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2013 NHL Draft Thread III (6/30, 3PM EDT)

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Old
05-16-2013, 04:40 PM
  #276
RDriesenUD
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Well, I decided to join one of the board Mocks... 11 of the first 13 picks were forwards (Jones & Nurse only two D). I took Rasmus Ristolainen with pick #14 and Fredrick Gauthier with pick #19. I skipped Mantha at 14 thinking the D-run would start and actually thought there was higher value in Risto at #14 (Can always trade an asset for a need in my opinion). Promptly, Mantha, Lazar,Zadorov and Pulock went. Wennberg and Zykov went 12,13 respectively. Not exactly how I would have liked to pick but I really like both players. I did think Risto would be gone before #14 and that Zykov would be available - possibly even at 19. Guys like Morrisey and Hagg are still there at 20. Thought both could go higher.

Weird draft. Granted it's fans picking, not GM's.... They have CBJ slotted at 27 with the Kings pick (I'm assuming they have Kings losing to Chicago in conference final). Any suggestions?

Oh yeah, Edmonton GM took Horvat at #7....
I like the 2 picks you have made so far.

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05-16-2013, 04:49 PM
  #277
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Here is my top 10 based on who I would pick for the Jackets.

1. Seth Jones
2. Nathan MacKinnon
3. Aleksander Barkov
4. Jonathan Drouin
5. Elias Lindholm
6. Sean Monahan
7. Hunter Shinkaruk
8. Valentin Zykov
9. Rasmus Ristolainen
10. Frederik Gauthier

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05-16-2013, 05:30 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
I think there's a good chance Domi is, since his size and the fact he's diabetic might scare off some teams.
Probably not unless the Patriots switch sports

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05-16-2013, 05:34 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Moving up in the draft doesn't guarantee you "great"

Last time the draft was considered this deep was 2004. Columbus picked 4th. The following All Star players all went after Columbus's pick this season.

17 Zach Parise
19 Ryan Getzlaf
23 Ryan Kesler
24 Mike Richards
28 Corey Perry
33 Loui Eriksson
45 Patrice Bergeron
49 Shea Weber
62 David Backes
64 Jimmy Howard
239. Tobias Enstrom
245. Dustin Byfuglien
291 Brian Elliott

or you could trade up to #4 and have:

4 Nikolai Zherdev


The draft is a crap shoot. Trading all your bullets away for an earlier shot doesn't guarantee you'll miss the crap, just as having more shots doesn't guarantee you'll miss the crap either. But especially in a deep draft, it doesn't hurt to have a few more opportunities.
Well played sir. Setting aside the 2003 draft, (which is a complete freak draft that occurs once every generation) there is truth that even in a "normal" deep draft more picks is a better thing for most teams. However, I think our team is in a unique case where adding anything outside of top line potential guys doesn't upgrade our line-up, other than creating trade assets in a few years which will not acquire star players that don't have issues. (Heatly = attitude, Carter/Richards=attitude, Nash=request trade, Gaborik=Torts, etc)

I won't be upset if we hold onto our picks, I just think that we have a better chance to add a dimension to our team with two higher picks. If we are going to get Domi, Horvat, or Shikaruk we are going to have to make moves, otherwise we will have to settle for the lower tier of forwards or take D.

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05-16-2013, 05:53 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Well played sir. Setting aside the 2003 draft, (which is a complete freak draft that occurs once every generation) there is truth that even in a "normal" deep draft more picks is a better thing for most teams. However, I think our team is in a unique case where adding anything outside of top line potential guys doesn't upgrade our line-up, other than creating trade assets in a few years which will not acquire star players that don't have issues. (Heatly = attitude, Carter/Richards=attitude, Nash=request trade, Gaborik=Torts, etc)

I won't be upset if we hold onto our picks, I just think that we have a better chance to add a dimension to our team with two higher picks. If we are going to get Domi, Horvat, or Shikaruk we are going to have to make moves, otherwise we will have to settle for the lower tier of forwards or take D.
IMO, these "lower tier" forwards are just about as good as the guys you mentioned. It is going to come down to how they get developed and if they are put in a good situation. That is why I see no reason to move up, unless we are moving up into the top 4.

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05-16-2013, 09:05 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
I think there's a good chance Domi is, since his size and the fact he's diabetic might scare off some teams.

