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Serge Savard:We need to get bigger

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05-07-2013, 11:27 AM
  #201
Poulet Kostopoulos
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I'm just saying he's not this big, intimidating devastator. He's not even Komisarek as far as the physicality.

I don't think we should put our hopes and dreams in this guy to be this physical presence that intimidates.
Emelin may not be super intimidating but he plays gritty, rough and with courage. He speared Seguin and got Chara on his face, then the next game versus Bruins, he goes for a huge hit on Lucic. He can hurt people with his game. That's fearless and courage, willing to sacrifice for the team. You think that's not better than freaking Komisarek???

Sure, if he was also intimidating like Frankenstein, that'd be awesome. But we can't have everything. The Emelin package as it is is pretty damn good in my book.

By the way, hope he'll return at 100%.

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05-07-2013, 11:30 AM
  #202
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Who would know who was better Savard or Robinson?The answer Scotty Bowman and he chose savard ahead of Robinson.Stats say Robinson but Bowman would no better.Bowman also says Brad Park was a little better than Robinson.

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05-07-2013, 11:38 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
And not a very good fighter, either.
Great at sucker punching though.

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05-07-2013, 11:51 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You think Michalek and Karlsson are 100%? You think missing Spezza doesn't show?

We're down for many reasons. Blaming injuries is silly.
Prust is not at 100%, nor is Gionta, nor is MaxPac, maybe not even Markov is. Eller, Emelin out. Four big guys not at 100% or out. Different teams have different depth.

Injuries is not the only factor but it IS a big factor. Timing of the injury is also a factor. Sens had time to work around the fact that Spezza is missing. Habs, not so much with Eller's injury.

Injuries and timing play a role. Claiming otherwise is insane.


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05-07-2013, 11:53 AM
  #205
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Just my opinion guys but the Habs do not necessarily have to get tougher. They rather have two opinions presented to them: Either they get bigger/tougher or they stop playing the tough game and start playing a fast-paced game. Nobody ever said that in order to win in playoffs you had to intimidate your opponents and win all the fights. What if the Habs would totally ignore all the physicality from the Sens, not start any scrum after the whistles ? I would drive the Sens crazy and most likely take them out of their game.

Montreal needs a way to get mentally stronger in the playoffs. It MB's solution is to get tougher/bigger, fine, but there are also other options to be successful in the playoffs.
The problem with this is that at some point tempers and emotions flare up and it doesn't matter if you try to play a speedy skill game , sometimes your opponent will just drag you though the mud no matter what. See : last game against the Sens , the 6-0 loss against the Leafs , the Boston beatdown when Carbo (or was it Gainey ?) decided to not dress Laraque and the Bruins players just jumped Habs player (Campbell on Spacek , Chara on Latendresse ect). Personally i'm sick and tired of bending over everytime it happens. I don,t think there is any other team who got bullied as much as the Habs in the last 5+ years

Speed and skill at the cost of size and thoughness has been the Habs mentality since the end of the 90's and the team went nowhere. There is a reason why the Habs keep getting eliminated by physical teams in the PO. They are small and the constant pounding the guys take just wear them down at some point and they become much less effective. You spend much more energy trying to move a 6"4 220 lbs guy if you are 5"8 180lbs then if you are 6"2 210.

A change in philosophy is clearly needed as far as i'm concerned.

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05-07-2013, 12:27 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by thom View Post
Who would know who was better Savard or Robinson?The answer Scotty Bowman and he chose savard ahead of Robinson.Stats say Robinson but Bowman would no better.Bowman also says Brad Park was a little better than Robinson.
Wayne Gretzky barely made his top 5, and Roy was number 4 or 5 at goalie.
Potvin better than Robinson? No effing way.

That's controversial in my opinion, at least opens the discussion about what attributes Bowman looked for in a player.

Robinson is better in my humble opinion, totally in the discussion for best defenseman in history (based on who I have actually seen personally)

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05-07-2013, 12:33 PM
  #207
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I don't think we need to get bigger because we can be succesful without doing so but we would certainly benefit from getting bigger so long as we don't sacrifice too much skill in doing so. Also bear in mind there's a lot of internal options that could help. If Eller overtakes DD on the depth chart, and Pacioretty gets back to driving the net that solves a lot of size issues in the top-6.

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05-07-2013, 12:41 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and yet, pretty much every "expert" think of the Habs as a fast team, guess you know better than pretty much any NHLers or commentators
Every "expert" had us finishing near the bottom of the league this year, so what's your point? We are a fast team, but so are many other teams. We can't outskate teams like we used to. Is it that hard to understand?

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05-07-2013, 12:44 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I don't think we need to get bigger because we can be succesful without doing so but we would certainly benefit from getting bigger so long as we don't sacrifice too much skill in doing so. Also bear in mind there's a lot of internal options that could help. If Eller overtakes DD on the depth chart, and Pacioretty gets back to driving the net that solves a lot of size issues in the top-6.
It's true. People really dwell on the size thing. our team already got us this far.

And we aren't really as you think. we have way more guy's over 6 foot than under.

