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Lessons from the playoffs on how to build this team

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05-13-2013, 10:01 PM
  #1
viper0220
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Lessons from the playoffs on how to build this team

The title says it all, after watching the playoffs, how would you guys like to see the Winnipeg Jets team built going foward to Stanley Cup contender satus. Some of my thoughts and observations:

After watching the Bruins and the Maple Leafs series, you need a really good head coach. Randy Caryle did a very good job, going into the series everyone was saying the Bruins are going to sweep the Leafs but with Caryle's smart coaching, the Leafs took this series to 7 games.


Watching the Bruins play, you need big wingers, Lucic and Horton and the Bruins wingers really took it to the Leafs defence and they grinded them down trough out the series.

You need a goaltender that can steal you a game or a series(this is a given).


Good specail teams(PP and PK).


You need top 2 defencemen that can play heavy minutes, Chara and Seidenberg were great examples, they both played over or near 25 minutes per game.


You need depth, the Boston Bruins 3rd and 4th lines were key to them winning the series.


You need a good center(and depth at center postion), you need to win the faceoffs and stuff like that.


You need good defence depth.


It does not have to be from these playoffs or from these series(just a big Leafs fan) but what kind of mold do you guys like to see this team take going forward?


Last edited by viper0220: 05-13-2013 at 10:08 PM.
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05-13-2013, 10:04 PM
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tbcwpg
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I think the Jets are about a year behind the Leafs development-wise. They have a lot of that but they need experience. Bogosian can be that big minute eater but he's too young for it now, Byfuglien plays big minutes but not in a Chara-esque role.

RW is a big hole, obviously. That really needs to be addressed.

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05-13-2013, 10:13 PM
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garret9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
I think the Jets are about a year behind the Leafs development-wise. They have a lot of that but they need experience. Bogosian can be that big minute eater but he's too young for it now, Byfuglien plays big minutes but not in a Chara-esque role.

RW is a big hole, obviously. That really needs to be addressed.
I think they are Jets are ahead and TML lucked out having the highest team shooting percentage ever seen (at least since the last lockout) even though they are not a team of elite snippers.

The only department I'd put them ahead is I'd say Reimer > Pavelec, but I think Reimer is a 0.910-20 guy not really a consistent >0.920 guy.

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05-13-2013, 10:14 PM
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Duke749
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Why are you using ONE series to base this off of? Seems silly.

Essentially though, you look at other series, you're gonna get the same answers.

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05-13-2013, 10:15 PM
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viper0220
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
I think the Jets are about a year behind the Leafs development-wise. They have a lot of that but they need experience. Bogosian can be that big minute eater but he's too young for it now, Byfuglien plays big minutes but not in a Chara-esque role.

RW is a big hole, obviously. That really needs to be addressed.


Totally agree with you tbcwpg about the Jets being a year behind the Leafs in terms of development. I think this team has holes up front, that should be dealt with by trading a defencemen. We really need experience.


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05-13-2013, 10:18 PM
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viper0220
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Originally Posted by Duke89 View Post
Why are you using ONE series to base this off of? Seems silly.

Essentially though, you look at other series, you're gonna get the same answers.


I based it off this series because this was the one I was paying the most attention to, like I said on my first post, you can use these playoffs or past playoffs, this series or series from the past or other series from these playoffs.


Last edited by viper0220: 05-13-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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05-13-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I think they are Jets are ahead and TML lucked out having the highest team shooting percentage ever seen (at least since the last lockout) even though they are not a team of elite snippers.

The only department I'd put them ahead is I'd say Reimer > Pavelec, but I think Reimer is a 0.910-20 guy not really a consistent >0.920 guy.

You might be right garret but it was not total luck, the Leafs have a good head coach.

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05-13-2013, 10:29 PM
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garret9
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Originally Posted by viper0220 View Post
You might be right garret but it was not total luck, the Leafs have a good head coach.
Don't know about that (at least in the regular season)...

Who did Carlyle give the most OZS and therefore the most scoring opportunities from the coach:
1) Frazer McLarren
2) Colton Orr

Then bunch of other weird things:
Orr/McLarren over Frattin
Pylons over Gardiner
Pushing Grabo down the depth charts
etc,etc...

The team was actually more outshot and out-chanced than the previous two TMLs... don't know if coaching actually helped them.

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05-13-2013, 10:31 PM
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You also need a few d-bag types who will take the lacking application of the rulebook and use the opposition's best players as punching bags.

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05-13-2013, 10:32 PM
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The Jets have a lot of components in place already:

We have good team size/speed.

