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Old
05-15-2013, 02:38 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Again, cheering for another team to win doesn't (always) equal cheering for your team to lose. Ultimately you want your team to win, the question is when, and more importantly, what are they winning?
But the thing is, in any case where the Flames have a chance to win the Stanley Cup this season, there is absolutely no logic that should, in my opinion, bring a fan to cheer against them winning. The problem with this logic is that a) you assume that you can predict how the playoffs are going to play out and b) you assume that you can predict how the top prospects are going to develop.

Besides that, the scenario which you described- a team very low in the standings barely squeaking into the playoffs- sounds remarkably like the LA Kings of last year. If our team was 14th at the deadline and ended up making the playoffs, it would mean that they really put it together in the second half. Of course we should get behind our team, as they have shown themselves more than capable of winning.

Anyway, the reason deals are structured that way with conditions is to reward teams when they need it, and not if they don't. If our team is capable of making the playoffs, then you cheer for them, and if you don't feel that the team can win without that pick, it should be viewed as a mistake by the GM in the trade (in allowing that condition), not by the team in trying to win.

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05-15-2013, 02:51 PM
  #152
Lazar Beams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Again, cheering for another team to win doesn't (always) equal cheering for your team to lose. Ultimately you want your team to win, the question is when, and more importantly, what are they winning? In the dynamics of hockey that includes business among many paradigms, the game at hand might not be the priority. Basically, are they winning a 60 minute hockey game, or are they winning a cup 5 seasons from now?

Take the dynamics of injury. If you know a player is on the trade block and is being shopped, do you want them blocking shots, fighting, and doing all the things that's helping the immediate victory while risking injury that affects the greater organizational victory?

Now let's take the Sharks for example. A playoff club that has a solid playoff position is selling off assets that (arguably) are important to a playoff run at the deadline. Is that not the greater victory? Would that be looking for/cheering for losses?

Perhaps this is a better scenario:
Still nope. Especially cheering for in/out of a playoff spot.

Scenarios where I might consider cheering for the Flames to lose:

- Nobody on earth would ever go hungry again.
- World peace would be achieved, and would be permanent.
- I get one billion dollars. *pinky at corner of mouth*

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05-15-2013, 03:08 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by wflames View Post
But the thing is, in any case where the Flames have a chance to win the Stanley Cup this season, there is absolutely no logic that should, in my opinion, bring a fan to cheer against them winning. The problem with this logic is that a) you assume that you can predict how the playoffs are going to play out and b) you assume that you can predict how the top prospects are going to develop.

Besides that, the scenario which you described- a team very low in the standings barely squeaking into the playoffs- sounds remarkably like the LA Kings of last year. If our team was 14th at the deadline and ended up making the playoffs, it would mean that they really put it together in the second half. Of course we should get behind our team, as they have shown themselves more than capable of winning.

Anyway, the reason deals are structured that way with conditions is to reward teams when they need it, and not if they don't. If our team is capable of making the playoffs, then you cheer for them, and if you don't feel that the team can win without that pick, it should be viewed as a mistake by the GM in the trade (in allowing that condition), not by the team in trying to win.
Don't judge me, I know I got a problem.

Same scenario, except the reason the Flames squeak into the playoffs not because of a good late season winning record, but because of problems in league disparity and even worse records from the few teams actually chasing a playoff spot


Last edited by MarkGio: 05-21-2013 at 02:27 PM. Reason: smartphone grammer
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Old
05-15-2013, 03:15 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Still nope. Especially cheering for in/out of a playoff spot.

Scenarios where I might consider cheering for the Flames to lose:

- Nobody on earth would ever go hungry again.
- World peace would be achieved, and would be permanent.
- I get one billion dollars. *pinky at corner of mouth*

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Old
05-19-2013, 12:26 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Huffman View Post
Are we talking about the same Elias Lindholm? He doesn't shoot very much at all. Both his linemates had way more SOG than Lindholm this year, he is a pure playmaker and a pass-first guy.
This is pretty much my take on Lindholm too. Granted, I haven't seen him play very much but from what I have seen, he makes scoring chances happen but he himself, is not much of a finisher. A whole lot of almost.... I'm really not as high on him as most others seem to be. I'm hoping for Monahan, since I really, really doubt that Barkov slips to 6th.