Jarmo does have a connection with the London Knights since his longtime friend Basil McRae is the co-owner of the Knights. McRae was hired as a part-time OHL scout for the Jackets a few months ago.
So a co-owner of the Knights is a part-time Jackets scout?

And on Domi, he doesn't have the kind of size issue that would worry me. He's stocky as hell for a kid his age, and with a really low center of gravity. I could see him ending up at 5-9 200 (I know they say he's 5-10, but I doubt it.) He could play a lot like Marchand or Gallagher only heavier and with more skill. Guy's like that don't get pushed around.

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05-16-2013, 09:15 PM
  #282
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So a co-owner of the Knights is a part-time Jackets scout?
Yes.

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05-16-2013, 09:19 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Moving up in the draft doesn't guarantee you "great"

Last time the draft was considered this deep was 2004. Columbus picked 4th. The following All Star players all went after Columbus's pick this season.

17 Zach Parise
19 Ryan Getzlaf
23 Ryan Kesler
24 Mike Richards
28 Corey Perry
33 Loui Eriksson
45 Patrice Bergeron
49 Shea Weber
62 David Backes
64 Jimmy Howard
239. Tobias Enstrom
245. Dustin Byfuglien
291 Brian Elliott

or you could trade up to #4 and have:

4 Nikolai Zherdev


The draft is a crap shoot. Trading all your bullets away for an earlier shot doesn't guarantee you'll miss the crap, just as having more shots doesn't guarantee you'll miss the crap either. But especially in a deep draft, it doesn't hurt to have a few more opportunities.
We've discussed this ad nauseum, but I feel this 2003 thing is an obvious fallacy that we should get rid of.

2003 was really deep, but the strangest feature was its freaky distribution of talent, with elite players sprinkled almost evenly through the first round. We know that the 2013 draft has a few elite studs and lots of talent deep into the rounds. But we have no indication that this draft will have the distribution that the 2003 draft did and we won't know for years to come.

Depth does not mean 2003's distribution!

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05-16-2013, 09:22 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Here is my top 10 based on who I would pick for the Jackets.

1. Seth Jones
2. Nathan MacKinnon
3. Aleksander Barkov
4. Jonathan Drouin
5. Elias Lindholm
6. Sean Monahan
7. Hunter Shinkaruk
8. Valentin Zykov
9. Rasmus Ristolainen
10. Frederik Gauthier
Highlighted this post because it deserves some thought ... I'd be willing to bet that this is pretty close to Jarmo's list. Nicely done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by major major View Post
And on Domi, he doesn't have the kind of size issue that would worry me. He's stocky as hell for a kid his age, and with a really low center of gravity. I could see him ending up at 5-9 200 (I know they say he's 5-10, but I doubt it.) He could play a lot like Marchand or Gallagher only heavier and with more skill. Guy's like that don't get pushed around.
Brendan Gallagher is a fair comparison for Domi, there are some similarities there. The thing that I've always thought about Max Domi is that, oddly, he reminds me a lot of the way Sidney Crosby used to play in junior. While that isn't a comparison to his upside at all, it goes to say that he plays the game at a high rate of speed, with just a little bit of bite. He has good lower body strength, and a low center of gravity - he's hard to knock over. Take it with a grain of salt though ... I said the same sort of things about Gilbert Brule in his draft year

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05-16-2013, 09:29 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
IMO, these "lower tier" forwards are just about as good as the guys you mentioned. It is going to come down to how they get developed and if they are put in a good situation. That is why I see no reason to move up, unless we are moving up into the top 4.
Well as usual it all comes down to the evaluation of the players. I just think there is a significant drop offensive drop off from the Domi/Shinkaruk group (Mantha and Horvat may be in there as well) to the Gauthier/Lazar forward group. I love some of the guys farther down (Gauthier could be a monster as a second line center, Erne could be a solid a power forward, ditto Lazar), but they don't appear to provide the offensive talent we need to take this roster to the next level.

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05-16-2013, 10:08 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Well as usual it all comes down to the evaluation of the players. I just think there is a significant drop offensive drop off from the Domi/Shinkaruk group (Mantha and Horvat may be in there as well) to the Gauthier/Lazar forward group. I love some of the guys farther down (Gauthier could be a monster as a second line center, Erne could be a solid a power forward, ditto Lazar), but they don't appear to provide the offensive talent we need to take this roster to the next level.
I get what you're saying. There are some good offensive players in that range (20+) however, they just all have different question marks above them. Be it size, the Russian factor, injuries, etc ... a team willing to step up and take a chance could be rewarded in a huge way ... or, they could miss entirely.

