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Greatest Leaf of All Time ?

View Poll Results: WHO IS THE BEST?
Syl Aps 4 9.09%
George Armstong 1 2.27%
Johnny Bower 0 0%
Carl Brewer 0 0%
Turk Broada 0 0%
Wendle Clark 2 4.55%
Charlie Conacher 6 13.64%
Doug Gilmour 2 4.55%
Tim Horton 0 0%
Tedder Kennedy 1 2.27%
Dave Keon 8 18.18%
Borge Salming 4 9.09%
Darryl Sittler 9 20.45%
Mats Sundin 7 15.91%
Rick Vaive 0 0%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-13-2005, 01:44 PM
  #51
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Another interesting stat is 117 penalty minutes in 1286 NHL games.
I guess he didn't realize that made him too soft for the NHL.


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05-13-2005, 01:44 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Another interesting stat is 117 penalty minutes in 1286 NHL games.
True 'Dat.

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05-13-2005, 02:59 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ULF_55
I guess he didn't realize that made him too soft for the NHL.

Well that is the reason Wellwood will not make it .. Too soft .. but Kyle is a little bigger then Keon though who was only 5'9" 165 lbs soaking wet.

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05-13-2005, 03:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Dar
True 'Dat.
If Keon didn't completely lose his discipline and get 26 minutes for Hartford one season then the number could have been even more impressive.

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05-13-2005, 04:22 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Well that is the reason Wellwood will not make it .. Too soft ..
Or so sayeth the master of minors.

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Old
05-14-2005, 11:56 AM
  #56
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I myself would give well wood a roster spot all yr long in the bigs even if he played 40 to 60 games he would learn alot and be an nhler or a dominat ahler

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05-14-2005, 12:38 PM
  #57
Patty Lee
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Originally Posted by ogimaa
Nobody a fan of Rick Vaive I see, LOL. Hey in all this I also noticed there is no mention of 2 of the most charismatic Leafs of all-time, namely Mike Palmateer and Lanny McDonald. Any comments?
ol' 29 was one of my favorites. Hard to put him on the greatest list though. He lives around the corner from a friend of mine now.

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05-14-2005, 12:42 PM
  #58
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Much like Keon, Sittler's story was messed up by Harold Ballard. Had the old goat not traded Lanny MacDonald in a deliberate attempt to upset Sittler, Darryl would likely have finished his career as a Leaf and become the only thousand point player in team history. Who knows? A Macdonald/Sittler combo might have even led Roger Neilson's squad to a Stanley Cup.
Sittler, McDonald, Salming, Turnbull and Palmateer were a good core and too bad they got torn apart. They certainly would have needed some help from the support guys, but its fun to play the "could have been" game.

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Old
05-14-2005, 12:43 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
ol' 29 was one of my favorites. Hard to put him on the greatest list though. He lives around the corner from a friend of mine now.

i think vaive was the greatest player from the 1980's

by that time salming was near theend of his career

sittler was on his way out and the only competition for being the best player from the leafs in the 1980's for vaive is # 17 Clark

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05-14-2005, 04:16 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
Keon is a good choice and he was my first favourite Leaf. As a kid I had a number 14 Leafs jersey. For the sake of comparison, here are Sittler's stats:

As a Leaf, 916 points in just 848 games (389 goals, 527 assists).

Fought Bobby Clarke before the first puck was dropped in a playoff game against the Flyers! (Surely that should count for something)

For a scorer, he was never afraid to get his nose dirty, racking up almost as many pims as points.

Scored one of Canada's biggest goals ever in the 1976 Canada Cup.

Much like Keon, Sittler's story was messed up by Harold Ballard. Had the old goat not traded Lanny MacDonald in a deliberate attempt to upset Sittler, Darryl would likely have finished his career as a Leaf and become the only thousand point player in team history. Who knows? A Macdonald/Sittler combo might have even led Roger Neilson's squad to a Stanley Cup.

Frank Mahovlich is another player who should have played his entire career in Toronto, if not for stupid ownership.

I love Keon, but he loses a few points for not forgiving and forgetting- especially when another hockey great- Ken Dryden- made such a push to welcome him back.
Keon was my favourite Leaf when I was growing up. I also wore #14 throughout my minor hockey days.

That said the best Leafs player of all time would have to be the Big M - Frank Mahovolich. People forget that early in his career he was a fearsome fighter as well as being offensively gifted.

What drove him out of Toronto after 11 seasons was not ownership but the mind games Punch Imlach played.

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05-14-2005, 05:12 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
Keon was my favourite Leaf when I was growing up. I also wore #14 throughout my minor hockey days.

That said the best Leafs player of all time would have to be the Big M - Frank Mahovolich. People forget that early in his career he was a fearsome fighter as well as being offensively gifted.

What drove him out of Toronto after 11 seasons was not ownership but the mind games Punch Imlach played.
You're right- Mahovlich was more Imlach's fault.

If not for the fact that he played so many seasons in other cities, I would probably choose Mahovlich, too.

Still, it feels wrong not to be choosing Syl Apps or Ted Kennedy. The more I think about it, the more I find it impossible to choose just one Leaf. It ultimately forces us to select arbitrary criteria on the one hand, or otoh, to make a largely emotional decision.

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Old
05-14-2005, 06:56 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
You're right- Mahovlich was more Imlach's fault.

If not for the fact that he played so many seasons in other cities, I would probably choose Mahovlich, too.

Still, it feels wrong not to be choosing Syl Apps or Ted Kennedy. The more I think about it, the more I find it impossible to choose just one Leaf. It ultimately forces us to select arbitrary criteria on the one hand, or otoh, to make a largely emotional decision.
He played longer in Toronto than for any other team, basically half his 22 year pro hockey career was in TO.