We have 2 legit top pairing guys in Enstrom and Bogosian and 2 and 1/2 legit first line wingers all of which can score, bang and skate. We also have a lot of offensive capabilities on the back end and a whole slew of depth on the bottom pairing.

We also have the pieces to ice a very sound 4th line and a couple of pieces for the third line.

Biggest areas of need:

Goaltending: The team needs Pavs to take the next step next year and put up a consistently good year.

Second and Third line: We need to add pieces to round out our 2nd and third lines as Kane can't do it all on his own.

More balance in the top four: I think we are a little too offensive heavy on the backend. I would like to see a little more balance be bringing in a couple of two-way guys that can defend as well as move the puck.

Obviously some of these holes can be filled internally by guys like Scheifele and Trouba, but some will need to be filled externally.

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05-13-2013, 10:35 PM
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broinwhyteridge
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
The Jets have a lot of components in place already:

Obviously some of these holes can be filled internally by guys like Scheifele and Trouba, but some will need to be filled externally.
As long as the waiver wire exists we will never be without options.

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05-13-2013, 10:50 PM
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garret9
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Originally Posted by broinwhyteridge View Post
As long as the waiver wire exists we will never be without options.
I don't get the mocking of the waiver wire...
Jets' didn't have much of anything in St. John's for forwards and so that's what the waiver wire is for and was used (from a team perspective).
It's supplementing the farm that was almost non-existant due to previous management follies.

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05-13-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I think they are Jets are ahead and TML lucked out having the highest team shooting percentage ever seen (at least since the last lockout) even though they are not a team of elite snippers.

The only department I'd put them ahead is I'd say Reimer > Pavelec, but I think Reimer is a 0.910-20 guy not really a consistent >0.920 guy.
You're the stats guy so I don't think a debate with you would end well for me, but it seemed to me that a couple of Jets players were shooting above average. I think Ladd, for one, was very high in shooting percentage.

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05-13-2013, 11:12 PM
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garret9
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
You're the stats guy so I don't think a debate with you would end well for me, but it seemed to me that a couple of Jets players were shooting above average. I think Ladd, for one, was very high in shooting percentage.
No. You're totally right; LLW all had some nice On-Ice SH%. (I use On-Ice SH% as that is the team's SH% when you're on the ice which better shows luck).

SH% change with natural variance, but on the most part for every lucky guy you're likely to have an equally unlucky guy (see 2011-12 Fehr or 2012-13 Jokinen/Burmistrov) in those departments and should average out. Toronto

Six highest TML On-Ice SH% with 15+ GP
Lupul 17.92
Kadri 14.44
Kulemin 13.16
Frattin 12.98
McClement 11.76
Bozak 11.06

Six highest Jets On-Ice SH% with 15+ GP:
Ladd 11.41
Wheeler 10.85
Little 10.79
Miettinen 9.24
Kane 9.21
Wright 8.82

You can see which one is inflated a lot more.
Top notch generational talents can keep 10-11 but only one hockey player has been more than 12% for more than two seasons since the 2007.


Team SH%:
TOR: 11.0% (1st)
WPG: 8.7% (10th)

So TOR as a team (so including their 4th line) scored as many goals/shot on average as the Jets did when Wheeler/Little were on the ice... or their teams for Ovechkin, or Toews, or Perry, or Lecavalier, etc, etc.


Last edited by garret9: 05-13-2013 at 11:19 PM.
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05-13-2013, 11:17 PM
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Agreed on the big wingers. The Kings and St. Louis were killing each other but would easily have dominated any other first round opponent physically. Watch LA steamroll the Sharks. Both teams and Boston have at least two bruisers that can score and wear defensemen down.

Horton is a UFA and Boston could possibly let him go. I wasn't too excited about him during the regular season. But like many big guys, he's made for the post season. I'm really thinking he could fit in well here.

Other than that, I think we were playing with playoff style intensity the last 10 games of the season. We didn't have the talent to run with some of the top teams but our veterans seem to be up to league par from an intensity/work ethic standpoint.

What this team needs is one or two key acquisitions that improve our weaknesses so that we have the potential to improve as a team.

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05-13-2013, 11:37 PM
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Duke749
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Agreed on the big wingers. The Kings and St. Louis were killing each other but would easily have dominated any other first round opponent physically. Watch LA steamroll the Sharks. Both teams and Boston have at least two bruisers that can score and wear defensemen down.

Horton is a UFA and Boston could possibly let him go. I wasn't too excited about him during the regular season. But like many big guys, he's made for the post season. I'm really thinking he could fit in well here.

