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Norris Trophy now just given to D-man with most points, Defense no longer required.

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05-08-2013, 03:28 AM
  #1
Sir Psycho T
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Norris Trophy now just given to D-man with most points, Defense no longer required.

I guess last year when it went to Karlsson is not a fluke and the beginning of the new trend when it that is required to win the Norris is points.

Suter,deserves to be nominated and win, he put up the points but he also was his teams top D men, as in defense, lead his team in SH time on ice and blocked shots.

Subban? NO! Was 6th in SH time on ice for his team, 4th in blocked shots for his team and didn't play against opposing teams top lines.

Letang, more deserving then Subban but similar stats, was more of a middle of the road D-man and not his teams shut down guy.

To me the Norris should go to a shut down D-man who also put up good points, Weber last year, Chara, Keith, and not just the D-man who played like a forward and scored points but didn't have any real defensive responsibilities.

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05-08-2013, 05:33 AM
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w00d
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It's pretty telling when the best defensive player on the best defensive team (that won the Jennings for fewest goals allowed) gets snubbed for the award that is supposedly awarded to the best defensive player in the league.

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05-08-2013, 07:07 AM
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Honestly, a guy like Hammer deserves the Norris over either Subban/Letang. No homer.

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05-08-2013, 07:39 AM
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Seems like a totally pointless award if they give a trophy meant for playing defense to the defenseman who was most productive offensively....

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05-08-2013, 09:21 AM
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Bubba88
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Karlsson deserved it for his high high scoring numbers. That was outstanding. Letang and Subban over this short season... not really. This is Suters Norris with all the other guys like Weber and Chara having kind of down years

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05-08-2013, 10:44 AM
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Sir Psycho T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Karlsson deserved it for his high high scoring numbers. That was outstanding. Letang and Subban over this short season... not really. This is Suters Norris with all the other guys like Weber and Chara having kind of down years
NO!, unless they change the description of the award from best overall D-men to reverse Selke trophy, best scoring D-man. It's why Green didn't win it any of those years he put up high scoring, because he wasn't his teams top 2-3 defensive players.

To me the Norris is about the best all around D-man and for years thats who won it, Lidstrom, Chara, Keith, Niedermayer, Pronger. Karlsson never played against another teams top line, at least not at home when they could control it, same with Subban. If your not your teams #1 or #2 option in all situations then you aren't the best D-man in the league, even if you lead the league in scoring.

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05-08-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
NO!, unless they change the description of the award from best overall D-men to reverse Selke trophy, best scoring D-man. It's why Green didn't win it any of those years he put up high scoring, because he wasn't his teams top 2-3 defensive players.

To me the Norris is about the best all around D-man and for years thats who won it, Lidstrom, Chara, Keith, Niedermayer, Pronger. Karlsson never played against another teams top line, at least not at home when they could control it, same with Subban. If your not your teams #1 or #2 option in all situations then you aren't the best D-man in the league, even if you lead the league in scoring.
Wouldn't be the first time a guy won the Norris for strictly offensive production, though. I don't disagree with you, but it's happened before.

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05-08-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
Wouldn't be the first time a guy won the Norris for strictly offensive production, though. I don't disagree with you, but it's happened before.
But seems to be becoming more the trend now, I think this year they just selected the top 3 scoring D-men and moved on. Keith, Chara and Weber are more deserving then Letang or Subban.

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05-08-2013, 11:00 AM
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Jeffrey Lebowski
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I don't think any Hawks defenseman deserves the Norris this year.

If I had to choose, I guess I'd pick Hjalmarsson because he's been the best and most reliable defensively but that doesn't mean that he's been the best defenseman in the entire league.

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05-08-2013, 12:19 PM
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Pietrangelo deserved a finalist nod over Letang.

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05-08-2013, 12:31 PM
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Sarava
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Well Paul Coffey won it 3 times. So this is nothing new. The good news is this won't matter I don't think. Suter should win it and he deserves it.

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05-08-2013, 01:15 PM
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Don't care who the 2 other finalists are as long as Suter wins.

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05-08-2013, 02:24 PM
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Trance Kuja
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No it's not. And Karlsson deserved it.

