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It's Re-Tooling Time

View Poll Results: Well?
Go full rebuild, trading away practically everyone and starting fresh 51 16.89%
Retool, trading away some core players and some management changes 223 73.84%
Stand pat and hope for the best 13 4.30%
Cut off any dead weight and go all in for next year or the following year by selling off futures 15 4.97%
Voters: 302. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:26 PM
  #351
opendoor
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
Why does it have to be swapping one pair of highly-paid stars for another? Look at Ottawa. There is a team that has 1 legitimate superstar (Karlsson) and 1 star (Spezza) who isn't even playing this playoffs. Yet they have assembled a team of good, young talent from a variety of sources (draft, trades), never once finishing last overall nor missing the playoffs for an extended period of time. They have great team speed, are well coached, a well-diversified offense, and are supported by a great goalie.

Is this model so flat out ridiculous? We've got the goalie, a comparable centre (Kesler), and some talented Dmen (no Karlsson obviously). If we make an effort to bring in some fast, skilled young players (starting with Kassian and extending to Jensen and Gaunce when they are ready, but also looking to add to our young forwards) who are given a chance to make a difference on this team, I don't see it as being too far fetched. Of course there is risk, that is inherent in making any change. However I don't see it as being as risky as firing the coach and assuming everything else will suddenly be better ...
Ottawa barely made the playoffs and finished 14th in the league on the back of what I believe is the highest team sv% in NHL history at .933 which was 10 points higher than 2nd place.

You given them a more realistic (but still elite) sv% and they allow 15-20 more GA and probably don't make the playoffs. You give them the sv% they had in 11-12 and they're probably down with Carolina and Tampa.

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05-06-2013, 08:27 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Then we can't change the culture in a meaningful way.
Alfredson is still captain of the Sens still.

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05-06-2013, 08:29 PM
  #353
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Sorry, did I miss when Calgary blew up their aging core after several years of futility? Did they manage to get something for Iginla while he was still worth something and not an aging, soon-to-be-UFA? Did they get some assets for Kiprusoff before he decided to call it a career? Did they avoid making one UFA disaster after another to prop up an aging core that was clearly not getting the job done anymore?

Cause if not, then you are talking out your *** by saying that these moves would make us Calgary, when in fact they are the exact opposite of the moves (or lack of moves) that moribund franchise has made the past 6 years ...
Calgary never had an aging core. Unless Iginla & Kiprusoff count as a core.

The Canucks do have an aging core.
You get to be like Calgary by trading away the core we do have for prospects, draft picks that have a very good chance of never turning into NHL talent.

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05-06-2013, 08:51 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by yourideahorse View Post
Not alot of practical or realistic ideas in this thread. But this hfb, of course where reactionary, emotional responses are king.
Not to say there won't be some drastic changes but "blowing it up" will not happen. A coaching change seems probable, Booth, Ballard, Raymond and Luongo going and based on the circumstances if a defenseman is going Edler is the best candidate.
if blowing it up doesn't happen then I'm no longer a fan of this team.

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05-06-2013, 08:58 PM
  #355
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if blowing it up doesn't happen then I'm no longer a fan of this team.
Win/win situation for you eh? If they blow it up you're satisfied. If they don't, you're still satisfied cause you're not a fan of the Canucks any more which means no more meltdowns and disappointments!

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05-06-2013, 08:59 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by GrogZilla View Post
Calgary never had an aging core. Unless Iginla & Kiprusoff count as a core.
Calgary had the very definition of an aging core.

Iggy and Kipper were both past their prime. So is tanguay. Cammy, Wideman, Hudler are at the beginning of their decline.

If Iggy and Kipper weren't Calgary's Core, who was?

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05-06-2013, 09:02 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by maroon 6 View Post
Win/win situation for you eh? If they blow it up you're satisfied. If they don't, you're still satisfied cause you're not a fan of the Canucks any more which means no more meltdowns and disappointments!
yeah that pretty much sums up how I feel. I think the Aquillini family know what's best and I can see them getting rid of Gillis if he doesn't get rid of Vigneault.

