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It's Re-Tooling Time

View Poll Results: Well?
Go full rebuild, trading away practically everyone and starting fresh 51 16.89%
Retool, trading away some core players and some management changes 223 73.84%
Stand pat and hope for the best 13 4.30%
Cut off any dead weight and go all in for next year or the following year by selling off futures 15 4.97%
Voters: 302. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:05 AM
  #251
EpochLink
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Someone who we can get and not put in the press box for some unknown reasons..

See: Ballard, Keith

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:06 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I honestly haven't seem that nastiness. I think someone like Torres has been much more effective in that department.
I agree. Occasionally running into someone or snarling from time to time isn't "nastiness". IMO Kassian has exhibited barely any more killer instinct than, say, a Bernier.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:10 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Alex Edler needs to go. Edler for TB's pick or a player of similar caliber.
Bieksa too. I'd rather bieksa be gone than elder.

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05-06-2013, 10:11 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by StanGrossman View Post
Bieksa too. I'd rather bieksa be gone than elder.
Imagine if we had a coaching staff that made our d-men responsible for their defensive actions. We might be able to see 2011 Bieksa again, or a much improved Edler.

One can only dream.

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05-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by StanGrossman View Post
Bieksa too. I'd rather bieksa be gone than elder.
Bieksa has no value outside of Vancouver, though. Only us would think he's worth as much as Hamhuis.

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05-06-2013, 10:21 AM
  #256
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AVs gameplan is what makes it impossible for them to get into scoring areas. His insistance on the long tip pass is what prevents half of our team from being successful because they literally have zero transition game now. You can't have odd-man rushes if you're always waiting for the long tip in option.

Since our Cup run he has also done his best to not allow any cycling above the dots. He has also minimized opportunities for passes into slot from behind the net because they result in turnovers.

He's a prime example of an incredibly risk averse coach and this has been costing the team over the past two years. That is why you're seeing such low goal scoring numbers.

Honestly, just look at Roy's first 3 games and then look at him since. Before AV got his reigns on him, Roy utilized the full offensive zone which at times resulted in turnovers but also created a ton of chances. Since then he has stuck below the dots and has been completely nullified by his own coach.
You're blaming the coach for Roy refusing to go to the dirty areas? Come on? Gillis gave up a 2nd and Cannaughton for nothing, but another perimiter player, who refuses to handle the puck in a difficult area. The Canucks need to get tougher players. I don't mean knuckle draggers, who fight. I mean guys, who will play in straight lines, and are willing to take hits to make plays. Derek Roy is not that type of player. He's soft.

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05-06-2013, 10:21 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I agree. Occasionally running into someone or snarling from time to time isn't "nastiness". IMO Kassian has exhibited barely any more killer instinct than, say, a Bernier.
Agree whole heartedly with that. Gillis' philosophy in terms of re-structuring this roster for the playoffs has obviously proven to be extremely faulty.

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05-06-2013, 10:29 AM
  #258
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Bieksa has no value outside of Vancouver, though. Only us would think he's worth as much as Hamhuis.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Teams like Philadelphia and Tampa are absolutely desperate for defence. The problem with all this Bieksa/Edler speculation is the NTCs. I doubt we see them asked or, should it come to it, waived.

We are essentially locked in to this roster for another year. Trading the Sedins does not work on so many levels I would feel stupid stating them. We will see a goalie move, a Ballard move and at least one of Booth, Raymond and Roy jettisoned (possibly even two of those 3); the cap dictates that. So we will be forced to change the supporting cast, probably in favour of prospects like Schroeder, for reasons of cap hit.

Coaching is the only real change we can make next year. And after the PP, the d-pairings and the ****ing tip and chase entry, it is a change that needs to be made.

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05-06-2013, 10:32 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian54 View Post
Perhaps, perhaps not. Teams like Philadelphia and Tampa are absolutely desperate for defence. The problem with all this Bieksa/Edler speculation is the NTCs. I doubt we see them asked or, should it come to it, waived.

We are essentially locked in to this roster for another year. Trading the Sedins does not work on so many levels I would feel stupid stating them. We will see a goalie move, a Ballard move and at least one of Booth, Raymond and Roy jettisoned (possibly even two of those 3); the cap dictates that. So we will be forced to change the supporting cast, probably in favour of prospects like Schroeder, for reasons of cap hit.

Coaching is the only real change we can make next year. And after the PP, the d-pairings and the ****ing tip and chase entry, it is a change that needs to be made.
So really, we won't change much. I hope you don't expect different results then.

