HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Alain Vigneault - The Watch Begins.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-19-2013, 10:53 PM
  #901
PokeCheck101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Promethesis View Post
Reading the comments on that article by a bunch of idiots made my head hurt...
Amazing how Sedin's turn it up for Sweden.... I think it's time to move on.

PokeCheck101 is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 10:54 PM
  #902
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,923
vCash: 50
trade the sedin's what? can you even trade something owned by a player? isn't that up to them

Verviticus is online now  
Old
05-19-2013, 10:56 PM
  #903
PokeCheck101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 527
vCash: 500
NTC is biting Vancouver in the arse... Not to mention their goalie situation... They've got a boat load of money tied up in these guys.

PokeCheck101 is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 11:03 PM
  #904
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,923
vCash: 50
you still haven't told me what possession of the sedins you want to trade, and how you go about doing it. will trading this thing make them fearful? appreciative?

is it a family member? were you going to trade their children

Verviticus is online now  
Old
05-19-2013, 11:05 PM
  #905
EpochLink
Canucks and Jets fan
 
EpochLink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,713
vCash: 500
After seeing the Sedin's do well in the Worlds, ownership/management won't be happy with the coaching staff

EpochLink is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 11:10 PM
  #906
JuniorNelson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: E.Vancouver
Country: Australia-Aboriginal
Posts: 5,473
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by EpochLink View Post
After seeing the Sedin's do well in the Worlds, ownership/management won't be happy with the coaching staff
The Worlds ain't no NHL.

JuniorNelson is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 11:15 PM
  #907
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krnuckfan View Post
Who said otherwise?
Anybody claiming Sedin performance at Worlds is "evidence" that AV is a bad coach.

Which would be half this thread.

 
Old
05-19-2013, 11:47 PM
  #908
Hielo Grande
Registered User
 
Hielo Grande's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: vallarta
Country: Mexico
Posts: 558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
What the hell is happening to me...a Botchford article I agree with?
give your head a shake, boy

Hielo Grande is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 11:53 PM
  #909
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
The Modfather
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,522
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hielo Grande View Post
give your head a shake, boy
I had to look out my window to make sure pigs weren't flying around my yard.

The Worlds aren't the NHL, that's true enough - but I think the difference in how the Twins were utilized and how they responded was pretty glaring. They owned the power play, they killed penalties, they were relied on in every big situation that Alain Vigneault and Co. have tried not to use them in for years. It just seems to me like the Twins have more to offer than they have been allowed to show. To use an NHL example, the 2010 series vs. LA, where our PK was being eviscerated. The Twins finally convinced Vigneault to use them on the PK to try and right the ship, and they managed to do it - while lighting up the Kings at the same time.

Replacing the coaching staff won't magically turn the Twins into the 2+ point-per-game players they are at the Worlds, but it may allow certain members of the team to show more than they've been allowed to, and put them in situations to better succeed.

Mr. Canucklehead is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 12:05 AM
  #910
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Replacing the coaching staff won't magically turn the Twins into the 2+ point-per-game players they are at the Worlds, but it may allow certain members of the team to show more than they've been allowed to, and put them in situations to better succeed.
Hold on, now. For years the argument has been that Gillis, not AV, is the brainiac behind the whole "zone starts" system. Because, you know, AV is clearly not smart enough to implement something like that.

If - IF - what you say is legit criticism, then it has to be at least as much a criticism of Gillis as of the coaching staff.

 
Old
05-20-2013, 12:08 AM
  #911
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,923
vCash: 50
huh? im pretty sure credit was being given exclusively to AV until recently

edit: not useful


Last edited by Verviticus: 05-20-2013 at 12:23 AM.
Verviticus is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 12:10 AM
  #912
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
why does every discussion about AV and gillis need to turn into cheerleading? its tiring
Who is cheerleading?

 
Old
05-20-2013, 12:21 AM
  #913
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,923
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Who is cheerleading?
i had a really long post lamenting it but i think its probably better not to say anything else honestly. ignore what i said

Verviticus is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 12:24 AM
  #914
BlackAces
Play Your Game
 
BlackAces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Hold on, now. For years the argument has been that Gillis, not AV, is the brainiac behind the whole "zone starts" system. Because, you know, AV is clearly not smart enough to implement something like that.

If - IF - what you say is legit criticism, then it has to be at least as much a criticism of Gillis as of the coaching staff.
I believe it was always AV behind zone starts. Considering Gillis' desire to be "hands-off" towards coaching it would make the most sense. I also found this quote:

Quote:
Charron: When you get a guy into your line up like Manny Malhotra, do you know from the pro scouting staff that he's a guy that can start, say, 90% of his shifts in the defensive zone?

Vigneault: Well, the guy that are pro obviously I know a little bit more and I feel certain guys are better suited for different situations. I like my offensive players to, if I can, start them in the offensive zone and my more defence-oriented guys I'd start in the defensive zone. I just feel it gives us a better chance in such a competitive league.
Obviously it isn't definitive proof but it hints towards AV being the mastermind behind the zone starts

BlackAces is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 12:25 AM
  #915
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
The Modfather
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,522
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Hold on, now. For years the argument has been that Gillis, not AV, is the brainiac behind the whole "zone starts" system. Because, you know, AV is clearly not smart enough to implement something like that.

