HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Why does Gillis get a free Pass?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-13-2013, 04:31 PM
  #251
arsmaster*
semantic romantic
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 25,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
Gillis ability to acquire good defensemen should be applauded. Erhoff, Tanev, Garrison, Hamhuis, and to a lesser extent Rome (solid depth d-man) is an excellent track record. Corrado is a top prospect.
Ballard, Gragnani, Barker, Alberts....

I agree with you, but just a little devil's advocate.

arsmaster* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 04:56 PM
  #252
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Ballard, Gragnani, Barker, Alberts....

I agree with you, but just a little devil's advocate.
Gotta swing to hit a homer. And besides, only one of those is a genuine mistake. Gragnani was a throw in, Alberts has been serviceable, and Barker didn't play when it mattered.

Ballard, sure. I'll give that one to anyone. Jason Botchford was saying Ballard was a Gillman player, though, so maybe he doesn't count.

Wisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 07:50 PM
  #253
Freakshow
Registered User
 
Freakshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,237
vCash: 500
Mike Gillis has done some good things regarding the on-ice product, but, he's also royally screwed up. This year being a good example, he absolutely gets no free passes from me, or Ed Willies.

He can make all the excuses he wants to but he should have moved Cory Schneider at some point early in the year, or last summer, for a very good return. His asset management is and has been extremely poor!! How many years have the Canucks gone without secondary scoring, two, three, four?

Alain Vigneault
Cody Hodgson
David Booth
Keith Ballard

Now he needs to move at least three core players to change the culture of this organization, Edler, Bieksa, Kesler, Schneider, Luongo, Burrows, Hansen???

Freakshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 08:44 PM
  #254
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 23,085
vCash: 500
I don't understand how David Booth is still being listed as a mistake. Acquired for a salary dump and an aging, injured winger. Even if you're in the camp that believes he should be bought out, it was and is a good move.

Tiranis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 08:47 PM
  #255
tantalum
Registered User
 
tantalum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 15,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't understand how David Booth is still being listed as a mistake. Acquired for a salary dump and an aging, injured winger. Even if you're in the camp that believes he should be bought out, it was and is a good move.
Yep. And people seem to completely ignore that as a canuck he scored at a 20+ goal pace despite having, what, 3 significant injuries.

tantalum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 09:03 PM
  #256
Freakshow
Registered User
 
Freakshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't understand how David Booth is still being listed as a mistake. Acquired for a salary dump and an aging, injured winger. Even if you're in the camp that believes he should be bought out, it was and is a good move.
He's only a mistake if Mike Gillis decides to keep him, it's quite clear he is not a good fit here for various reasons. If Gills continues to believe in him, like he did with Mason Raymond, he's clearly in over his head. It's time to cut bait!

Freakshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 09:29 PM
  #257
Zanon
Registered User
 
Zanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
He can make all the excuses he wants to but he should have moved Cory Schneider at some point early in the year, or last summer, for a very good return. His asset management is and has been extremely poor!! How many years have the Canucks gone without secondary scoring, two, three, four?
Been saying this all along! After Gillis hitched his wagon to Luongo, he should've moved Cory. Just look at the circus it has created.

Zanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 10:07 PM
  #258
shaolinson
J. Smegma #46
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: Cuba
Posts: 1,067
vCash: 500
I used to have a lot of faith in Gillis.
Adding better facilities and programs for development... encouraging players to sign for less.
Letting Ehrhoff go was a big disappointment.

Trading away Grabner and our 1st(Howden) for Ballard was ridiculous. I had been watching Grabner grow for a while.
Giving Hodgson up, even if necessary was horrible for that return was brutal.
Keeping AV. Letting AV bench Ballard.
Being unable to trade Luongo and having the faith where he can talk his way out of anything is too much.

shaolinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 10:11 PM
  #259
shaolinson
J. Smegma #46
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: Cuba
Posts: 1,067
vCash: 500
PS: where is that 1st line RW?

shaolinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 10:19 PM
  #260
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 18,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
Gillis ability to acquire good defensemen should be applauded. Erhoff, Tanev, Garrison, Hamhuis, and to a lesser extent Rome (solid depth d-man) is an excellent track record. Corrado is a top prospect.
Big fan of Gillis' body of work with the defense. Both in terms of drafting and free agent signings. He had the right idea from the get-go that you need skill and quick transition from the backend to be successful and he's continued to draft the right type of blueliners IMO.