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05-06-2013, 10:33 AM
  #260
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all options should be on the table...gillis isn't doing his job unless he evaluates what he could possibly get for any core player without a nmc, which should prominently include burrows and edler

aside from the obvious ballard/booth/luongo moves i'd be all for either burrows or elder getting traded at the draft to break up the country club atmosphere...canucks locker room has become a bit too cozy and they need a core player to exit along with a new coach that isn't as afraid to mix things up

the past two playoffs have been unmitigated disasters, small tinkering isn't going to cut it (least of all to satisfy aquilini)

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05-06-2013, 10:34 AM
  #261
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This team clearly lost it's identity when it lost to Boston.

It was playing winning hockey that was fast-paced and a pleasure to watch.

Then the "Big Bad Bruins" won and all hell broke loose.

We had the same team trying to play a more grittier "play-off" style hockey. Essentially Nashville trying to win every game 1-0 or 2-1.

Washington is a great example. They were PT winners, higher flyers and entertaining. They got bounced and tried to switch to a defensive style system that didn't fit their team.

Now that they are back playing the style of hockey they should be playing, they are winning again.

Team needs a new coach.

However, it also needs some changes in personnel.

Time will tell what happens with either.


Last edited by Just A Bit Outside: 05-06-2013 at 01:05 PM.
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Old
05-06-2013, 10:35 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
You're blaming the coach for Roy refusing to go to the dirty areas? Come on? Gillis gave up a 2nd and Cannaughton for nothing, but another perimiter player, who refuses to handle the puck in a difficult area. The Canucks need to get tougher players. I don't mean knuckle draggers, who fight. I mean guys, who will play in straight lines, and are willing to take hits to make plays. Derek Roy is not that type of player. He's soft.
That's not what I said and you might want to read my post again. I'm taking issue with AV having the team utilize less than 1/2 of the available space in the offensive zone because he's too scared of taking any risks.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:36 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Yossarian54 View Post
Perhaps, perhaps not. Teams like Philadelphia and Tampa are absolutely desperate for defence. The problem with all this Bieksa/Edler speculation is the NTCs. I doubt we see them asked or, should it come to it, waived.

We are essentially locked in to this roster for another year. Trading the Sedins does not work on so many levels I would feel stupid stating them. We will see a goalie move, a Ballard move and at least one of Booth, Raymond and Roy jettisoned (possibly even two of those 3); the cap dictates that. So we will be forced to change the supporting cast, probably in favour of prospects like Schroeder, for reasons of cap hit.

Coaching is the only real change we can make next year. And after the PP, the d-pairings and the ****ing tip and chase entry, it is a change that needs to be made.
I agree with Bieksa. But Edler's NTC doesn't kick in until July.

The team must trade Edler for forward help imo. I'd love it if they found a way to convince Bieksa to waive his NTC but I don't think that's happening.

Move Edler for either a good, upcoming 3rd line C (Couturier) or a 2nd line LW (I'd love to move Edler for Tampa's 1st round pick and a shot at Drouin, not sure if Tampa makes that trade though).

We still have holes to fill, but it's a start. It might look something like

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Drouin - Kesler - Kassian
Higgins - 3rd line C - Hansen

or

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
2nd line LW - Kesler - Kassian
Higgins - Couturier - Hansen

We still need that extra forward, and we need a RH puckmover to play with Garrison, but it's a start.

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05-06-2013, 10:37 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Bieksa has no value outside of Vancouver, though. Only us would think he's worth as much as Hamhuis.
Totally agree. Bieksa has very less value to other teams than he does to us. Edler is someone that would still command some value on the trade market (although substantially less than 2 years ago).

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05-06-2013, 10:45 AM
  #265
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I honestly don't think there are many potential suitors for the Sedins. No contending team just has 12mil of capspace lying around. I also don't think any contender in the right mind will trade their top forwards for the Sedins either since they now know what the Sedins are like in the playoffs. Additionally, no rebuilding team is going to want two guys in their 30s with only one year left on their contract. I think the only potential team that will be interested in the Sedins would be Winnipeg since they really want to make the playoffs for their fans and are weak up front. However, Canuck fans need to realize that a potential trade with Winnipeg is not going to bring back Evander Kane, Mark Scheifele or Dustin Byfuglien. It'll more likely revolve around RFA guys like Wheeler and Little.

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05-06-2013, 11:04 AM
  #266
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I think the first step of a re-tool would probably be to fire the person who put the team in this mess: Mike Gillis. He's the one who mismanaged a team that was one win away from a Cup out of contender status. Yes there have been injuries, but his trades and signings in the last 2 seasons (and beyond, though they didn't start hurting the team until now) have all been "1-step forward 2-steps back" type of moves.