Other than that, I think we were playing with playoff style intensity the last 10 games of the season. We didn't have the talent to run with some of the top teams but our veterans seem to be up to league par from an intensity/work ethic standpoint.

What this team needs is one or two key acquisitions that improve our weaknesses so that we have the potential to improve as a team.
Wouldn't be so sure. SJ has some solid center depth. They certainly got a chance against the Kings. The biggest difference? In net.

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05-14-2013, 12:47 AM
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The biggest obstacles to winning the playoffs is just getting there. Once your in anythign can happen. Whats keeping us from getting in? A good starter in net, or a good tandem. A little bit more depth at defense, and, a good 2nd line.

Yeah that's a lot of problems

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05-14-2013, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I think they are Jets are ahead and TML lucked out having the highest team shooting percentage ever seen (at least since the last lockout) even though they are not a team of elite snippers.

The only department I'd put them ahead is I'd say Reimer > Pavelec, but I think Reimer is a 0.910-20 guy not really a consistent >0.920 guy.
I say we are behind the Leafs. Had the canes been healthy all season long we would not have been in a playoff spot for so long. If anything we got lucky. Not to give the Leafs too much credit (they did have many lucky bounces) but they have enough scoring depth to out-score a lot of opponents. Our team desperately needs a second line and a goalie.

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05-14-2013, 02:23 AM
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I say we are behind the Leafs. Had the canes been healthy all season long we would not have been in a playoff spot for so long. If anything we got lucky. Not to give the Leafs too much credit (they did have many lucky bounces) but they have enough scoring depth to out-score a lot of opponents. Our team desperately needs a second line and a goalie.
The Leafs don't have the scoring depth to out score opponents. They just had a "perfect storm" of a lot of players overachieving in a shortened season.

We will see how the Canes do next year when healthy but I think they will be golfing after the regular season again.

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05-14-2013, 02:58 AM
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The Leafs don't have the scoring depth to out score opponents. They just had a "perfect storm" of a lot of players overachieving in a shortened season.

We will see how the Canes do next year when healthy but I think they will be golfing after the regular season again.
I see the Leafs in a similar position as the Sens. They have good prospects in the wings waiting for their chance and have decent scoring throughout their roster. They just rely too much on goons. They have questionable goaltending but as many said on the main boards, next year is Reimer's make or break year. I still believe we have a much better defense and more defensively responsible players, which will help us go further than just a first round appearance (whenever we make it!)

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05-14-2013, 06:45 AM
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broinwhyteridge
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Originally Posted by Resurrection View Post
The biggest obstacles to winning the playoffs is just getting there. Once your in anything can happen. Whats keeping us from getting in? A good starter in net, or a good tandem. A little bit more depth at defense, and, a good 2nd line.
Personally I think you've nailed it, if I've understood you correctly any ways.

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05-14-2013, 06:48 AM
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I don't get the mocking of the waiver wire...
Jets' didn't have much of anything in St. John's for forwards and so that's what the waiver wire is for and was used (from a team perspective).
It's supplementing the farm that was almost non-existant due to previous management follies.
Oh I agree... I just don't think you generally find "the missing link" to greatness on the waiver wire. How many more years will they rely on it before more than five of us are scratching our heads though?

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05-14-2013, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by broinwhyteridge View Post
Oh I agree... I just don't think you generally find "the missing link" to greatness on the waiver wire. How many more years will they rely on it before more than five of us are scratching our heads though?
They will use the waiver wire until their are better options on the farm. It speaks to an overall lack of organizational depth. Chevy isn't looking there for the missing link rather to fill holes when necessary. Overall organizational depth is the first step towards being able to contend. As of now we have little push from within for roster positions.

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05-14-2013, 07:25 AM
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In the playoffs it helps to have a player or two that is a real big difference-maker. In the Boston-TO series it was Lucic that emerged as that player. For the Jets, I think that Buff can emerge as that player. Despite his inconsistent play, I would be reluctant to trade Buff because I think he's one of the few Jets that can be a dominant player in the playoffs.

A really steady goalie is a must. I'm not sure Pavs is the guy, but I think we need to see him in the playoffs before being able to see if he's got the right stuff.

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05-14-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by broinwhyteridge View Post
Oh I agree... I just don't think you generally find "the missing link" to greatness on the waiver wire. How many more years will they rely on it before more than five of us are scratching our heads though?
Not trolling you serious question......I agree that "the missing link" doesn't come from the waiver wire although it can be a good resource. Where do you think it comes from?

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