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05-19-2013, 12:30 PM
  #156
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And for what it's worth, I'd take Nichushkin over Lindholm even though we do really need a #1 center. In my mock draft, I had Lindholm going to the Devils at #9.

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05-19-2013, 02:01 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoFlames View Post
This is pretty much my take on Lindholm too. Granted, I haven't seen him play very much but from what I have seen, he makes scoring chances happen but he himself, is not much of a finisher. A whole lot of almost.... I'm really not as high on him as most others seem to be. I'm hoping for Monahan, since I really, really doubt that Barkov slips to 6th.

Day one they had him as a Backstrom/Forsberg type player. I both of those are pass first guys and I would love to have.

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05-20-2013, 11:46 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by LetsGoFlames View Post
And for what it's worth, I'd take Nichushkin over Lindholm even though we do really need a #1 center. In my mock draft, I had Lindholm going to the Devils at #9.
Completley disagree. Out of the possible selections for Calgary at #6 Nichuskin is the player I least want the flames to pick. We need a center or at the very least maybe even a Defencman, but certainly not a winger because even though we don't have a very deep prospect pool, wing is the one position I believe the flames have the most depth at with guys like Baertchi, gaudreau and ferland. Also honestly Nichuskin scares the crap out of me.… he has two more years on his contract in Russia and honestly to me he has evgeny kusnetsov written all over him and we know how that is working out for the capitals right now.

Bottom line Nichuskin is a great prospect but the Russian factor and the fact he plays on the wing are two reasons why I hope feaster and weisbrod stay away from him.

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05-21-2013, 03:09 PM
  #159
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Boy, the Red Wings are sure giving us something to cheer about. Just go .500 from here on out, Wings!

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05-21-2013, 03:13 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by wflames View Post
Boy, the Red Wings are sure giving us something to cheer about. Just go .500 from here on out, Wings!
Can't stand the Hawks, so I'm doubly happy about this. Really wasn't expecting them to put up a fight, beyond the first round against the wildly overrated Ducks, who played over their heads in the shortened regular season. I hope they keep up the pressure and smash Chicago in five. Most likeable team left in the West in my opinion.

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05-21-2013, 03:35 PM
  #161
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Calgary is a top 5 drafting team for the next 2 years for sure. We have NO young talent outside of Sven that can come in and possible become elite.

Jankowski is a few years away, so is Gaudreau, whoever we draft this year is likely 2-3 years from really coming out.

Its a rebuild, get used to talking about draft picks.

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05-21-2013, 04:26 PM
  #162
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I have this strange feasting that the Flames are going to take Hunter Shinkaruk in the six spot. If this happens, I don't think I'd be upset about it....unless they passed on Barkov.

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05-21-2013, 04:33 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Murda View Post
I have this strange feasting that the Flames are going to take Hunter Shinkaruk in the six spot. If this happens, I don't think I'd be upset about it....unless they passed on Barkov.
No thanks, not a fan of this kid. I think we can do better with Monohan. I think Hunter's ego needs to be checked and could slide in the draft.

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05-21-2013, 04:51 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by J Murda View Post
I have this strange feasting that the Flames are going to take Hunter Shinkaruk in the six spot. If this happens, I don't think I'd be upset about it....unless they passed on Barkov.
Feasting? Was that intentional, or a Freudian slip?

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05-21-2013, 04:53 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by TriPPinVdUb View Post
No thanks, not a fan of this kid. I think we can do better with Monohan. I think Hunter's ego needs to be checked and could slide in the draft.
I hope you're right, I'd be ecstatic if he fell to the St. Louis pick..

