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It's Re-Tooling Time

View Poll Results: Well?
Go full rebuild, trading away practically everyone and starting fresh 51 16.89%
Retool, trading away some core players and some management changes 223 73.84%
Stand pat and hope for the best 13 4.30%
Cut off any dead weight and go all in for next year or the following year by selling off futures 15 4.97%
Voters: 302. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-06-2013, 03:40 AM
  #201
Nostradanglus
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Do you realize the cap is going down next year and the twins have NTCs? What team can afford to take in 12 million in salary? Why would the twins agree to be traded, and not just retire and return to Sweden as they have often said they will do before they can no longer play hockey?
Yeah it does sound like a tough order.

Off the top of my head, how about Ottawa?

Spezza + Turris for the Sedins

Ottawa gets two amazing new vikings to add to their Tres Kronor lineup (maybe they could get their 3rd jersey to be blue and yellow even :p). They enter more of a win-now mode with an arguably more talented roster.

The Sedins get to stay in a beautiful city in Canada for at least one more year and have less travel time. Moving to Ottawa from Vancouver is much more seamless for young families than say, moving to Florida where the culture and public support structure is so different. I believe the Sedins would waive their NTC quite happily if this were the case.

We get the change we want, Spezza is either re-upped or allowed to walk in two years and we get a good old Canadian local boy in a 22-year old Turris signed at a contract comfortable for second-line or elite 3rd line duty for 5 years.

The salary difference is 1.7m being added to Ottawa.

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Old
05-06-2013, 03:46 AM
  #202
Nostradanglus
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Originally Posted by SDK View Post
Why would Horton ever sign here?
What makes you think that he wouldn't if the money was right?

The fact that one of our former players injured him?

Good contract, good management, good coaching and good team make-up = who cares what jersey you are wearing. Plus Vancouver is an absolutely beautiful city.

Why would Max Talbot every play for Philly? I know! They believed in him and showed it with the contract they offered him.

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05-06-2013, 03:51 AM
  #203
Fat Tony
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Originally Posted by Nostradanglus View Post
Good contract, good management, good coaching and good team make-up = who cares what jersey you are wearing.
Doesn't sound like the Canucks.

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Old
05-06-2013, 03:56 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
based on the last 4 years I've watched both guys. Weiss was injured and had a terrible year his stock will be down while Roy wants a big payday. I think Weiss brings more intangibles, good faceoff percentage, decent enough offensively and can score rather than a playmaker. Derek Roy had that break out in 08 but hasn't been the same since.
I agree. Weiss would look good in our Top 6 and wouldn't cost assets. If we let Roy walk, I would def consider him.

At this point I would basically pay a UFA up to $5mill for a youngish good fit for Kes. From UFA, the guys I would be interested in would be Horton, Weiss and Roy.

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05-06-2013, 03:57 AM
  #205
IranCondraAffair
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Originally Posted by Nostradanglus View Post
Yeah it does sound like a tough order.

Off the top of my head, how about Ottawa?

Spezza + Turris for the Sedins

Ottawa gets two amazing new vikings to add to their Tres Kronor lineup (maybe they could get their 3rd jersey to be blue and yellow even :p). They enter more of a win-now mode with an arguably more talented roster.

The Sedins get to stay in a beautiful city in Canada for at least one more year and have less travel time. Moving to Ottawa from Vancouver is much more seamless for young families than say, moving to Florida where the culture and public support structure is so different. I believe the Sedins would waive their NTC quite happily if this were the case.

We get the change we want, Spezza is either re-upped or allowed to walk in two years and we get a good old Canadian local boy in a 22-year old Turris signed at a contract comfortable for second-line or elite 3rd line duty for 5 years.

The salary difference is 1.7m being added to Ottawa.
Ottawa fan who just happened to be reading the thread.

Ottawa is rebuilding. Making the playoffs the past two seasons has been gravy. I can pretty much guarantee that Ottawa has no intention of making a trade that makes them significantly older.

Right now, Ottawa only has two top-6 guys signed past next season. Want a hint as to their identities?

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05-06-2013, 04:02 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Fat Tony View Post
Doesn't sound like the Canucks.
Haha yeah.

I think in terms of management one can at least say that Mike Gillis has treated players very amicably (bar the Luongo situation). I think it is one of the reasons why we have been able to sign good players like Hamhuis and Garrison.

Coaching can be changed by ownership if they have the balls to do it.

In terms of team-makeup, I think we are actually a comparatively good team on paper that would be attractive to players looking for good line-mates. We have good G and good D. I think we bring alot to the table in terms of a franchise for players hitting free agency. Get your henchmen Aquilini brothers to make our problems disappear, starting with AV.

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05-06-2013, 04:17 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by IranCondraAffair View Post
Ottawa fan who just happened to be reading the thread.

Ottawa is rebuilding. Making the playoffs the past two seasons has been gravy. I can pretty much guarantee that Ottawa has no intention of making a trade that makes them significantly older.