It's up front where Gillis has been an unmitigated disaster IMO. He hasn't even come close to supplementing this core group with skill or impact forwards and it's become a big problem. If this issue doesn't get sorted out soon it's time to clean out the pro and amateur scouting staff's and start over.

I am definately concerned with how the forward corps will shape up next season. We still have a glaring hole at centre behind the top 2 and there just isn't enough skill, size or goalscoring ability as a group. Many holes, few assets and dollars to address them. Gillis really has his work cut out for him.

Drop the Sopel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 10:21 PM
  #261
CanaFan
Registered User
 
CanaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't understand how David Booth is still being listed as a mistake. Acquired for a salary dump and an aging, injured winger. Even if you're in the camp that believes he should be bought out, it was and is a good move.
Well one could question how great of a deal the booth trade was when the "salary dump" was a guy Gillis had literally signed and played for, what, 8 games? And the aging, injured winger had just one year left in a reasonable contract before we took on Booths $4.25M x4 years contract. Sort of like patting yourself on the back for driving drunk but only hitting 1 parked car on the way home ...

CanaFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 10:34 PM
  #262
WestleySnipez
Christmas came early
 
WestleySnipez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vancouver. Duh.
Country: Canada
Posts: 525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnychiba View Post
I used to have a lot of faith in Gillis.
Adding better facilities and programs for development... encouraging players to sign for less.
Letting Ehrhoff go was a big disappointment.

Trading away Grabner and our 1st(Howden) for Ballard was ridiculous. I had been watching Grabner grow for a while.
Giving Hodgson up, even if necessary was horrible for that return was brutal.
Keeping AV. Letting AV bench Ballard.
Being unable to trade Luongo and having the faith where he can talk his way out of anything is too much.
ERHOFF: Not signing Erhoff was a disappointment, but we didn't have the cap to keep him, otherwise I'm 100% sure MG would have.

BALLARD/GRABNER: The year before we traded for Ballard, we had a humongous hole on defense. Here's a refresher: Bieska, Erhoff, Edler, Mitchell, Salo, O'Brien. Not bad. But then take a look at the injuries we suffered on it. O'Brien missed 17, Bieksa missed 27, Mitchell just under half the season. When you have Brad Lukowich playing 13 games, that's 13 too many.

Now look at our offense/wingers. Our Top 6 all had 25 goals or more that year. Raymond was 24 and pocketed 25 goals and 53 points. From that, I'd of thought it was safe to say we had a young sniper who could be a 30 goal scorer in the next two years. Grabner was no longer needed, we were looking to upgrade our D, and both Mitchell and O'Brien weren't going to be resigned. Ballard had been putting up consecutive 30 point seasons and would help out that 2nd line powerplay even more. We we're expected to finish in the Top 5 (25th Overall Pick), so Grabner and a 1st wasn't THAT bad of a move. No one could have known that Raymond wouldn't come close to the 25 goal campaign again and Ballard would never be played by AV. Plus, we didn't have Hamhuis at the time, so we didn't know if we'd have 4 Top 4 defenseman.

HODGSON: I completely agree, we could of gotten more for him, but at least Kassian still has the potential to be a 1st line forward.

WestleySnipez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 10:58 PM
  #263
Freakshow
Registered User
 
Freakshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Big fan of Gillis' body of work with the defense. Both in terms of drafting and free agent signings. He had the right idea from the get-go that you need skill and quick transition from the backend to be successful and he's continued to draft the right type of blueliners IMO.

It's up front where Gillis has been an unmitigated disaster IMO. He hasn't even come close to supplementing this core group with skill or impact forwards and it's become a big problem. If this issue doesn't get sorted out soon it's time to clean out the pro and amateur scouting staff's and start over.

I am definately concerned with how the forward corps will shape up next season. We still have a glaring hole at centre behind the top 2 and there just isn't enough skill, size or goalscoring ability as a group. Many holes, few assets and dollars to address them. Gillis really has his work cut out for him.
Regarding the top six, Gillis has done nothing to add to it, outside of the Booth experiment, in five years. These have been his "go to" guys for the past three years, and currently they still are. Absolutely terrible!!! No additions in five years.

