nurse would be either.

Would love to screw over Philly and have josi talk streit into coming south!! That's kleiner's partner I hope!

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06-16-2013, 06:54 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
I think poile uses the fourth to take an offensive weapon for sure. I don't see us going after nurse, but I could see us moving something to maybe pick up pulock later in the first if he slips, which I think may happen.

He may not step in right away and be our second pairing defenseman, but I don't think nurse would be either.

Would love to screw over Philly and have josi talk streit into coming south!! That's kleiner's partner I hope!
too much $ to spend on a 3rd pairing dman

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Old
06-16-2013, 07:36 AM
  #740
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If Barkov and Mac are gone, I'd like to see Drouin especially for the speed factor. However, I could see, Nichushkin there or even a trade down a spot or 2 and picking up Lindholm.

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:00 AM
  #741
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
if Barkov is gone it means we get either Drouin or Mackinnon, or else a nice fat trade package from someone who wants Jones if he's still there at 4.

I'll get over it.
I can't see any scenario where Jones is available at 4. I hear all this about MacKinnon possibly being taken at 1 but I don't see it. If Colorado trades the pick, the team who gets it will almost certainly be doing so to get Jones. I would assume. With that said, barring a trade or any type of moronic move by Poile, I think it's almost a guarantee we get Barkov or Drouin. Whoever isn't taken yet. Really when you think about it, Tampa Bay is basically making our pick for us. 2 of the big 4 will still be there. Whoever they don't take, we will.

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Old
06-16-2013, 10:12 AM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
too much $ to spend on a 3rd pairing dman
If he is kleins partner he would be second pairing.

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06-16-2013, 11:12 AM
  #743
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I can't see any scenario where Jones is available at 4. I hear all this about MacKinnon possibly being taken at 1 but I don't see it. If Colorado trades the pick, the team who gets it will almost certainly be doing so to get Jones. I would assume. With that said, barring a trade or any type of moronic move by Poile, I think it's almost a guarantee we get Barkov or Drouin. Whoever isn't taken yet. Really when you think about it, Tampa Bay is basically making our pick for us. 2 of the big 4 will still be there. Whoever they don't take, we will.
That's not necessarily the case with the Preds. If DP can't live without Mac And makes a deal with Colorado to get the #1 He takes him there. Its really hard to visualize DP not wanting Jones though. The variables of Colorado, Florida, and Tampa what each need and who they would prefer is what makes all of us uneasy. All could stick where they are and take the best available compared to there needs. Jones, Mac likely 1 and 2 then its cloudy, Nich will get consideration in 3 thru 5 and I would be surprised if he is left after 5. If Tampa stays at pick three it will be Nich or Barkov and Druion falls If Colorado and Tampa swap picks Colorado takes Barkov. If These picks happen I really don't know if DP Takes Druion so would it be Nich or move down a couple spots to take Lindholm or Nurse. Or trade the 4 for a late 1st or 2nd and a roster player.

This draft reminds you of the 2010 draft for the top two Taylor or Tyler and looking back Johansan was that years Barkov, Johansan is now 20 with 14 goals and 33 points in his first two years in NHL. Now im sure there are going to be those that will poopoo the comparison but the production numbers are not close but Barkov played with "men" ok we have all heard that. Bottom line both were 17 when drafted and at this point its a coin toss.

The topic has been analyzed, scrutinized flipped flopped ground into the dirt and here we are two weeks out and really have no idea what the pick will be. The one thing im sure of at this point the 4 pick will have about a 3.5 mil cap hit, and if the defense hole if filled and Erats hole is filled this 4 pick will not be playing in Nashville this fall without opening some salary cap.

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06-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #744
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This draft reminds you of the 2010 draft for the top two Taylor or Tyler and looking back Johansan was that years Barkov, Johansan is now 20 with 14 goals and 33 points in his first two years in NHL. Now im sure there are going to be those that will poopoo the comparison but the production numbers are not close but Barkov played with "men" ok we have all heard that. Bottom line both were 17 when drafted and at this point its a coin toss.
What is a coin toss? Is it a coin toss which one was a better prospect at their draft year, Johansen or Barkov? You know Barkov had a better season at 17 than Johansen at 20. The lucky part about AHL and FEL/SEL is that they are somewhat comparable leagues. And Johansen had a worse season 2012-13 than Barkov. And Johansen is over 3 years older than Barkov. So unless Mackinnon and Drouin are on a whole other level than Hall and Seguin, Barkov must be closer to Mackinnon and Drouin than Johansen was to Hall/Seguin. Also hasn't McKenzie said that at least one team has Barkov over both Mackinnon and Drouin when he was polling the scouts for his lists. Now I don't remember if that was the case in 2010 with Johansen/Hall/Seguin.