Right now, Ottawa only has two top-6 guys signed past next season. Want a hint as to their identities?
I'm happy to see Ottawa's success lately. And Karlsson is an absolute dream to watch skate. How did you get him 15th overall?

Honestly I didn't check on Turris's performance this year before making my post and I was surprised he was the joint points-leader for the team this year. I hate using stats, but if you look at his points-leading 29pts in comparison to Henrik's 45pts or even Daniel's 40pts, you can see that there is definitely value for both teams in this trade. I understand Spezza and Karlsson being out for the regular season show in your other player's points totals.

If the Sedins agreed to a sign-and-trade to Ottawa, would this be of more interest to you? I guess in essence I am wondering if you and other Ottawa fans would like the Sedins enough to part with a good young player like Turris and a comparable player in Spez if they were to sign a longer deal there.

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Old
05-06-2013, 04:22 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
Horton is way too inconsistent to be giving 5m as a forward, rather go after Clarkson or Stephen Weiss.



Best suggestion in this thread.

The Canucks top 6 needs a significant overhaul and someone like Clarkson would be a good start.

I'd offer someone like Clarkson a 4 year deal at 5.5 per and then trade Burrows as part of a package for some young top six talent.

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Old
05-06-2013, 04:26 AM
  #209
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retool the entire top 6. with youth players. trade edler before his ntc kicks in.

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Old
05-06-2013, 04:56 AM
  #210
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This is all a result of bad karma for the way we handled Luongo.

1. Kesler should be captain.
2. Fire AV and Gillis
3. Buyout Ballard and Booth
4. Get rid of all our Swedes, nothing against them but I am tired of Sweden being the face of Vancouver.
5. Schneider or Luongo? Schneider is probably easier to move. Luongo played pretty good this series.
6. Get rid of Raymond.
7. Get rid of that ****** whale Logo
8. Stop playing ****** music
9. Can we actually play young players on our bottom lines instead of penalty liabilities like Weise and Lappy
10. Move the team because clearly the refs hate us and a cup will never come to Vancouver
11. Get an NFL team in Vancouver.

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Old
05-06-2013, 05:26 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
20 G two way center on the third line is a horrible thing right? Better than Derek Roy
They can't afford a guy like that on the third line.

Unless you want to go with no wingers.

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05-06-2013, 05:27 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Nostradanglus View Post
Yeah it does sound like a tough order.

Off the top of my head, how about Ottawa?

Spezza + Turris for the Sedins

Ottawa gets two amazing new vikings to add to their Tres Kronor lineup (maybe they could get their 3rd jersey to be blue and yellow even :p). They enter more of a win-now mode with an arguably more talented roster.

The Sedins get to stay in a beautiful city in Canada for at least one more year and have less travel time. Moving to Ottawa from Vancouver is much more seamless for young families than say, moving to Florida where the culture and public support structure is so different. I believe the Sedins would waive their NTC quite happily if this were the case.

We get the change we want, Spezza is either re-upped or allowed to walk in two years and we get a good old Canadian local boy in a 22-year old Turris signed at a contract comfortable for second-line or elite 3rd line duty for 5 years.

The salary difference is 1.7m being added to Ottawa.
Except at this point Spezza is better than either Sedin.

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05-06-2013, 05:28 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Nostradanglus View Post
I'm happy to see Ottawa's success lately. And Karlsson is an absolute dream to watch skate. How did you get him 15th overall?

Honestly I didn't check on Turris's performance this year before making my post and I was surprised he was the joint points-leader for the team this year. I hate using stats, but if you look at his points-leading 29pts in comparison to Henrik's 45pts or even Daniel's 40pts, you can see that there is definitely value for both teams in this trade. I understand Spezza and Karlsson being out for the regular season show in your other player's points totals.

If the Sedins agreed to a sign-and-trade to Ottawa, would this be of more interest to you? I guess in essence I am wondering if you and other Ottawa fans would like the Sedins enough to part with a good young player like Turris and a comparable player in Spez if they were to sign a longer deal there.
Well it starts by having a scouting department that isn't worthless and ends with the GM listening to them.


At that point you actually have to develop guys, but essentially the Canucks are screwed well before that stage.

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05-06-2013, 06:45 AM
  #214
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Get the Sedins to play in Sweden next season for Olympic purposes. Toll the year contractually. Slip Sedins back in the line up as second liners, after the cap crunch is over.

This solves everything, almost. The team won't have to hide Luongo somewhere. The team can sign Roy. All good.

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05-06-2013, 06:58 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post

Get a legitimate 4th line. What is building a 4th line such a ****show for this ****ing franchise? Year after year in the playoffs our opponents 4th lines play 10 minutes a night, while ours play 2. Does anyone else see a problem there? For ****s sake get a ****ing 4th line. It's really not that hard.


It's harder than you think.

If you do it through UFA, you end up signing guys like Higgins (who is a decent player) but pay him UFA prices which you cannot afford in a cap world.