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05-06-2013, 11:21 AM
  #267
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Okay..should be an easy fix in theory:

- Trade Raymonds rights for whatever pick you can get
- Trade Luongo for picks/prospects
- Hire a new coach and consult with him to see if he has any need for Ballard or Booth. If not, buy them out or trade them for whatever you can get.
- Consult with new coach to see if he wants to keep Edler around as well. If not, trade for big return.
- Sign/Trade for a legitimate top 6 player and Edler replacement if need be.
- Re-sign Lapierre.
- Find some more 4th liners who can play at least 10 mins in the playoffs without taking stupid penalties.
- Sign Torres

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05-06-2013, 11:33 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
This team was one goal away from being bounced in the first round three years in a row. This is not a good team and this core is broken. I'm really amazed that people want to keep this same garbage team. This is exactly how you become the Calgary Flames.

Look, I said our offense was terrible and that would be our undoing, and I was right. I've also said that if this team continues the same path we will become the new Flames. That's something I really don't want to have happen because rather than one year of suffering it'll be at least a decade of suffering. We simply need to move on from this core. They couldn't get it done, they play with no emotion, we have a delusional captain who thinks they played well last night, we need to move on.
Calgary was a team that after making it to the Cup finals then getting a year off with the lockout overturned half their roster. For the next few seasons they lost each time in the first round, and every summer there was more major turnovers in the roster.

Calgary fell to where they are because Sutter made his top 4-5 players his BFF's and treated everyone else on the roster like interchangeable ****. When they fell right out of the playoffs, they kept on trying each successive year and continued failing. As Iginla and Kipper aged they had no one coming up to replace them, and by the time they finally admitted defeat and got around to trading them they were old and washed up.

Canucks aren't anything like Calgary, at least not until we continue a downward spiral for a good 5 years.

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05-06-2013, 11:35 AM
  #269
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Calgary was a team that after making it to the Cup finals then getting a year off with the lockout overturned half their roster. For the next few seasons they lost each time in the first round, and every summer there was more major turnovers in the roster.

Calgary fell to where they are because Sutter made his top 4-5 players his BFF's and treated everyone else on the roster like interchangeable ****. When they fell right out of the playoffs, they kept on trying each successive year and continued failing. As Iginla and Kipper aged they had no one coming up to replace them, and by the time they finally admitted defeat and got around to trading them they were old and washed up.

Canucks aren't anything like Calgary, at least not until we continue a downward spiral for a good 5 years.
Why wait the 5 years? Unless just making the playoffs and then being embarrassed is good enough for you?

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05-06-2013, 11:37 AM
  #270
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Canucks aren't anything like Calgary, at least not until we continue a downward spiral for a good 5 years.
Not like Calgary of today.

A lot like Calgary of 5 years ago.

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05-06-2013, 11:39 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
Okay..should be an easy fix in theory:

- Trade Raymonds rights for whatever pick you can get
- Trade Luongo for picks/prospects
- Hire a new coach and consult with him to see if he has any need for Ballard or Booth. If not, buy them out or trade them for whatever you can get.
- Consult with new coach to see if he wants to keep Edler around as well. If not, trade for big return.
- Sign/Trade for a legitimate top 6 player and Edler replacement if need be.
- Re-sign Lapierre.
- Find some more 4th liners who can play at least 10 mins in the playoffs without taking stupid penalties.
- Sign Torres
A slight problem with your plan is Luongo has almost no trade value. A 2nd, 3rd, and Scrivens was too much for Toronto even.

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05-06-2013, 11:42 AM
  #272
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Why wait the 5 years? Unless just making the playoffs and then being embarrassed is good enough for you?
Exactly! Management needs to grow a pair, admit defeat, and make a few bold moves instead of treading water before sinking. This team is closer to being where CGY is then most people want to believe. We are a cpl seasons away from having older players clearly declining with very little value. Waiting until then will do nothing to help restock the cupboards. Now is the time to strike and make some bold changes.

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05-06-2013, 11:42 AM
  #273
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A slight problem with your plan is Luongo has almost no trade value. A 2nd, 3rd, and Scrivens was too much for Toronto even.
That's not even a reliable rumour. Dreger changed his tune significantly after the TD passed and he came on radio talking about it.

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05-06-2013, 11:45 AM
  #274
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That's not even a reliable rumour. Dreger changed his tune significantly after the TD passed and he came on radio talking about it.
I'm just going with what Damian Cox wrote in the Star today with that supposedly the final asking price, or at least that's what his "sources" tell him. Nonetheless Luongo's trade value seems to be somewhat overinflated in this thread. I like him as a goalie (more than Schneider) but I just don't see a GM making a stupid trade for him and his contract. However I really hope I'm wrong an a non-Nonis GM pays whatever Gillis wants.

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05-06-2013, 11:50 AM
  #275
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I honestly think its Schnieder who will be shipped out in the end....its sad, but clearly Luongo is proving difficult to move. If you deal Schneieder you get more return, and the drama of the goalie questions all go away which is a benefit to the team IMO. i'd rather see Schnieder stay, but logic is now stating that the smarter move could be to dangle Corey instead of Roberto.

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