If nothing happens then why would I bother cheering for the team? Who wants to cheer for a team that has no chance of winning has has no bright young talent? might as well be a panthers 'fan'

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05-06-2013, 09:09 PM
  #358
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If the Sedins had the fire of PK Subban, we'd be much better.

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05-06-2013, 09:13 PM
  #359
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If the Sedins had the fire of PK Subban, we'd be much better.
No we'd be in the box and getting lit up on the PK again

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05-06-2013, 09:13 PM
  #360
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If the Sedins had the fire of PK Subban, we'd be much better.
I can agree although if subban was a canuck and he pulled the crap he did last sens game he would be suspended for 5 games. Mtl has been head hunting conacher and turris and its disgraceful

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05-06-2013, 10:48 PM
  #361
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You have the makings of a new 1st line there.

Who is going to play on your second line that would be better and more effective then the Sedins ? They would be a good sleeper line that could still make hay on the powerplay.

Funny how you bring up Ottawa. They did with Alfredson exactly what we should do with the Sedins. He's on the second line and he makes 4.8 million on a short term deal.Spezza makes 7 million dollars for awhile yet. Karlson makes 6.5 forever. You are right though. Ottawa re-tooled. They did not blow it up.
Problem with the Sedins - unlike Alfredson - is they play such a unique style that you can't fit them to a line, you have to fit the line to them. I find their slow-down, board-work & cycle style is not well suited to the playoffs, where speed, quickness, and an ability to capitalize quickly on turnovers is a more effective style. I don't think the Sedins can mesh into the 'new identity' that I am hoping the team moves forward with. I would like to see a more 'structured-kamikazee' identity like that shown by St. Louis where we have 9 skilled, fast, and/or strong forwards that can roll over the boards. None need to be Sedin-level in their skill, but neither are they slow and reliant on a tricky passing game to be effective. Ottawa was just an example of a team that has re-tooled without being stuck in Edmonton-pergatory. There are other examples out there I'm sure...

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05-06-2013, 10:58 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
Calgary had the very definition of an aging core.

Iggy and Kipper were both past their prime. So is tanguay. Cammy, Wideman, Hudler are at the beginning of their decline.

If Iggy and Kipper weren't Calgary's Core, who was?
Iggy & Kipper were the only core.
That was the problem.

The rest were all free agent signings in an attempt to hobble together a competitive team.

The Canucks sign free agents to plug holes & compliment their core, the Flames spent years trying to build a team with free agents around 2 players.

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05-06-2013, 11:12 PM
  #363
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I'd do terrible things to get Subban on the Canucks.

He's the exact player we need.

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05-06-2013, 11:14 PM
  #364
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I'd do terrible things to get Subban on the Canucks.

He's the exact player we need.
unfortunately he is more valuable than anyone on the Canucks

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05-06-2013, 11:18 PM
  #365
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Looking forward to the summer, Mike Gillis needs to put a second line together. Haven't had one for the better part of three years.

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05-06-2013, 11:31 PM
  #366
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If the Sedins are losing a step, he'll need to put together a first line and slide the Sedins down to a lesser role.

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05-06-2013, 11:37 PM
  #367
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I'd do terrible things to get Subban on the Canucks.

He's the exact player we need.
we drafted white and ellington over him lol.

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05-06-2013, 11:44 PM
  #368
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If the Sedins are losing a step, he'll need to put together a first line and slide the Sedins down to a lesser role.
Agreed. In my eyes, Vancouver has a great second line for next year, it's just a matter of who fills out the top spot that's now in question.

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05-06-2013, 11:49 PM
  #369
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I want to see the top 6 built around offensive players for a change. Behind the Sedins, the top 6 has been occupied with far too many defense first players. Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, Higgins etc...

With Burrows and Kesler in the top 6, Gillis should have tried to fill the other 2 positions with high end skill. Hopefully he has more luck in this regard this summer.