The problem is that too many of our "top" players are small.

on that note.

Alot of our "problems" right now come from our big guy's. Moen, Patches.

Anybody who want's to get rid of plekanecs because of size needs to wake up.

DD is a problem, not because of his size (see Gallagher) but because he just isn't trying (see Gallagher).

Gionta is a problem not because of his size, but becaue he is getting older (see Gallagher). And looks more cautious about recieving injuries (see Gallagher).

Gallagher is small but really right now. Our best player. We really only need too rid two players to have an overall larger team. either DD or Gionta on the forwards. Diaz or Gorges (I know he's not tiny but he soofffffff) or Bouillion on the defense.

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05-07-2013, 12:45 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Everywhere I look lists Gorges as 6'1. I said Kaberle is not playing but he is still over 6 feet even if he plays soft. What does Tinordi being a rookie have to do with his height? Emelin is still part of the defense and will be back next season.

The difference between 5'6 and 5'7 is an inch last time I checked. And again everywhere I look lists DD as 5'7 not under it but at it.

Martin St Louis, Theo Fleury, etc. etc.

Nobody is saying we should not get bigger but you make it sound like it will be a breeze to bring in a bunch of talent giants....keep dreaming.

Gorges is a small guy regardless and he is not physical. The only consistently physical player on the team is Emelin...and then PK. Bouillion is as well, but he's on the smaller side.

Finding big dmen who are somewhat physical is not difficult. A top 4 is harder, but a guy who can play 5,6,7 is not. At the same time..why not start drafting these guys? Some of us have been talking about this for years now.

St. Louis and Fleury are exceptions and neither were one dimensional players. DD is not even in the same stratosphere.

Please find me all the 5'7, 5'8 forwards on the last 10 stanley cup winning teams.

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05-07-2013, 12:47 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Habbybirthday View Post
It's true. People really dwell on the size thing. our team already got us this far.

And we aren't really as you think. we have way more guy's over 6 foot than under.

The problem is that too many of our "top" players are small.

on that note.

Alot of our "problems" right now come from our big guy's. Moen, Patches.

Anybody who want's to get rid of plekanecs because of size needs to wake up.

DD is a problem, not because of his size (see Gallagher) but because he just isn't trying (see Gallagher).

Gionta is a problem not because of his size, but becaue he is getting older (see Gallagher). And looks more cautious about recieving injuries (see Gallagher).

Gallagher is small but really right now. Our best player. We really only need too rid two players to have an overall larger team. either DD or Gionta on the forwards. Diaz or Gorges (I know he's not tiny but he soofffffff) or Bouillion on the defense.
Size has a lot to do with DD's problems. He's just not strong enough on his skates, gets knocked off the puck easily and is useless along the borads. He just doesn't have the natural strength and size to play playoff hockey IMO.

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05-07-2013, 12:52 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I don't think we need to get bigger because we can be succesful without doing so but we would certainly benefit from getting bigger so long as we don't sacrifice too much skill in doing so. Also bear in mind there's a lot of internal options that could help. If Eller overtakes DD on the depth chart, and Pacioretty gets back to driving the net that solves a lot of size issues in the top-6.
Depends on the meaning of the word success.

If you count success as in making the playoffs, we dont need more size.

If you count success as in winning a Stanley Cup, we are not even close.

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05-07-2013, 01:08 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Depends on the meaning of the word success.

If you count success as in making the playoffs, we dont need more size.

If you count success as in winning a Stanley Cup, we are not even close.
YES that is why DETROIT has made the playoffs for 22 years in a row.Look at all the goons on that team and the size...wow ...dont think they could have done it without all the size and goons

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05-07-2013, 01:19 PM
  #214
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I have very little faith that the Habs will escape this round. Price is just not standing on his head, and with our injuries, and our vets not really lighting it up, well, it just looks like it isn't in the cards this year. I hope they do go further, but at this point I would be very surprised.

If Price gets whatever is on his back off, then I have faith in the team slugging out some low scoring games. But, there can be no more soft/fluky goals.

I think the injury to Emelin, as surprising as it is, was really impactful. A hard hitting stay at home 3-4 D makes a huge difference, I guess. Someone once said he was a monster, and I guess he is!

Here is hoping that Price finds his Mojo, and plays like the thoroughbred that Gainey thought he was.

To be honest, I almost want to see Budaj in net next game, but I don't think it will make a difference. Our D is too soft once Emelin is gone.

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05-07-2013, 01:23 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Size has a lot to do with DD's problems. He's just not strong enough on his skates, gets knocked off the puck easily and is useless along the borads. He just doesn't have the natural strength and size to play playoff hockey IMO.
But how come Gallagher can do it. His problems are drive and determination.

I guess the way to put it is like this. I'm a chef. It's hot, hard, stressful, tiring, fast paced work. Some guy's come in.. Wanting to be good chefs with every bone in there body. But they can't because the intensity is missing from them. They just simply don't have what it takes. Some guy's come in just trying to work to make money and blow **** up. Speed, Determination, 150% every single shift. Why? Because they just have "IT".

