To be fair to you .. I can't think of a modern day player who's style is similar to what Borje brought to the game.
I think the closest approximation of Borje Salming in a modern day NHL player would be Teppo Numminen.
Teppo has been an absurdly under-rated player throughout his career, in large part due to spending his best years in smaller market outposts like the 'Peg and Phoenix. If he had spent his career in Toronto or Detroit instead it would have been very different.
Dating back to his early years in Winnipeg, I always thought he reminded me of Salming.
As for the question, I can't believe Sittler is winning this poll. There are much more deserving players in the Leafs alumni, cheif among them Syl Apps, George Armstrong, Dave Keon, Turk Broda, Frank Mahovolich and especially Teeder Kennedy. Sittler, a Hall of Famer who obviously had a great career, would be very hard pressed to be in the Leafs All-Time Top Five.
. . .
As for the question, I can't believe Sittler is winning this poll. There are much more deserving players in the Leafs alumni, cheif among them Syl Apps, George Armstrong, Dave Keon, Turk Broda, Frank Mahovolich and especially Teeder Kennedy. Sittler, a Hall of Famer who obviously had a great career, would be very hard pressed to be in the Leafs All-Time Top Five.
I voted for Sittler, but I see your point. These questions are quite subjective. They played in very different eras, fans have limited knowledge of the players, and it's difficult to know in which sense we think of the player as representing the Maple Leafs, as opposed to any other team.
Most of your list are good candidates, although I don't think George Armstrong merits serious consideration. Mahovolich suffers in my mind, because he is so famous for being traded away from the Leafs.
Of the others on the list, I think Sittler is superior to them in the high profile area of offensive skill- with the possible exception of Syl Apps. And it doesn't hurt that he is the all time leading scorer for the franchise.
Sittler also bled blue and white and continues to have a relationship with the team to this day. All of that contributes to his being "great."
But I reiterate- its a subjective thing, and I would not quarrel with any of your choices, other than Armstrong who while certainly an important part of our history, doesn't merit serious consideration alongside the rest.
The NHL Network had its "Top 10 players to ever skate in a Toronto Maple Leafs jersey" recently .
The Results were as following compiled by a panel of experts ..
Here is the Top 10
1) Dave Keon
2) Mats Sundin
3) Darryl Sittler
4) Dougie Gilmour
5) Johnny Bower
6) Borje Salming
7) Frank Mahovlich
8) Wendel Clark
9) George Armstrong
10) Syl Apps
I can't imagine any panel of experts at any level having Wendel Clark on the Top Ten Maple Leafs list. That's just absurd. How they could have Clark ahead of players like Teeder Kennedy, King Clancy and Turk Broda is truly ridiculous. That list is a joke.
I can't imagine any panel of experts at any level having Wendel Clark on the Top Ten Maple Leafs list. That's just absurd. How they could have Clark ahead of players like Teeder Kennedy, King Clancy and Turk Broda is truly ridiculous. That list is a joke.
Not a joke, just subjective. Wendel had an injury plagued career that prevented him from compiling an impressive statistical record. But on the other hand, he's Wendel Clark. At his best he could singlehandedly turn a game around with hit, a fight, or his incredible shot. He was the only bright spot during a bad time for the Leafs, and he was absolutely *loved* by the fans.
I wouldn't describe him as one of the greatest, but I also wouldn't hesitate to say that he's one of my favourites.
To be fair to you .. I can't think of a modern day player who's style is similar to what Borje brought to the game.
Salming was absolutely fearless on the ice .. He would slide face first to block a shot in his own zone, and was great defensively and would log 35+ minutes a game easily in all situations.
He would QB the PP and play nearly the full PK often taking the puck and going for a skate to play keep away as the time would run down.
He was a fluent skater that glided on the ice and could change direction on a dime.
Also offensively gifted in his playmaking ability more so as a playmaker then true goal scorer.
He wouldn't back down from no one, and even when the leagues toughest team Philly and their Broadsteet Bullies tactics could not take him off his game via insults " Chicken Swede" or intimidation. They left the game saying they underestimated his character.
The NHL has seen lots of players with styles similar to Tim Horton, and I give him his dues as surprisingly he was built the same as Ian White is only 5'10" 180 lbs.. He made a lot out of that
The NHL has seen very few players that resemble Salming past or present .. he was truly unique in his on ice abilities. All this playing under the shadow of Owner Harold Ballard who despised Euro players, well maybe all except one who wore #21 for his own Toronto Maple Leafs .. Same owner who commented on fellow Swede and Borje's team-mate Inge Hammerstrom "He could go into the corner with a pocket full of eggs and come out and not break a single one"
King Salming stands alone IMO
Hmmmmmm Pronger perhaps? Maybee Blake a few years ago?
allthough Salming didn't have the advantadge of being a giant like them.
I voted Sundin, I didn't see the Leafs untill late 80's early 90's
so it comes down to Clarke, Douggy and Sundin for me, and I love all 3 but it's Mats by far.