If - IF - what you say is legit criticism, then it has to be at least as much a criticism of Gillis as of the coaching staff.
That's news to me, but if - IF - what you say is legitimate, Gillis has to answer for it as much as Vigneault, I agree.

Mr. Canucklehead is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 12:26 AM
  #916
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
i had a really long post lamenting it but i think its probably better not to say anything else honestly. ignore what i said
No worries.

For my own part, while I do consider much of the chatter about AV to be scapegoating, the reality is that the team bombed out of the playoffs again, and has therefore earned the right to seek employment elsewhere.

And Gillis is next, if it happens again.

 
Old
05-20-2013, 03:10 AM
  #917
LiquidSnake*
Agent of Chaos...
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Orescovich cost 1st round picks
No he didnt actually. He was part of a package for Ballard that cost a 1st round pick. Nice try though.

LiquidSnake* is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 03:11 AM
  #918
LiquidSnake*
Agent of Chaos...
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Jovo signed for 6.5 million when the cap was 20 million lower. That was a good walk. Plus it was special Ed.
Letting an asset walk that had high value is poor management no matter how you slice it. The Canucks werent a playoff team and Nonis refused to believe it.

LiquidSnake* is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 03:25 AM
  #919
hlrsr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Letting an asset walk that had high value is poor management no matter how you slice it. The Canucks werent a playoff team and Nonis refused to believe it.
Wasn't Jovo injured that year, amongst a long line of injuries to the defense? They were in the playoffs for most of the season and flamed out badly at the very end. Trading Jovo was not the obvious choice you're making it out to be.

hlrsr is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 03:35 AM
  #920
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 22,105
vCash: 500
I'm not really sure how the zone start system relates to Sedins not being on the PK or being misused on the PP. The zone start system, whoever came up with it, was one of the better advancements in coaching in last 10+ years. Other teams have also started utilizing it, if not necessarily in the same way.

Tiranis is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 03:40 AM
  #921
Samzilla
Prust & Dorsett are
 
Samzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 11,700
vCash: 50
Why are we still talking about AV and when he's going to go instead of who our awesome new coach is going to be? Get on it, Gillis. #fireAV

Samzilla is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 03:44 AM
  #922
LiquidSnake*
Agent of Chaos...
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlrsr View Post
Wasn't Jovo injured that year, amongst a long line of injuries to the defense? They were in the playoffs for most of the season and flamed out badly at the very end. Trading Jovo was not the obvious choice you're making it out to be.
Cloutier was gone for the season in November I believe and the team was struggling ever since that. The Canucks were a bubble team. Outside of some hardcore fans, it was evident that this team was getting stale. Similar to this season.

If trading Jovo wasnt an option at the time, I'm curious as to why Jovo never even tendered an offer.

LiquidSnake* is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 04:49 AM
  #923
mossey3535
Registered User
 
mossey3535's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 500
The more I think about it, the less I see AV as a detail oriented coach. That's the thing that we don't do well - the little things. When I watch a game I see a million little things that guys are not doing well. The number one thing which IMO is unforgivable and happens dozens of times a game is that the winger who is not dumping the puck in does not read the play and get a step in on the forecheck. Even with our red-line tip play which I think we grossly overuse, if you see you are not getting the tip from the d-man with the puck, that is more than enough time to get on your horse and on the forecheck.

Blah blah, the players aren't executing. Sorry, I don't buy it. When a line is not executing, that is not unusual. There are always guys on a team who are not firing on all cylinders and more often than not that malaise infects his whole line. But when your entire TEAM is making bad decisions constantly, that points to a systemic problem.

In this respect he is a victim of his own style. You can't be a demanding guy who expects all the details to be paid attention to on one hand and then say - oh, you guys know what to do just respect the process and run the room yourselves. I don't think it's a coincidence that the last SC winning coaches have been guys who have a reputation for being demanding and have worn out their welcome in other cities in the past.

It also explains why the average coach in the league only lasts 2-3 seasons. By that time you can probably tell if the coach and team are going to mesh and you should be seeing improvements in their play. Pass 5 years and you're probably wasting your time.

mossey3535 is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 05:37 AM
  #924
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
All three of them were offered contracts actually so you literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Huh? So as long as they're offered contracts, the GM is not to be blamed for them walking? Is that what you're saying?

Please explain the logic behind that stance, as at the present moment I can't see any. Of course a guy like Torres is going to sign somewhere else if they're offering him 2 years and Gillis is offering 1. That absolves Gillis of any sort of culpability? That's what you're suggesting?!?

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 02:32 PM
  #925
LiquidSnake*
Agent of Chaos...
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Huh? So as long as they're offered contracts, the GM is not to be blamed for them walking? Is that what you're saying?

Please explain the logic behind that stance, as at the present moment I can't see any. Of course a guy like Torres is going to sign somewhere else if they're offering him 2 years and Gillis is offering 1. That absolves Gillis of any sort of culpability? That's what you're suggesting?!?
I'm not surprised you fail to see logic btw.

He tried to get them re-signed but players decided to go for their own security by signing longer deals. I see no problem with that.

Had Gillis signed any of these guys to higher contracts, I'm sure you'd be posting on here about how he signed them to terrible deals.

Essentially, whatever he does you're going to rip. And whatever Nonis does seems to be an excellent move. Regardless of the fact that he only made the playoffs once and traded away 2nd round picks for rentals at the deadline.

LiquidSnake* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.