What I'm saying is it's not DD's size. Gallagher is roughly the same size. DD just doesn't seem to have "IT". The drive, the crash and bang, give everything at the end of the night I still sit down and have a cold one so what's a little pain now attitude.

That aspect is just missing from him. Sometimes you can awaken that in people. Sometimes it's just not there. With DD I can't tell if it's not there or it needs to be woken up.

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05-07-2013, 01:24 PM
  #216
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Genius why isn't this guy a GM?

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05-07-2013, 01:26 PM
  #217
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Genius why isn't this guy a GM?
I'm not french. That's why. Politics.

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05-07-2013, 01:35 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Emelin may not be super intimidating but he plays gritty, rough and with courage. He speared Seguin and got Chara on his face, then the next game versus Bruins, he goes for a huge hit on Lucic. He can hurt people with his game. That's fearless and courage, willing to sacrifice for the team. You think that's not better than freaking Komisarek???

Sure, if he was also intimidating like Frankenstein, that'd be awesome. But we can't have everything. The Emelin package as it is is pretty damn good in my book.

By the way, hope he'll return at 100%.
When did Emelin spear Seguin?

I think Emelin is definitely intimidating. Every team that plays the Habs knows who he is and they "keep their head up". He definitely alters how they play when he is on the ice.

Komisarek was dominant physically before he blew out his shoulder, he would manhandle Lucic.

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05-07-2013, 01:35 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Not bad at all.

John Scott is a nice touch by the way.
Tehehehe!

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I thought you were 'throwing money' at Clarkson and Murray. How then did you end up with signing Clarkson for a cap hit that many other teams would match and Murray for the same salary he's on now?
Murray won't make much more than 2.5 next year, you can change it to 3.0 if you'd like. Clarkson at lets say 6yrs 4.5M is a nice contract for him, make it 4.75 or 5.0 if it needs to be. I'd take both of those guys on my team in a heart beat. If we found a way to get rid of Gionta, I'd go hard after Bickell as well.

Patch-Stastny-Gallagher
Bourque-Plek-Clarkson
Chucky-Eller-Bickell
Moen-White-Prust
Scott-Halpern

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05-07-2013, 01:40 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Depends on the meaning of the word success.

If you count success as in making the playoffs, we dont need more size.

If you count success as in winning a Stanley Cup, we are not even close.
There are different levels of success. Making the playoffs is one level, winning your division is another, getting to the Finals is another and winning it all is another. But it's stupid to look at it as Cup or Bust because winning the cup requires a great deal of luck. The best you can ask for is a team that has a legitimate shot.

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05-07-2013, 01:42 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Gorges is a small guy regardless and he is not physical. The only consistently physical player on the team is Emelin...and then PK. Bouillion is as well, but he's on the smaller side.

Finding big dmen who are somewhat physical is not difficult. A top 4 is harder, but a guy who can play 5,6,7 is not. At the same time..why not start drafting these guys? Some of us have been talking about this for years now.

St. Louis and Fleury are exceptions and neither were one dimensional players. DD is not even in the same stratosphere.

Please find me all the 5'7, 5'8 forwards on the last 10 stanley cup winning teams.
Gorges isn't an intimidating presence, but he definitely isn't "non physical". He won't go running around head hunting, but he will take the hits that are there.

Finding physical d-men that don't hurt you with their skill level IS an issue. If you look at the guys traded this year, both Murray and Regehr are guys that can play the stay at home/crease cleaning game but if you have 2-3 of those guys you defense is molasses slow and you can't get out of your zone. Teams will forecheck you into the ice and force you into penalities. THAT is why having big guys that can hit and still play like Emelin(and eventually Tinordi) is so valuable.


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05-07-2013, 01:50 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
When did Emelin spear Seguin?

I think Emelin is definitely intimidating. Every team that plays the Habs knows who he is and they "keep their head up". He definitely alters how they play when he is on the ice.

Komisarek was dominant physically before he blew out his shoulder, he would manhandle Lucic.
Maybe my memory is failing, Emelin either speared or slashed Seguin or Bergeron. That's why Chara went out of his way and jumped on Emelin.

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05-07-2013, 01:53 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Nitehowl View Post
YES that is why DETROIT has made the playoffs for 22 years in a row.Look at all the goons on that team and the size...wow ...dont think they could have done it without all the size and goons
Detroit had generational talent throughout their roster all those years. We're far from being that.

In fact, having a more balanced team with a lot of grit is easier to do than acquiring generational talent nowadays.

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05-07-2013, 01:55 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Maybe my memory is failing, Emelin either speared or slashed Seguin or Bergeron. That's why Chara went out of his way and jumped on Emelin.
He crosschecked Seguin from the side sorta.

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05-07-2013, 02:26 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Maybe my memory is failing, Emelin either speared or slashed Seguin or Bergeron. That's why Chara went out of his way and jumped on Emelin.
He gave him a bit of a crosscheck and he went down like he'd been shot. Chara lost his mind and we won the game.

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