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05-16-2013, 11:24 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Well as usual it all comes down to the evaluation of the players. I just think there is a significant drop offensive drop off from the Domi/Shinkaruk group (Mantha and Horvat may be in there as well) to the Gauthier/Lazar forward group. I love some of the guys farther down (Gauthier could be a monster as a second line center, Erne could be a solid a power forward, ditto Lazar), but they don't appear to provide the offensive talent we need to take this roster to the next level.
I don't disagree that the guys who will go in the later part of the first round aren't as good (right now at least). The reason I am more for us not trading up is because I don't think they are so far behind and I think their potential is the same (or at least close enough).

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05-16-2013, 11:27 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Highlighted this post because it deserves some thought ... I'd be willing to bet that this is pretty close to Jarmo's list. Nicely done.
Thanks. I think those are guys who have the talent we need and also fit our system pretty well.

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05-17-2013, 02:50 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Here is my top 10 based on who I would pick for the Jackets.

1. Seth Jones
2. Nathan MacKinnon
3. Aleksander Barkov
4. Jonathan Drouin
5. Elias Lindholm
6. Sean Monahan
7. Hunter Shinkaruk
8. Valentin Zykov
9. Rasmus Ristolainen
10. Frederik Gauthier
For the Jackets I'd pick as below, I show big gaps in value with gaps.

1. Seth Jones

2. Nathan Mackinnon
3. Jonathan Drouin
4. Sasha Barkov

5. Elias Lindholm

6. Sean Monahan

7. Valery Nichushkin

8. Darnell Nurse

9. Anthony Mantha
10. Ryan Pulock
11. Hunter Shinkaruk
12. Max Domi
13. Bo Horvat
14. Rasmus Ristolainen
15. Ryan Hartman
16. Valentin Zykov
17. Alexander Wennberg
18. Nikita Zadorov
19. Frederik Gauthier
20. Kerby Rychel
21. Adam Erne
22. Andre Burakowsky
23. Robert Hagg
24. Josh Morrissey
25. Curtis Lazar
26. Mirco Mueller

I don't know enough about the next group of Lehkonen, Bowey, Klimchuk, etc... to make it all the way to 30.

The top 4 are all statospheric and close in value, with a steep grade down from Barkov to Mantha at 9, with a very modest decline in value from there on down.


Last edited by major major: 05-17-2013 at 02:55 AM.
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05-17-2013, 10:43 AM
  #290
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OK, so I went a little off the board with Jimmy Lodge at #27 OA in the mock. You guys/gals gonna crucify me for that or what do you think?

1(14) Ristolainen
1(19) Gauthier
1(27) Lodge

I didn't see a BPA on the D side at that point and didn't think I should gamble on Buchnevich although I thought long and hard about that one. Maybe Theodore there or Dickinson but simply think they all have upside and I like Lodge's ability to play all zones, all situations and he likes to have the puck. Good compete level too.

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05-17-2013, 11:35 AM
  #291
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Had a dream about the draft last night. Took Pulock with the 14th. I like that, but not many others seem to.

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05-17-2013, 02:01 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
OK, so I went a little off the board with Jimmy Lodge at #27 OA in the mock. You guys/gals gonna crucify me for that or what do you think?

1(14) Ristolainen
1(19) Gauthier
1(27) Lodge

I didn't see a BPA on the D side at that point and didn't think I should gamble on Buchnevich although I thought long and hard about that one. Maybe Theodore there or Dickinson but simply think they all have upside and I like Lodge's ability to play all zones, all situations and he likes to have the puck. Good compete level too.
I went ahead and copied in your mock because its way easier if I know who's available:

