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NHL.com announces Calder Trophy Finalists

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:42 PM
  #551
WarriorOfGandhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
I don't think this at all, I just think that Saad is better than Yakupov defensively.
I don't necessarily disagree, but because both play the least demanding defensive position their respective ability to prevent goals is much less important than their respective ability to create goals

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05-06-2013, 07:51 PM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post

How can you use stats to prove a qualifiable observation. Look at Toews corsi or GA/60 in previous years if you want. Or Hossa or Gagner. Is common knowledge Toews is great defensively and offensively too.

On the defensive sides he makes it easier for Saad as the game is simpler. Also he plays with a norris trophy winner and a TC member. Does that not contribute to his GA/60 score?

Offensively he plays with Toews and Hossa, both better then Gags/Hemsky, and both posted near similar even strength GF/60
I did.

Jonathan Toews Regular Season GA On/60
2011-2012: 2.84
2010-2011:2.27
2009-2010:2.41
2008-2009:2.29

This year: 1.60

Marian Hossa Regular Season GA On/60
2011-2012: 2.36
2010:2011: 2.26
2009-2010:2.05
2008-2009:2.12

This year: 1.13

Obviously, the fact that Toews and Hossa both post career high GA On/60 when put with Saad means that Saad is the greatest defensive rookie player ever.

Of course, I don't think that. I merely think that Saad is a good defensive player, and that the stats back that up. And he is certainly better than Yakupov, which the stats also back up.

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:53 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
You musn't have been paying much attention because I never said Yakupov was as good as Saad defensively. I literally never argued that once.
True, but then you also said that Saad was made by his linemates, and your posts have offered nothing to back this up save for describing his cushy situation.

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:55 PM
  #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
I don't necessarily disagree, but because both play the least demanding defensive position their respective ability to prevent goals is much less important than their respective ability to create goals
I agree, and you won't find me arguing that Saad is better than Yakupov offensively.

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05-06-2013, 07:55 PM
  #555
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It's a travesty that Brodin is not there.

He should be #1.

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05-06-2013, 07:55 PM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
I did.

Jonathan Toews Regular Season GA On/60
2011-2012: 2.84
2010-2011:2.27
2009-2010:2.41
2008-2009:2.29

This year: 1.60

Marian Hossa Regular Season GA On/60
2011-2012: 2.36
2010:2011: 2.26
2009-2010:2.05
2008-2009:2.12

This year: 1.13

Obviously, the fact that Toews and Hossa both post career high GA On/60 when put with Saad means that Saad is the greatest defensive rookie player ever.

Of course, I don't think that. I merely think that Saad is a good defensive player, and that the stats back that up. And he is certainly better than Yakupov, which the stats also back up.
No one ever said Saad wasn't a good defensive player or that he wasn't better defensively than Yakupov.

However offensively Yakupov put up better numbers playing with Gagner a rotation of other forwards and Smid and Petry behind him while Saad put up worse numbers with 4 Olympians on the ice with him constantly.

For a forward offensive game > defensive game. It's more important.

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:56 PM
  #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
It has nothing to do with playing with Toews, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook

Because of course those guys are equal to Gagner, Hemsky, Schultz's defensively
Or maybe Saad was put with those players, who handle the toughest competition on the Hawks, because of his defensive prowess?

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:58 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
No one ever said Saad wasn't a good defensive player or that he wasn't better defensively than Yakupov.
Sure, but some people said that he was made by his linemates.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
So? Saad is still better than Yakupov defensively, as the other two stats I showed clearly demonstrated.
Who isn't going to be better defensively when you top 5 line mates are as follows

1. Toews
2. Hossa
3. Keith
4. Seabrook
5. Hjalmarsson

Compared to

1. Gagner
2. Petry
3. Smid
4. J. Schultz
5. N. Schultz

Saad likely had the cushiest top 5 line mates in the NHL.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:00 PM
  #559
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Bordin and Yakupov vs Saad.

I think Saad benefited from being on a good team, but still.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:06 PM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Sure, but some people said that he was made by his linemates.

EDIT:
So your under the impression Saad would have similar defensive numbers on the Oilers?

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:09 PM
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Sure, but some people said that he was made by his linemates.

EDIT:
Not saying the same thing at all.