Wouldn't Monahan be more of this years Johansen than Barkov? I know he is 18 this year but if you look at his 2011-12 season he compares quite well.


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06-16-2013, 01:03 PM
  #745
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That's not necessarily the case with the Preds. If DP can't live without Mac And makes a deal with Colorado to get the #1 He takes him there. Its really hard to visualize DP not wanting Jones though. The variables of Colorado, Florida, and Tampa what each need and who they would prefer is what makes all of us uneasy. All could stick where they are and take the best available compared to there needs. Jones, Mac likely 1 and 2 then its cloudy, Nich will get consideration in 3 thru 5 and I would be surprised if he is left after 5. If Tampa stays at pick three it will be Nich or Barkov and Druion falls If Colorado and Tampa swap picks Colorado takes Barkov. If These picks happen I really don't know if DP Takes Druion so would it be Nich or move down a couple spots to take Lindholm or Nurse. Or trade the 4 for a late 1st or 2nd and a roster player.
I'm mainly referring to a team outside of the top 4 joining the fray, trading for a pick, then COL, FLA, TB, or us trading down, not swapping within the top 4. It's possible but not what I was getting at. I think if the teams stay the same (and probably even if they dont) the top 5 is pretty set at Jones-Mac-Drouin-Barkov-Nich. I think the biggest likelihood of it not going in that order is if Tampa decides to get Barkov over Drouin. I think that scenario is more likely than Jones falling out of number 1, or Nich going above 5.

Nichushkin is good but I don't think he's on the same level as the top 4. Who would a team take out of the top 4 in order to draft him? I don't see it happening, and I certainly hope we wouldn't. It all depends on team need, but I think the top 5 are pretty set. But again who knows? I will say the one team I could see drafting Barkov or Nich is Tampa. They may not necessarily need another guy like Stamkos and St Louis and whatnot. They may look for the bigger, European playmakers such as those two. If Tampa takes either Barkov or Nich, it'll be really interesting to see where we go. I get the sense that Barkov is like 1a and Nich is 1b among Euros.


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Old
06-16-2013, 01:37 PM
  #746
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I really feel, for all the talk and smokescreens and rumors - Colorado won't pass up hometown boy Jones, Florida isn't taking anyone but MacK, Drouin is the perfect replacement for MSL in Tampa, and you can't make a better fit for player for Nashville than Barkov.

No one will give up one of those big 4, so no one will trade out.

For all the possibilities, this draft is going to be pretty anti-climactic.

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06-16-2013, 01:53 PM
  #747
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I really feel, for all the talk and smokescreens and rumors - Colorado won't pass up hometown boy Jones, Florida isn't taking anyone but MacK, Drouin is the perfect replacement for MSL in Tampa, and you can't make a better fit for player for Nashville than Barkov.

No one will give up one of those big 4, so no one will trade out.

For all the possibilities, this draft is going to be pretty anti-climactic.
That's what Friedge said on 2nd intermission last night

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06-16-2013, 02:24 PM
  #748
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I really feel, for all the talk and smokescreens and rumors - Colorado won't pass up hometown boy Jones, Florida isn't taking anyone but MacK, Drouin is the perfect replacement for MSL in Tampa, and you can't make a better fit for player for Nashville than Barkov.

No one will give up one of those big 4, so no one will trade out.

For all the possibilities, this draft is going to be pretty anti-climactic.
I agree, but the Draft Lottery was extremely boring and anti-climactic until the 1st and 2nd picks. Just saying haha

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06-16-2013, 02:46 PM
  #749
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You can't really compare this draft to 2010 draft or any other draft in like ten years. The top five in this draft could be number one in most drafts. This is just an insanely lucky year for us to be picking so high in such an insane stacked draft!

Johansen would be lucky to be top ten in this draft, I don't think Taylor and Tyler would even get into top five.
Dreger said yakupov would have tough time being top five this year,

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06-16-2013, 03:51 PM
  #750
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I really feel, for all the talk and smokescreens and rumors - Colorado won't pass up hometown boy Jones, Florida isn't taking anyone but MacK, Drouin is the perfect replacement for MSL in Tampa, and you can't make a better fit for player for Nashville than Barkov.

No one will give up one of those big 4, so no one will trade out.

For all the possibilities, this draft is going to be pretty anti-climactic.

This is what I've been saying for weeks. We could all pretty much predict this draft as soon as the lottery finished, but the writers have to keep things interesting during the lead up... in the end it will go pretty much as expected.

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