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05-08-2013, 02:28 PM
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Bubba88
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I think a case could be made for the #1 D of the #1 Team with the best D in the league too

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05-08-2013, 03:07 PM
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Hawkaholic
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Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
No it's not. And Karlsson deserved it.
I agree with that, no one came close to Karlsson last year.

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05-08-2013, 03:27 PM
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It rarely goes to defense-only defenseman. Rod Langway won two of them thirty years ago, but he still had to put up 30 points a season.

It's for the best defenseman, not best defensive defenseman, anyway. A defenseman who is 8/10 offensively and 5/10 defensively is going to win it over someone who is 3/10 offensively and 7/10 defensively.

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05-08-2013, 03:31 PM
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Still think that the league should have a reverse Selke specifically given to the best offensive defenseman. Leave Norris to be primarily graded on pure defense.

.... then again, the best defense is a good offense.

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05-08-2013, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Still think that the league should have a reverse Selke specifically given to the best offensive defenseman. Leave Norris to be primarily graded on pure defense.

.... then again, the best defense is a good offense.
It's for best overall defenseman, though. Not best Gorges or Vlasic type defenseman.

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05-08-2013, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
It's for best overall defenseman, though. Not best Gorges or Vlasic type defenseman.
I agree overall defensemen, and last year Karlsson wasn't it. He barely played on the PK, he barely lined up against opposing teams top lines, he didn't block shots. Yes I know a Norris candidate has to put up some numbers, but he also has to play defense.

When a guy isn't one of the top pairing on both end of the ice for his team then he shouldn't be on the list, he should be his teams go to guy in all situations, Off, Def, PP, PK. Guys like Karlsson, Subban, Green, etc are reverse Selke guys and not overall D-men.

I think someone like Phaneuf should be on this list more then someone like Subban.

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05-08-2013, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
I agree overall defensemen, and last year Karlsson wasn't it. He barely played on the PK, he barely lined up against opposing teams top lines, he didn't block shots. Yes I know a Norris candidate has to put up some numbers, but he also has to play defense.

When a guy isn't one of the top pairing on both end of the ice for his team then he shouldn't be on the list, he should be his teams go to guy in all situations, Off, Def, PP, PK. Guys like Karlsson, Subban, Green, etc are reverse Selke guys and not overall D-men.

I think someone like Phaneuf should be on this list more then someone like Subban.
I'd take Subban and Karlsson, defensively, over Phaneuf all day. I think your underrating both, especially Subban.

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05-08-2013, 09:14 PM
  #21
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You don't see the rock solid D-man as often anymore. Suter is one though.

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05-09-2013, 09:54 AM
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Bubba88
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I think they should just add a trophy named Orr Trohpy for the DMen with the most pts scored and the Norris going to the best all around D.

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05-09-2013, 12:53 PM
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LBS8844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
I guess last year when it went to Karlsson is not a fluke and the beginning of the new trend when it that is required to win the Norris is points.

Suter,deserves to be nominated and win, he put up the points but he also was his teams top D men, as in defense, lead his team in SH time on ice and blocked shots.

Subban? NO! Was 6th in SH time on ice for his team, 4th in blocked shots for his team and didn't play against opposing teams top lines.

Letang, more deserving then Subban but similar stats, was more of a middle of the road D-man and not his teams shut down guy.

To me the Norris should go to a shut down D-man who also put up good points, Weber last year, Chara, Keith, and not just the D-man who played like a forward and scored points but didn't have any real defensive responsibilities.
This has been happening on and off for many, many years. Very sad.

Here's an example: Doug Wilson +1 for the season, and he was my idol. http://www.nhl.com/ice/historicalsta...ion=D&country=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GPxkpjCvWI


Last edited by LBS8844: 05-09-2013 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Humor injection regarding the voters.
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Old
05-09-2013, 01:12 PM
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HawksTillDeath
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ive been saying for a while there should be an offensive D and defensive D award

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Old
05-09-2013, 03:35 PM
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Sir Psycho T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
I'd take Subban and Karlsson, defensively, over Phaneuf all day. I think your underrating both, especially Subban.
Not a chance, compare stats and Phanuef has more blocks, much more PK time, more take-aways and is always matched up against opposing teams best players.

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