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Draft Thread Part 2: Bark to the Future

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06-17-2013, 11:18 AM
  #776
Hagged
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
If it is a forward and they make the team out of camp it will be 4th line minutes until Christmas and some 3rd line minutes the remainder of the year.

You make the best case for Barkov and I understand that I hope the guy does well wherever he ends up. But if that is Nashville your going to be yelling like a banshee watching him on those insignificant roles for a while. You will proclaim what a waste it is.
Oh now you take me for someone else. I think that playing Barkov on 4th and 3rd line could be the right thing to do. In my opinion he could flourish on bottom 6 role for the first, even his second season here. Barkov is possibly the only center of this draft that truly wouldn't be waste to be put there. He can play well against the best offensive lines, PK and still be able to pot, say 20 points in his first season from the 4th line with very limited 5on5 minutes.

If he is deemed not ready in the training camps this summer, i won't be yelling like a banshee either. Maybe that is for the best so he can take on a 1st line role in AHL and develop his offensive game a bit further. But drafting Barkov has the beauty of him never going to waste as his game suits bottom six as well as the top six. He will get 4th and 3rd line talent to score a bit more with his high IQ and puck possessing game. In top 6 I believe he won't be a difference maker yet next season. If he gets a top 6 role I could see him get around 60 points in the season, but that is propably the most you can get out of him even if he somehow manages to show he is worth the top line position and then there might be some who would say another top line center would have done a better job at racking points. But if he gets the bottom 6 role, I think everyone will be happy, the fans and the Predators team as a whole. In 2011-12 season he played 3rd line center in FEL and produced at a 0.5PPG clip. So a 16 years old Barkov got good 2nd line production out of 3rd liners along with making the said line one of the best defensive line in the league, in a league that is very comparable to AHL in level of play.

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06-17-2013, 11:20 AM
  #777
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In 2010 everyone knew Taylor Hall was the #1 pick. The Taylor vs Tyler stuff was just media hype because it was an easy story to boost reader numbers. After those two, there wasn't really any discussion at all and the top of that draft was much less hyped than this one.

This 2013 draft looks a lot more like the 2003 draft. The top end talent is going to be crazy good, and there will be plenty of late first rounders who will contribute in big ways sooner than most other drafts.

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06-17-2013, 11:51 AM
  #778
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All speculation I've heard from people who do this for a living and/or spend an ungodly amount of time scouting has said Mac, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, and Nich are all "ready" for NHL action, and many have actually said Barkov may be the most ready.

Maybe we send him back for another year to develop, but that would be our decision, not because he isn't ready.

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06-17-2013, 11:54 AM
  #779
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If whoever we pick at number 4 is ready to play then he plays. If he plays bottom 6 minutes and works his way up, so be it. If he plays top 6 minutes, so be it. If you are a great player and are ready, I don't care what team you're on, you should play. Some will say the grind will get to them. It's going to get to them one way or the other and I'd rather have guys learning in the roles they'll be playing then to be stuck with bottom 6 players playing a role they have no business playing. I think Volde is right that whoever we pick at 4 is going to be paired with Forsberg and let them learn together. If it's the third line, that's fine for now but I suspect over the course of the season, they'll supplant others playing above them. If the number 4 isn't ready, play them top line minutes in Milwaukee until they are ready to make the jump, which shouldn't be too long in any of the cases of these young players.

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06-17-2013, 11:57 AM
  #780
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If I understand the rules correctly, all of these guys are too young for AHL action. We'd have to send them back to juniors or Europe if we don't keep them.

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06-17-2013, 11:58 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
If I understand the rules correctly, all of these guys are too young for AHL action. We'd have to send them back to juniors or Europe if we don't keep them.
Totally forgot about that. Well they'll either be here or somewhere else next year...lol.

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06-17-2013, 12:19 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
If I understand the rules correctly, all of these guys are too young for AHL action. We'd have to send them back to juniors or Europe if we don't keep them.
Those rules only apply to players drafted out of the CHL.

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06-17-2013, 12:26 PM
  #783
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Oh now you take me for someone else. I think that playing Barkov on 4th and 3rd line could be the right thing to do. In my opinion he could flourish on bottom 6 role for the first, even his second season here. Barkov is possibly the only center of this draft that truly wouldn't be waste to be put there. He can play well against the best offensive lines, PK and still be able to pot, say 20 points in his first season from the 4th line with very limited 5on5 minutes.