The guy you quoted is saying he never said Saad was bad defensively, but that he was made better because of teammates. Not that he was bad before, but that he is a good defensive player made better, and that his numbers would not be as high as on the Oilers.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:13 PM
  #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
I did.

Jonathan Toews Regular Season GA On/60
2011-2012: 2.84
2010-2011:2.27
2009-2010:2.41
2008-2009:2.29

This year: 1.60

Marian Hossa Regular Season GA On/60
2011-2012: 2.36
2010:2011: 2.26
2009-2010:2.05
2008-2009:2.12

This year: 1.13

Obviously, the fact that Toews and Hossa both post career high GA On/60 when put with Saad means that Saad is the greatest defensive rookie player ever.

Of course, I don't think that. I merely think that Saad is a good defensive player, and that the stats back that up. And he is certainly better than Yakupov, which the stats also back up.
Thanks for posting these stats.

Normally, Yak supporters, you could assume that a rookie placed on a line with a pair of Selke nominees, and assume that his stats largely, if not entirely, benefitted due to his linemates defensive prowess.

The stats above show that Saad is the exception, not the rule. In fact Saad is so good defensively in his own right (read: he DOESN'T rely on Toews and Hossa) that he actually had a positive effect on te numbers of Toews and Hossa, all while facing the second toughest competition amongst Hawks forwards( thought I read this somewhere, is this correct?)

What Saad supporters are saying is that the stats don't support that he is a product of Toews and Hossa; he's a defensive stalwart in his own right, and that he might just be providing Selke caliber defense because he's that good at the two way game.

A large reason Toews and Hossa are widely regarded as amongst the best forwards in the game had to do with the completeness of their game- even when they don't have the puck they have a large positive influence on what happens on the ice. I challenge anyone to watch a dozen Hawks games from this season, watch Saad alongside Toews and Hossa, and tell me he's being carried. Saad is a complete player right now- obviously not to the same degree as Toews and Hossa, but he provides all of the same benefits that they do.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:16 PM
  #563
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Does it really matter who made it ?

Trophy was all Gallagher seriously. Best forward on a Division winner. No brainer really.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:27 PM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
It's a travesty that Brodin is not there.

He should be #1.
Indeed.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:33 PM
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Yep, this is exactly why he didn't get nominated. He didn't score a goal in all of March, not nearly as consistent as the other nominees.
But Landy wasn't a consistently prolific scorer last year when RNH was clearly the superior offensive threat all year. Oh wait he tied for points in 20 less games last year. Lost the Calder vote because he got injured it took the pack 20 games to catch back up and he still tied the leader. Nope robbed of a guaranteed Calder because he happened to slip and injure himself.

Fast forward one year Yakupov plays every game ties the scoring leader and has more goals. Not even nominated? This comes down to one thing. He refuses to be a robot and the media despises him for it. Take the fact that he isn't a good ole Canadian Boy add the "classless Russian factor". This combined with the East Coast bias and the poor kid never had a chance. I'm not saying he should have won the award but to not even get nominated after the justifications for Landy over RNH is just utter and jaw droppingly in excusable IMO.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:38 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by HabsCowboysOwn View Post
OMGZZZZZ no brodinzz orzz Yakupovzzz. Gtf over it people, Gallagher deserves it as much as they do. Only 3 players can be picked, but hey let's select 6. Stop whining and learn hockey kthanksbye.
I'll remember this post after Suter wins the Norris.

Also, after the Sens eliminate the Habs.

People have a right to be upset when the majority agree that Yakupov and Brodin should have been in the 3.

Stay classy

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Old
05-06-2013, 09:03 PM
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
Thanks for posting these stats.

Normally, Yak supporters, you could assume that a rookie placed on a line with a pair of Selke nominees, and assume that his stats largely, if not entirely, benefitted due to his linemates defensive prowess.

The stats above show that Saad is the exception, not the rule. In fact Saad is so good defensively in his own right (read: he DOESN'T rely on Toews and Hossa) that he actually had a positive effect on te numbers of Toews and Hossa, all while facing the second toughest competition amongst Hawks forwards( thought I read this somewhere, is this correct?)

What Saad supporters are saying is that the stats don't support that he is a product of Toews and Hossa; he's a defensive stalwart in his own right, and that he might just be providing Selke caliber defense because he's that good at the two way game.