The 4th line needs to be young (and cheap) guys that you build through the system. The Canucks model of trading draft picks for immediate needs has robbed them of the prospect pool required to fill the bottom 6 forwards of cheaper players with some upside.

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05-06-2013, 07:32 AM
  #216
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Re-tool. Don't rebuild.
Easy to say.
I don't think Nuck fans could stomach that.
(Think of how ridiculously impatient/crazy/unrealistic we were, when we were contending)

Trade one of Luongo/Schneider
Trade one of Bieksa/Edler (only for a huge overpayment)...with a replacement UFA/trade planned ahead.
Let Raymond walk.
Dump Booth/Ballard.

Get a quality Bottom 6 Centre. Boyd Gordon maybe?
or someone else who can fill the Manny role. (His absence has been understated.)
Play the kids.

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05-06-2013, 08:36 AM
  #217
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I don't see the defence changing much. The team is more or less stuck with the current group and I'm having hard time coming up with a scenario that would significantly improve the blueline, anyway. Just doesn't seem very realistic in a real world (NHL13 is other thing). Tanev, Corrado and other young D aswell (Andersson, Tommernes, Price, Polasek, NCAA guys; at least one of these players will make it to the NHL sooner or later) will have larger role as we progress here but not a lot else will most likely change other than Ballard will be 100% gone and Alberts is probably gone too. They might sign one veteran to kind of replace Alberts but the biggest change will be that depth will be younger and hopefully better.

Forward group is where should be some changes. Out of regulars, Lapierre and Raymond should be 100% gone. Booth is a question mark because I think that, despite everything that has happened, I still think his style could be useful for the Canucks. I'd absolutely love to see Booth gone and replaced with a better player with similar playstyle to play in that secondary scoring role, but at the same time I realize it might be very difficult thing to do and there's been a lot of "grass is greener" thinking going on here on HF regarding this subject. Don't get me wrong, this would be my number one priority this summer, replace Booth with a better player, but at the same time I wouldn't make a change just for the sake of doing something. If someone like Ryder is best we could get, I'd rather just keep Booth.

Roy shouldn't be re-signed either, when comparing salaries I think Schroeder is the better player. Canucks need Kassian and Schroeder to be better than this year and make more of an impact. It's not like Chicago went out and signed/traded all the depth they now have. Guys like Stalberg, Shaw, Saad etc have developed in the system and become important parts of their team, and this is what needs to happen with guys like Schroeder and Kassian.

And of course goaltending is the obvious issue that will get solved this summer. And new coaching staff will be a big change.


Last edited by Vajakki: 05-06-2013 at 08:51 AM.
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05-06-2013, 08:52 AM
  #218
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At the very least bring in someone new worth watching. I don't wanna just see this same old stale core with nothing significant added. They need to look to the future of the first line, bring in the next star that's gonna lead this team. This fanbase needs some hope.

If it's a choice between being semi-competitive with boring defensive hockey or a rebuild I'd rather go rebuild. But looking at the contract situation I doubt they start a rebuild until at least the end of next season.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:53 AM
  #219
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Please just get rid of luongo or schneider. the drama in net is killing me.

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05-06-2013, 09:10 AM
  #220
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Retool.

Starting with new coach. Edler and his new contract should be traded and could probably bring in some scoring. There doesn't have to be a total rebuild. If Management grew some balls and made a few bold moves this off season we could retool and be right back to being a top team sooner rather then later.

This off season will probably be one of the most important in a long time. It could be the start of a new era or the start of tough times for Van fans.

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05-06-2013, 09:21 AM
  #221
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Edler, Bieksa, Ballard, Cam Barker, Weise, Sestito, Alberts, Booth, Roy, Luongo, Lapierre, Kassian too (if he continues this kind of play) all needs to be gone.

Also Ryan Kesler needs to be the captain.

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05-06-2013, 09:24 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Grumbler View Post
Edler, Bieksa, Ballard, Cam Barker, Weise, Sestito, Alberts, Booth, Roy, Luongo, Lapierre, Kassian too (if he continues this kind of play) all needs to be gone.

Also Ryan Kesler needs to be the captain.
that's a little overkill man. lol

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05-06-2013, 09:26 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Grumbler View Post
Edler, Bieksa, Ballard, Cam Barker, Weise, Sestito, Alberts, Booth, Roy, Luongo, Lapierre, Kassian too (if he continues this kind of play) all needs to be gone.

Also Ryan Kesler needs to be the captain.
Continues what kind of play? Kassian has been one of the best players despite limited ice-time.

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05-06-2013, 09:28 AM
  #224
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Continues what kind of play? Kassian has been one of the best players despite limited ice-time.
0 points. We need players that can score. I know he's still young but I think his ceiling is very limited.

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05-06-2013, 09:29 AM
  #225
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Continues what kind of play? Kassian has been one of the best players despite limited ice-time.
Hey can't score, can't make plays, can't pass and can't really hold onto the puck... All he does is hit well and fight. He is a good fourth liner maybe, but he should not be anymore than that unless he raises his game.

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