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05-06-2013, 11:54 PM
  #370
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But I thought we needed more grinders and less skill so we could compete in the playoffs................. Bi-polar fans - what ever beat us last is what we need

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05-06-2013, 11:57 PM
  #371
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But I thought we needed more grinders and less skill so we could compete in the playoffs................. Bi-polar fans - what ever beat us last is what we need
The Canucks are littered with grinders. I don't think anyone wanted more defense first players in the top 6...

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05-06-2013, 11:58 PM
  #372
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But I thought we needed more grinders and less skill so we could compete in the playoffs................. Bi-polar fans - what ever beat us last is what we need
It's made me wonder if fans are simply too fickle, or if they have extremely short terms memories, being incapable of recognizing patterns of failure.

The problem with this team since the SCF of 2011 has been a lack of offense, and the issue trickles from the top (#1 line), all the way down. For the past 2 seasons, the star players on this team simply haven't played like stars and as a result, this team has had to rely on goaltending and defense to bail them out.

It's like another poster said, why were people advocating getting Marcel Goc or a 3rd line center for so long? Do they intentionally turn a blind eye to what the issue is out of some need to live in denial? Or is it simply a case of being legitimately obtuse?

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05-07-2013, 12:09 AM
  #373
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It's like another poster said, why were people advocating getting Marcel Goc or a 3rd line center for so long?
Because this team didn't have a good defensive centre bebind Kesler. Put Goc out in the final minute of game 2 and this series might not be over right now...

The biggest problem with this team is their only goal come playoff time is to outhit their opponents at all costs and care more about winning scrums than puck battles.

The Canucks have always played their best when they focus on the puck and ignore the opposition. Unfortunately, they haven't been able to do that enough since their 1st loss to the Hawks in the playoffs and it's killed them because of it.

Bieksa is this teams leader and that's their biggest problem. No discipline, no focus and no composure. Far too emotional.

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05-07-2013, 12:12 AM
  #374
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It's made me wonder if fans are simply too fickle, or if they have extremely short terms memories, being incapable of recognizing patterns of failure.

The problem with this team since the SCF of 2011 has been a lack of offense, and the issue trickles from the top (#1 line), all the way down. For the past 2 seasons, the star players on this team simply haven't played like stars and as a result, this team has had to rely on goaltending and defense to bail them out.

It's like another poster said, why were people advocating getting Marcel Goc or a 3rd line center for so long? Do they intentionally turn a blind eye to what the issue is out of some need to live in denial? Or is it simply a case of being legitimately obtuse?
Because both strategies result in more offense. Yes, a legitimate top 6 player would add to our offense. But, just as we saw in 2010/2011, a true shutdown 3rd line C who can play 15 minutes a night and will soak up the defensive draws, can then lead to plum offensive starts and easier matchups.

A good shutdown C will free up Kesler and the twins to score more. Just as Malhotra did up until his injury, it was no coincidence Kesler scored 40 that year and Henrik won the Art Ross. It was a direct result of having a shutdown C who can play that much.

Get it now?

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05-07-2013, 12:12 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
Problem with the Sedins - unlike Alfredson - is they play such a unique style that you can't fit them to a line, you have to fit the line to them. I find their slow-down, board-work & cycle style is not well suited to the playoffs, where speed, quickness, and an ability to capitalize quickly on turnovers is a more effective style. I don't think the Sedins can mesh into the 'new identity' that I am hoping the team moves forward with. I would like to see a more 'structured-kamikazee' identity like that shown by St. Louis where we have 9 skilled, fast, and/or strong forwards that can roll over the boards. None need to be Sedin-level in their skill, but neither are they slow and reliant on a tricky passing game to be effective. Ottawa was just an example of a team that has re-tooled without being stuck in Edmonton-pergatory. There are other examples out there I'm sure...
This isn't a hockey pool. You have to make the best use of the assets you have. These Swedish guys don't like to move around. We have them, they will play for less money and we know what they are capable of.

You should not go out of your way to deplete the team of skill just to change the identity.

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