If he is deemed not ready in the training camps this summer, i won't be yelling like a banshee either. Maybe that is for the best so he can take on a 1st line role in AHL and develop his offensive game a bit further. But drafting Barkov has the beauty of him never going to waste as his game suits bottom six as well as the top six. He will get 4th and 3rd line talent to score a bit more with his high IQ and puck possessing game. In top 6 I believe he won't be a difference maker yet next season. If he gets a top 6 role I could see him get around 60 points in the season, but that is propably the most you can get out of him even if he somehow manages to show he is worth the top line position and then there might be some who would say another top line center would have done a better job at racking points. But if he gets the bottom 6 role, I think everyone will be happy, the fans and the Predators team as a whole. In 2011-12 season he played 3rd line center in FEL and produced at a 0.5PPG clip. So a 16 years old Barkov got good 2nd line production out of 3rd liners along with making the said line one of the best defensive line in the league, in a league that is very comparable to AHL in level of play.
Then I apologize, For me I do not think it good for a talented player to come to NHL and play 4th line minutes when they could be playing elsewhere at this age improving there game. Playimg MacK or Barkov on the 4th line with a Yip and Clune does not do much for them. I will say the same thing with Hellberg the guy is too valuable to come sit and play 10 to 12 games. He should be moved to aquire other assets now rather than put him back in the AHL another year then still have him come up and ride the pine here. The team does not have a situation where Rinne plays 45 to 50 games and Hellberg plays the rest like some teams.

If Barkov is the guy it would be in his best interest to play somewhere other than Nashville this year for sure. Most fans want players brought up far too soon and have unrealistic expectations of guys that are barely old enough to shave. Wilson has struggled to develop, Watson as well and Geoffrion Hobie Baker winners with struggles to find there game in Nashville. What I want to see out of this pick is a solid player that is developed to play a big role on this team in a couple years. This fanbase is as impatient as Montreal's most of the time. Combined with Trotz's idea of development on the 4th line turns players into whipping boys. Legwand, Klein, Zidlicky, Suter all had there time in the doghouse. Wilson was in that house for over two years and just when he was starting to break out gets hurt. I hope he can pick up where he left off if he doesn't it will be a mess on the team and in this forum.

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06-17-2013, 12:42 PM
  #784
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Shocker! Barkov rated 4th here too. Though under Barkov's description, you'll see a familiar twitter account...

http://thehockeywriters.com/2013-nhl...ition-round-1/

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06-17-2013, 08:09 PM
  #785
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I think whoever we draft will play third line with forsberg and maybe someone like fisher or hornqvist. A gritty vet than can help them learn the ropes, so it wouldn't be a waste for them in Nashville.

This is getting so intense! I just want the end of the month already dammit!!

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06-17-2013, 08:13 PM
  #786
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I wouldn't mind seeing Smith on a line with Forsberg and Barkov. If that doesn't jump start him, nothing will. I also see the benefits of a vet there though.

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06-18-2013, 08:33 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by byrddog
For me I do not think it good for a talented player to come to NHL and play 4th line minutes when they could be playing elsewhere at this age improving there game.
I think that as long as 4th line minutes mean over 10 minutes of TOI it can be good for development to start there. To learn to play in the NHL you have to play in the NHL and practice hard. You can do both of them from the bottom six role, but it's harder to practice hard if you are playing 25minutes a night in the AHL for a full season. Then after the season in the AHL you still have 0 minutes of NHL TOI instead of 800 minutes of TOI in the NHL had you been on the 4th line.

So let's say Barkov gets 4th line role with 10 minutes of 5on5 and a couple of minutes of PK. He produces at a pace of a third liner. How long will he stay on the 4th line?

The point here is I'm one of those who think it's better to ease the prospects to the top 6 through bottom 6 roles as long as they don't suck at a bottom six role. There are players who are useless or even worse they are liabilities to their teams if they aren't showing up on the score sheet. Barkov is not one of those players, so him starting on the bottom 6 might be the right way to go. If he is ready to jump to the top 6 it will be easier to see it and try it if he is on the roster than if he is playing in the AHL / FEL. And I'm sure that before long Barkov will play him self out of the bottom six by world class offense, as he will make Yip and Clune look like goal scoring superstars.