I am surprised Mahovolich was not listed in the poll. Out of the players listed in the poll my choice would be Syl Apps who IMHO just noses out Charlie Conacher. Note Apps only played 10 seasons for the Leafs and Conacher played 9 seasons - both less than the Big M.

Also you would have to give some consideration to Gordie Drillon who in a fairly short NHL career was the last Leafs player to lead the NHL in scoring in 1938, won the lady Byng and was an all-star three times.

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05-15-2005, 12:40 AM
  #63
timlap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
He played longer in Toronto than for any other team, basically half his 22 year pro hockey career was in TO.

I am surprised Mahovolich was not listed in the poll. Out of the players listed in the poll my choice would be Syl Apps who IMHO just noses out Charlie Conacher. Note Apps only played 10 seasons for the Leafs and Conacher played 9 seasons - both less than the Big M.

Also you would have to give some consideration to Gordie Drillon who in a fairly short NHL career was the last Leafs player to lead the NHL in scoring in 1938, won the lady Byng and was an all-star three times.
Yes I realise that Apps and Conacher played fewer seasons than Mahovlich, but they are clearly Leafs and nothing else.

It was probably just an oversight that left the Big M off the poll. I find it hard to argue with your choice.

Thanks for bringing up Drillon. I had heard his name but knew little about him, so now I will go learn more.

Question: Did Mahovlich ever win a Hart trophy? And what other Leafs won a Hart? I know Kennedy won it once.

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05-15-2005, 08:20 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
. . .

Question: Did Mahovlich ever win a Hart trophy? And what other Leafs won a Hart? I know Kennedy won it once.
A partial answer to my owen question- the Big M never won a Hart trophy, but he did win the Calder.

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05-15-2005, 09:48 AM
  #65
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william babe pratt won the hart trophy in 1944


list of hart Winner

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/awards/...hp3?award_id=2

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05-15-2005, 11:22 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by timlap
A partial answer to my owen question- the Big M never won a Hart trophy, but he did win the Calder.
He beat out Bobby Hull for the Calder that year.

The Big M never won a Hart. The only two Leafs to win the Hart were Teeder Kennedy and Babe Pratt.

There have also been no Norris trophy winners by Leafs players although one would assume that Babe Pratt would have won in 1944 to go with his Hart if the Norris was being awarded at that time.

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05-15-2005, 01:06 PM
  #67
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gilmour 93
sundin 2002
belfour 2003

all had hart like yrs imo

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05-15-2005, 01:14 PM
  #68
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As an aside, but the mention of Syl Apps stirred it - a few years back there was the mention of the Leafs signing Syl Apps Jr. to a (tryout?) contract. What ever became of that, and where was he playing before the signing?

I tried to vote but after deliberation I really can't choose one.. alot of great Leafs players on the ballot.

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05-15-2005, 01:19 PM
  #69
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Red Horner without a Doubt, he did it all from his defensive position, toughest on the team, leading scorer on the defence, compare him to Scott Stevens.

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05-15-2005, 02:18 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven25
As an aside, but the mention of Syl Apps stirred it - a few years back there was the mention of the Leafs signing Syl Apps Jr. to a (tryout?) contract. What ever became of that, and where was he playing before the signing?

I tried to vote but after deliberation I really can't choose one.. alot of great Leafs players on the ballot.

syl apps jr played 2 seasons with the st johns maple leafs
His father was a decent nhl'er who hung them up at a early age much like his dad Syl Aps who playedfor the leafs in the 1940's !


http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=25078


Last edited by Leaf Lander: 05-15-2005 at 11:56 PM.
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05-15-2005, 04:13 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
syl apps jr played 2 seasons with the st johns maple leafs
His father was a decent nhl'er who hung them up at a early age much like his dad!


http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=25078
He played at Princeton

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05-15-2005, 08:46 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven25
As an aside, but the mention of Syl Apps stirred it - a few years back there was the mention of the Leafs signing Syl Apps Jr. to a (tryout?) contract. What ever became of that, and where was he playing before the signing?
Syl Apps Jr. was drafted 21st overall by the NY Rangers in the 1964 draft. He played 10 years (727GP 183G 423A 606Pts 311PIM) with the Rangers, Penguins and Kings. New York traded Apps and Sheldon Kannegiesser to Pittsburgh in exchange for Glen Sather on Jan. 26, 1971.

NHL AWARDS AND HONORS
All-Star Game: 1975 (Pittsburgh)
All-Star Game MVP: 1975 (Pittsburgh)
Pittsburgh Scoring Leader: 1971-72, 1972-73, 1973-74
Pittsburgh Team MVP: 1973-74 (one of four winners)
Pittsburgh Penguins Hall of Fame: Inducted 1994
http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1964/64021.html

Syl Apps III was undrafted out of Princeton University and was signed to a minor league contract by the Leafs and played two seasons with St. John's and most of the rest of his career in the ECHL.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=25078

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05-15-2005, 10:25 PM
  #73
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sundin is there out of respect

gowever he has never won a thing for the leafs and anyone who votes for him
are dishonouring past greats of the leafs who have won stanley cups for the leafs
if sundin win then vote btu im tellign u he wont


he hast to be tradednow so we retool andcan rebuild cause he has failed!

Maybe the lockout took our tiem and our chance away but it happend and sundisn tenure with theleafswill end within the season ofthe lockout being settled

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Old
05-15-2005, 10:26 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
He played at Princeton
I was talking about his dad in the later part of that answer

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05-15-2005, 10:57 PM
  #75
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thanks guys

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