Ok this is my first post here, i noticed you people are looking for the greatest Leaf of all time, now I also noticed it is very subjective. So I will give 3 players not named who maybe should get some consideration. But before I do that I have a question, Why isn't Rick Vaive given more credit, he is the first Leaf to score 50 in a season? Just wondering. Anyways here goes:
1. Hap Day (1924 - 1937)
2. Gordie Drillon (1937 - 1942)
3. Red Kelly (1959 - 67)
Granted these guys are from different era's, but hey they are in HOF , and they at least have Stanley Cup's to there name. Food for thought. Oh yeah for the person (or people) saying Borje Salming is the Sergei Gonchar of his era, what hockey did you watch? If any one from the Leafs of that era can be compared to Sergei Gonchar it should be Ian Turnbull (as said by The Messenger) Anyways, just an opinion.
Keon was a top 2-way player and definitely a solid choice for top Leaf. I only wish there was some way for the organization to mend the fences with him. Damn that Ballard.
Keon was a top 2-way player and definitely a solid choice for top Leaf. I only wish there was some way for the organization to mend the fences with him. Damn that Ballard.
I think we can say that bridge is permanently broken. Dryden tried several times to woo him back for cermonies, but he has no interest which is a little perplexing. I understand his bitterness for Ballard and his associates, but this is a totally different ownership group which puts a great deal of effort and emphasis into Leaf history and alumni, not to mention the fans still love him.
I think we can say that bridge is permanently broken. Dryden tried several times to woo him back for cermonies, but he has no interest which is a little perplexing. I understand his bitterness for Ballard and his associates, but this is a totally different ownership group which puts a great deal of effort and emphasis into Leaf history and alumni, not to mention the fans still love him.
It is abundantly clear to me that ony the bwo could get keon back
into the leafs fold
Nobody a fan of Rick Vaive I see, LOL. Hey in all this I also noticed there is no mention of 2 of the most charismatic Leafs of all-time, namely Mike Palmateer and Lanny McDonald. Any comments?
Keon was a top 2-way player and definitely a solid choice for top Leaf. I only wish there was some way for the organization to mend the fences with him. Damn that Ballard.
Keon's Resume
15 Seasons... 1960 -1975
1052 Games as Leaf - 4th most (Armstrong 1188, Horton 1184, Salming 1099)
858 points in Blue and White- 2nd most all-time (Sittler 916)
4 Stanley Cups Rings including .. 36 points in 36 games and
The Conn Smyth Trophy winner in Leafs Last Cup in 1967 as Playoff MVP
He really doesn't need defending .. His accomplishments speak for themselves.
and as you said Pep .. Had Ballard not gotten involved Keon may never have left for the WHA .. and would have lead in all statistical categories during his distinguished career.
Nobody a fan of Rick Vaive I see, LOL. Hey in all this I also noticed there is no mention of 2 of the most charismatic Leafs of all-time, namely Mike Palmateer and Lanny McDonald. Any comments?
I remember rick vaive playing that man could shoot the puck better then 99% of the nhl. Because he was slowing down from age 24 on he was a bit of a floater who at times played at the other teams blue line awaiting a pass from john anderson or salming but that sort of thing occured in the 1980's.
He was the leafs franchise in the 1980's he was a classy man and was the face pf the eafs at every function going then sadly he was quickly disgarded when # 17 wendle clark came to town.
1052 Games as Leaf - 4th most (Armstrong 1188, Horton 1184, Salming 1099)
858 points in Blue and White- 2nd most all-time (Sittler 916)
4 Stanley Cups Rings including .. 36 points in 36 games and
The Conn Smyth Trophy winner in Leafs Last Cup in 1967 as Playoff MVP
He really doesn't need defending .. His accomplishments speak for themselves.
and as you said Pep .. Had Ballard not gotten involved Keon may never have left for the WHA .. and would have lead in all statistical categories during his distinguished career.
Keon is a good choice and he was my first favourite Leaf. As a kid I had a number 14 Leafs jersey. For the sake of comparison, here are Sittler's stats:
As a Leaf, 916 points in just 848 games (389 goals, 527 assists).
Fought Bobby Clarke before the first puck was dropped in a playoff game against the Flyers! (Surely that should count for something)
For a scorer, he was never afraid to get his nose dirty, racking up almost as many pims as points.
Scored one of Canada's biggest goals ever in the 1976 Canada Cup.
Much like Keon, Sittler's story was messed up by Harold Ballard. Had the old goat not traded Lanny MacDonald in a deliberate attempt to upset Sittler, Darryl would likely have finished his career as a Leaf and become the only thousand point player in team history. Who knows? A Macdonald/Sittler combo might have even led Roger Neilson's squad to a Stanley Cup.
Frank Mahovlich is another player who should have played his entire career in Toronto, if not for stupid ownership.
I love Keon, but he loses a few points for not forgiving and forgetting- especially when another hockey great- Ken Dryden- made such a push to welcome him back.
1052 Games as Leaf - 4th most (Armstrong 1188, Horton 1184, Salming 1099)
858 points in Blue and White- 2nd most all-time (Sittler 916)
4 Stanley Cups Rings including .. 36 points in 36 games and
The Conn Smyth Trophy winner in Leafs Last Cup in 1967 as Playoff MVP
He really doesn't need defending .. His accomplishments speak for themselves.
and as you said Pep .. Had Ballard not gotten involved Keon may never have left for the WHA .. and would have lead in all statistical categories during his distinguished career.
Another interesting stat is 117 penalty minutes in 1286 NHL games.