[QUOTE=rey72335;65774369]
ROUND ONE
PickTeamPlayerPosSHHTWTDoBTeamCSSSkipped
1.Colorado AvalancheJonathan DrouinLWL5'11"1781995-03-28Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL)NA 003 
2.Florida PanthersNathan MacKinnonCR5'11"1821995-09-01Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL)NA 002 
3.Tampa Bay LightningSeth JonesDR6'4"2051994-10-03Portland Winterhawks (WHL)NA 001 
4.Nashville PredatorsAleksander BarkovCL6'2"2071995-09-02Tappara (FEL)INT 001 
5.Carolina HurricanesSean MonahanCL6'2"1931994-10-12Ottawa 67's (OHL)NA 005 
6.Calgary FlamesElias LindholmCR6'0"1811994-12-02Brynas (SEL)INT 003 
7.Edmonton OilersBo HorvatCL6'0"2031995-04-05London Knights (OHL)NA 015 
8.Buffalo SabresValeri NichushkinRWL6'2"1911995-03-04Chelyabinsk (KHL)INT 002 
9.New Jersey DevilsHunter ShinkarukLWL5'11"1751994-10-13Medicine Hat Tigers (WHL)NA 006 
10.Dallas StarsMax DomiLWL5'9"1971995-03-02London Knights (OHL)NA 019 
11.Philadelphia FlyersDarnell NurseDL6'4"1851995-02-04Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds (OHL)NA 004 
12.Phoenix CoyotesAlex WennbergCL6'0"1731994-09-22Djurgarden (Allsvenskan)INT 005 
13.Winnipeg JetsValentin ZykovRWR6'1"2141995-05-15Baie-Comeau Drakkar (QMJHL)NA 007 
14.Columbus Blue JacketsRasmus RistolainenDR6'3"1961994-10-27TPS (FEL)INT 004 
15.New York IslandersAnthony ManthaLWL6'3"2001994-09-16Val-d'Or Foreurs (QMJHL)NA 010 
16.Buffalo Sabres (MIN)Ryan PulockDR6'1"2011994-10-06Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL)NA 012 
17.Ottawa SenatorsNikita ZadorovDL6'5"2281995-04-15London Knights (OHL)NA 022 
18.Detroit Red WingsCurtis LazarCR6'0"1891995-02-02Edmonton Oil Kings (WHL)NA 020 
19.Columbus Blue Jackets (NYR)Frederik GauthierCL6'4"2151995-04-26Rimouski Oceanic (QMJHL)NA 008 
20.San Jose SharksAdam ErneRWL6'0"2061995-04-20Quebec Remparts (QMJHL)NA 026 
21.Toronto Maple LeafsAndre BurakowskyRWL6'1"1761995-02-09Malmo (Allsvenskan)NA 006 
22.Calgary Flames (STL)Zach FucaleGL6'1"1761995-05-28Halifax Mooseheads (WHL)NAG 001 
23.Washington CapitalsRyan HartmanRWR5'11"1871994-09-20Plymouth Whalers (OHL)NA 016 
24.Vancouver CanucksJosh MorrisseyDL6'0"1841995-03-28Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)NA 027 
25.Montreal CanadiensKerby RychelLWL6'1"2001994-10-07Windsor Spitfires (OHL)NA 017 
26.Anaheim DucksRobert HaggDL6'2"2041995-02-08Modo (SEL)INT 008 
27.Columbus Blue Jackets (LAK)Jimmy LodgeCR6'1"1621995-03-05Saginaw Spirit (OHL)NA 021 
28.Dallas Stars (BOS)Jacob de la RoseCL6'2"1831995-05-20Leksands (Allsvenskan)INT 007 
29.Calgary Flames (PIT)Mirco MuellerDL6'3"1851995-03-21Everett Silvertips (WHL)NA 009 
30.Chicago Blackhawks         

My only complaint with Lodge is that he is so lowly ranked on so many lists (third rounder on some), we might as well hope to pick him with our second rounder. But they didn't leave you with much at 27, and Lodge ain't bad. I might have gone with Lehkonen. Another complaint about your draft as a whole is that you've got to get at least one game-breaking scorer.

I like Ristolainen at 14, but not more than Pulock or Mantha (see my list), and I like Gauthier at 19, but not more than Hartman. So I'd go Mantha, Hartman, and Lehkonen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Had a dream about the draft last night. Took Pulock with the 14th. I like that, but not many others seem to.
I'd love Pulock and have him at 10th. My understanding is that he was dinged up this year, but it looks like he has all the skills and huge upside. My rule with picking defencemen in the first round is only pick guys who have the upside to become our best defenceman.