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06-18-2013, 08:47 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing Smith on a line with Forsberg and Barkov. If that doesn't jump start him, nothing will. I also see the benefits of a vet there though.
I think you do a vet to start off the season; not sure who though. Leggy is possible as I think he will need to shift to wing if he stays here with Erat gone, SK in almost tradebait land, and a number of decent young C's coming through the pipeline.

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06-18-2013, 09:16 AM
  #789
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A guy like Bouque (speed, Grit, and Passing) would fit well with Bark and Forsberg imo. Wilson would be good but I honestly think they want him at center at some point to take over for Fisher and Legwand down the road.

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06-18-2013, 09:39 AM
  #790
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FF-Richards-Legwand
Borque-Wilson-Smith
Horny-Barkov-Fisher
Beck-Goose-Watson

I like the looks of those lines moving forward.

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06-18-2013, 09:57 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Smashville615 View Post
FF-Richards-Legwand
Borque-Wilson-Smith
Horny-Barkov-Fisher
Beck-Goose-Watson

I like the looks of those lines moving forward.
At this point I'd swap Beck and Smith.

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06-18-2013, 11:19 PM
  #792
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Wow, Colorado might draft one of the forwards at no.1 this year, or look to trade down. Things could get interesting for us.

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06-18-2013, 11:24 PM
  #793
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Wow, Colorado might draft one of the forwards at no.1 this year, or look to trade down. Things could get interesting for us.
Yep, and there is some speculation that Barkov could be a dark horse to go #1....... Things just got VERY interesting.....

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06-18-2013, 11:30 PM
  #794
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A guy like Bouque (speed, Grit, and Passing) would fit well with Bark and Forsberg imo. Wilson would be good but I honestly think they want him at center at some point to take over for Fisher and Legwand down the road.
Hmmm ... Bourque/Bark/Berg ...

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06-18-2013, 11:37 PM
  #795
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Wow, Colorado might draft one of the forwards at no.1 this year, or look to trade down. Things could get interesting for us.
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Originally Posted by drwpreds View Post
Yep, and there is some speculation that Barkov could be a dark horse to go #1....... Things just got VERY interesting.....
noooooooooooo

that might force Poile to draft Nichuskin.... or move down for Lindholm....

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06-18-2013, 11:44 PM
  #796
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noooooooooooo

that might force Poile to draft Nichuskin.... or move down for Lindholm....
I will still be in the BPA camp. If we "HAVE" to draft Jones we could get a fortune for him, or he'll fill in our top 4 for the next decade.

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06-18-2013, 11:55 PM
  #797
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I will still be in the BPA camp. If we "HAVE" to draft Jones we could get a fortune for him, or he'll fill in our top 4 for the next decade.
im not sure Jones is BPA if Nichuskin or Droiun is still on the board

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06-18-2013, 11:59 PM
  #798
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Wow, Colorado might draft one of the forwards at no.1 this year, or look to trade down. Things could get interesting for us.
Think Tampa takes him then.

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06-19-2013, 12:22 AM
  #799
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im not sure Jones is BPA if Nichuskin or Droiun is still on the board
Just an example, I'd rather keep the pick and draft a top 5 prospect then move down to the next tier and pick up a 2nd or whatever.

Worst case scenario out of the four would be Jones, IMO, and even then we draft him and ship him out for a great return or have a great top four for a decade win-win.

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06-19-2013, 05:50 AM
  #800
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Yep, and there is some speculation that Barkov could be a dark horse to go #1....... Things just got VERY interesting.....
The Avalanche board here couldn't take Barkov going at #1. Truth to be told, I haven't found a way to rank this top 4 for a long time. I just can't even see which one of them is the best at the moment. Add Nichuskin in the mix (who has question marks with half a season+playoffs in KHL and not much else to show for but that half a year has been 1st overall worthy in most other drafts) and I must admit I'm not the one to tell which one is better than the other. The only thing I can tell is some facts about Barkov and his game since I have seen most of his FEL games from both 2011-12 and 2012-13 seasons along with some of the WJC games and U18-WJC.

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