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05-21-2013, 05:14 PM
  #166
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I hope you're right, I'd be ecstatic if he fell to the St. Louis pick..
Id be all over this kid with the ST'L pick. I think he would look great next too Monohan and Baertchi, I just don't like him with our first.

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05-21-2013, 11:17 PM
  #167
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What will happen to the Flames picks with each possible playoff outcome:
- I am ignoring the Sharks/Kings series because the winner will draft in the final 4 and the loser ahead of St. Louis's pick -

If the.......
  • Rangers, Wings & Senators win then the Blues pick will be 19th & Penguins pick 25th
  • Bruins, Wings & Senators win then the Blues pick will be 20th & Penguins pick 25th
  • Rangers, Hawks & Senators win then the Blues Pick will be 20th & Penguins 26th
  • Bruins, Hawks & Senators win then the Blues pick will be 21st & Penguins 26th
  • Rangers, Wings & Penguins win then the Blues pick will be 20th & Penguins 27th to 30th
  • Bruins, Wings & Penguins win then the Blues pick will be 21st & Penguins 27th to 30th
  • Rangers, Hawks & Penguins win then the Blues pick will be 21st & Penguins 27th to 30th
  • Bruins, Hawks & Penguins win then the Blues pick will be 22nd & Penguins 27th to 30th

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05-22-2013, 05:46 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by TriPPinVdUb View Post
Id be all over this kid with the ST'L pick. I think he would look great next too Monohan and Baertchi, I just don't like him with our first.
Yep taking hunter at the 6 spot is far to early. I see him going 10th at the earliest.

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05-24-2013, 03:00 AM
  #169
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Maybe a little preemptive, but pretty safe to say that the St Louis pick will be 21.
Gentlemen, start your draft guesses. ;]

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05-24-2013, 07:41 AM
  #170
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Maybe a little preemptive, but pretty safe to say that the St Louis pick will be 21.
Gentlemen, start your draft guesses. ;]
I agree. That is the most likely place we pick with the Pens pick being final 4.

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05-24-2013, 10:36 AM
  #171
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Right in Feaster/Weisbrod's wheelhouse, I could see the Flames taking at #21 overall, from the US-NTDP, J.T. Compher.

http://www.collegehockeyprospective....usive-profile/
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/jt-compher/
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013/NHL-D...les/JT-Compher
http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/jt-compher/18898/

Thing is - there's a huge plateau around pick 11/12 where anyone from 12-35ish on most rankings could get picked anywhere in that range. Compher is on my list at 22; but it wouldn't surprise me if Gauthier, Erne, or Pulock are available at 21 - all of whom I'd take before Compher.

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05-24-2013, 10:38 AM
  #172
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Can't wait for the hull we get at the draft.

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05-24-2013, 01:16 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Right in Feaster/Weisbrod's wheelhouse, I could see the Flames taking at #21 overall, from the US-NTDP, J.T. Compher.

http://www.collegehockeyprospective....usive-profile/
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/jt-compher/
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013/NHL-D...les/JT-Compher
http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/jt-compher/18898/

Thing is - there's a huge plateau around pick 11/12 where anyone from 12-35ish on most rankings could get picked anywhere in that range. Compher is on my list at 22; but it wouldn't surprise me if Gauthier, Erne, or Pulock are available at 21 - all of whom I'd take before Compher.
Id add Lazar, Hartman and Morrisy to that list. This year its really going to depend on who needs what. Im sure there are a few teams out there that will have there sights set on specific players regardless of where they are being ranked because it is such a deep draft year.

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05-24-2013, 01:54 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPPinVdUb View Post
Id add Lazar, Hartman and Morrisy to that list. This year its really going to depend on who needs what. Im sure there are a few teams out there that will have there sights set on specific players regardless of where they are being ranked because it is such a deep draft year.
Lazar and Hartman, sure.

Morrisey isn't even in my top 30.

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05-24-2013, 02:17 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Lazar and Hartman, sure.

Morrisey isn't even in my top 30.
how is morrissey not in your top 30

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