Last edited by major major: 05-17-2013 at 02:14 PM.
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05-17-2013, 02:14 PM
  #293
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I like Ristolainen at 14, but not more than Pulock or Mantha (see my list), and I like Gauthier at 19, but not more than Hartman. So I'd go Mantha, Hartman, and Lehkonen.
Haha. Don't know if you saw the following from a couple days back re: the HF mods mock.

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If you're bored and want something else to think about and roll your eyes at moderation, the first round of the HFB moderators' mock draft is nearly complete, and the CBJ are finished, drafting the following:

at 14 - Anthony Mantha
at 19 - Ryan Hartman
at 24 - Arturri Lehkonen

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05-18-2013, 09:29 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
I went ahead and copied in your mock because its way easier if I know who's available:

My only complaint with Lodge is that he is so lowly ranked on so many lists (third rounder on some), we might as well hope to pick him with our second rounder. But they didn't leave you with much at 27, and Lodge ain't bad. I might have gone with Lehkonen. Another complaint about your draft as a whole is that you've got to get at least one game-breaking scorer.
Central Scouting ranked him at 21of North American skaters so allowing for the top 5 Europeans from their list that would put him 26th. Don't know anything about him but CS is usually pretty good with their rankings.

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05-18-2013, 11:32 AM
  #295
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Maybe we should hold our own mock on here for the first 13 picks and then it opens up an interesting discussion about who to draft at 14. We can then debate it and put it to a poll to collectively decide what Jarmo should do with the pick. I can start a new thread for it if everyone is game?

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05-18-2013, 12:18 PM
  #296
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Portland plays Halifax tonight. Does anyone know where a free feed can be found? It's frustrating that junior feeds can be found during the lockout but not for the biggest junior games of the season.

I just watched highlights here of the Knights-Blades opener. Includes a sweet assist from Horvat and a huge hit from Domi.

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05-18-2013, 12:39 PM
  #297
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Portland plays Halifax tonight. Does anyone know where a free feed can be found? It's frustrating that junior feeds can be found during the lockout but not for the biggest junior games of the season.

I just watched highlights here of the Knights-Blades opener. Includes a sweet assist from Horvat and a huge hit from Domi.
The NHL Network used to pick up the games ... for some reason this year, they aren't. Not going to be likely that you'll find a feed, unless someone in Canada broadcasts one. The reason pro sports feeds are easier to find is because it's typically through European outlets. People in Europe, simply, don't follow Canadian junior hockey.

EDIT: The NHL Network is rebroadcasting the games the next day ... if you don't mind watching tape delayed stuff.

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05-19-2013, 12:02 AM
  #298
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MacKinnon stole the show tonight

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05-19-2013, 02:02 AM
  #299
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MacKinnon stole the show tonight
He seems to have that special quality of doing it when it matters most. there are guys out there that may not always dominate the entire season ... but when the game is on the line, they want the puck on their stick. Nathan MacKinnon showed that quality tonight.

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05-19-2013, 11:15 AM
  #300
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He seems to have that special quality of doing it when it matters most. there are guys out there that may not always dominate the entire season ... but when the game is on the line, they want the puck on their stick. Nathan MacKinnon showed that quality tonight.
I didn't want to comment on the game too much because i wasn't sure if people were stillwaiting to watch it but MacKinnon was far and away the best player on the ice. I've never once for one second considered Jones should go before MacKinnon and this is just one more game to help Mackinnon's status. He plays all 3 zones which he doesn't get nearly enough credit which was shown yesterday. The only thing and i mean only thing he could have done a little bit better with yesterday was at the faceoff dot but thats not the hardest thing in the world to correct. Im from Nova Scotia so i know everything about him and nothing surprises me anymore.
Jones played a good game but probably not as good as he wanted. I'd say he was probably the 3rd or 4th best Winterhawk on the ice. He's amazing defensively with his stick and does so many subtle things casual fans can't respect but hardcore fans are just in love with. He went head to head with MacKinnon on one play and it was highlight reel for one of them (not Jones).
Drouin had an good game. He wasn't the most noticeable player when he wasn't scoring. There were some shifts where he showed off that insane passing ability and that amazing cycle between him and MacKinnon but then there were shifts you would look for him and just wonder where he was. He looked nervous yesterday, he always does everything at 100mph but yesterday seemed like his mind was at 100mph and his body was at 120mph

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