A large reason Toews and Hossa are widely regarded as amongst the best forwards in the game had to do with the completeness of their game- even when they don't have the puck they have a large positive influence on what happens on the ice. I challenge anyone to watch a dozen Hawks games from this season, watch Saad alongside Toews and Hossa, and tell me he's being carried. Saad is a complete player right now- obviously not to the same degree as Toews and Hossa, but he provides all of the same benefits that they do.
Chicago Blackhawks as a team also reduced GA/G drastically this year. Down from 2.8 in 2011 & 2.4 in 2012 to 2 in 2013. Along with that Toews and Hossas # will go down, Saad played a role, but not the largest role.

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05-06-2013, 09:11 PM
  #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohheyhemsky View Post
Would have been nice to ride the coattails of Toews instead of, well you know, Belanger or Horcoff.


If individual play is strictly looked at as the guiding factor, Yakupov blows Saad out of the water.
Saad (with Toews and Hossa) were often matched against the other team's best one, and Saad had by far the best plus/minus of the contenders.

If defence and all around play count, Saad is a worthy contender.

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Old
05-06-2013, 09:59 PM
  #569
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Massives lulz @ people who are saying that yak should be there over saad because of points. get a clue and watch some games around the league. Saad had a much bigger impact game by game than yakupov did. Brodin was the best rookie by a clear margin this season, but of these candidates, i think Huberdeau takes it rather handily.

Also: this thread has shown me that people put a downright stupid amount of weight on a forward's defensive play. especially players who are paid for their offense.

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05-06-2013, 10:02 PM
  #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
But Landy wasn't a consistently prolific scorer last year when RNH was clearly the superior offensive threat all year. Oh wait he tied for points in 20 less games last year. Lost the Calder vote because he got injured it took the pack 20 games to catch back up and he still tied the leader. Nope robbed of a guaranteed Calder because he happened to slip and injure himself.

Fast forward one year Yakupov plays every game ties the scoring leader and has more goals. Not even nominated? This comes down to one thing. He refuses to be a robot and the media despises him for it. Take the fact that he isn't a good ole Canadian Boy add the "classless Russian factor". This combined with the East Coast bias and the poor kid never had a chance. I'm not saying he should have won the award but to not even get nominated after the justifications for Landy over RNH is just utter and jaw droppingly in excusable IMO.
dont be obtuse. it has nothing to do with nationality and to suggest it does is ridiculous. i guess the same thing happened when sid and ovi were rookies right? Oh wait.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:03 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
I'll remember this post after Suter wins the Norris.

Also, after the Sens eliminate the Habs.

People have a right to be upset when the majority agree that Yakupov and Brodin should have been in the 3.

Stay classy
"One guy said something stupid, so I hope for tons of misfortune for millions of other fans who have nothing to do with that stupid statement. That'll show that one guy!!"

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:19 PM
  #572
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This board is hilarious. "No Brodin? Fail"

Half of you whining that he isn't nominated probably have barely seen him play, and are just whining because he is lesser known and you are proud because you know his name. Stop being such whiny hipsters and thinking you know more than people who cover hockey for a living. You make me laugh.

Brodin is great, but I don't see him as any more deserving as those three nominees.
As i read the rant about hipsters wanting Brodin to be in the final 3
After looking at posters username and pic

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:22 PM
  #573
RattsSSV
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Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
It must be a tough year to be an Oilers fan. You guys didn't win the lottery, and you don't have a Calder finalist.
It's no big deal. In fact no Oiler has ever won the Calder. #EasternBias

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:49 PM
  #574
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Regardless of not getting nominated, here are some things that the voters should have considered about Yakupov.

- Besides the obvious of leading all rookies in goals, tied for lead in points

- It was his 18/19 year old season, junior to NHL

- Named second star for the month of April, I do believe that no other rookie was a top 3 player of the month this season

- Tied for 10th in the NHL amongst RW's for goals scored

- Tied for 23rd in the NHL amongst RW's for points

- If Edmonton offered Yakupov for one of Huberdeau, Gallagher or Saad, that teams GM would personally piggy back Yakupov from Edmonton to Florida, Montreal or Chicago.

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05-06-2013, 10:51 PM
  #575
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Oil fan here.

They got it right.

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