Henrik
Daniel
Kesler
Burrows
Raymond

Freakshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 11:05 PM
  #264
iFan
Horvat to Virtanen
 
iFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,371
vCash: 500
I think if Gillis keeps this core and doesn't make big moves this summer and this Canucks team misses the playoffs next year he's gone, if this team has another 1st round exit the heat will be really on him for sitting still for back to 1st round exits, this next season will really be telling for his future here. I really think Gillis can and is a great GM that we don't want to lose but he hasn't done too much to make this his team, here's his chance, lets see what he does.

iFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 11:15 PM
  #265
freakydave
Registered User
 
freakydave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 799
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
Regarding the top six, Gillis has done nothing to add to it, outside of the Booth experiment, in five years. These have been his "go to" guys for the past three years, and currently they still are. Absolutely terrible!!! No additions in five years.

Henrik
Daniel
Kesler
Burrows
Raymond
But according to most in this thread he's a top 10 GM in the NHL.

freakydave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 11:28 PM
  #266
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Big fan of Gillis' body of work with the defense. Both in terms of drafting and free agent signings. He had the right idea from the get-go that you need skill and quick transition from the backend to be successful and he's continued to draft the right type of blueliners IMO.

It's up front where Gillis has been an unmitigated disaster IMO. He hasn't even come close to supplementing this core group with skill or impact forwards and it's become a big problem. If this issue doesn't get sorted out soon it's time to clean out the pro and amateur scouting staff's and start over.

I am definately concerned with how the forward corps will shape up next season. We still have a glaring hole at centre behind the top 2 and there just isn't enough skill, size or goalscoring ability as a group. Many holes, few assets and dollars to address them. Gillis really has his work cut out for him.
Disaster is an overstatement. He's grabbed quite a few good complimentary pieces in Higgins, Torres, Malhotra, Samuelson, Lapierre. Even the Sundins, Wellwoods, and Demitras have been decent. I agree he hasn't been able to find any true blue top 6 talent. The bottom of that boat has fallen out in the last few seasons with the complimentary pieces transitioning out. Roy and Booth were both good grab on paper, but Roy being lazy garbage and booth being wacked by injuries is unbelievably disappointing..

I think the only way to start finding the forward reinforcements is from within. Start leaning on the ELCs and getting a coach willing to use them and teach them.

Wisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 11:33 PM
  #267
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 11,080
vCash: 50
in what CrazyTown is 53 points in 69 games or 30 goals, 53 points in 74 games not true top 6 talent??

Verviticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 11:34 PM
  #268
Freakshow
Registered User
 
Freakshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydave View Post
But according to most in this thread he's a top 10 GM in the NHL.
I'll be absolutely choked if he doesn't make some significant moves this summer, beginning with the firing of our coach. Two to three core players need to be moved, including the likes of Cory Schneider who I think is a great goaltender. When you have an asset like that and strength in the position you make a deal, never fall in love with a player. It's about the crest on the front not the names on the back!

As much as it sucked to trade Trevor Linden, it got us Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe (who was used to get the second draft choice to pick Henrik) and Jarko Ruutu. Maybe not a great example but that's how you keep the franchise relevant.

Freakshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 11:42 PM
  #269
BoeserOfTwoEvils
3rd overall? Nope!
 
BoeserOfTwoEvils's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Port Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,402
vCash: 500
g

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
I'll be absolutely choked if he doesn't make some significant moves this summer, beginning with the firing of our coach. Two to three players core players need to be moved, including the likes of Cory Schneider who I think is a great goaltender. When you have an asset like that and strength in the position you make a deal, never fall in love with a player. It's about the crest on the front not the names on the back!

As much as it sucked to trade Trevor Linden, it got us Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe (who was used to get the second draft choice to pick Henrik) and Jarko Ruutu. Maybe not a great example but that's how you keep the franchise relevant.
If he *****foots around and goes the Marco Sturm route again he can pretty much kiss his job goodbye.

BoeserOfTwoEvils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 04:40 AM
  #270
SgtToody
Registered User
 
SgtToody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydave View Post
I am serious.

Being the best of one the worst divisions hockey & not recognizing & filling team needs makes him a middle of the road to poor GM.

Just like when Brian Burke was here & he couldn't find a starting goalie to save his job,
GMMG had D-corps, front line scoring, goaltending already in place when he got here -he can't find top 6 secondary scoring to save his life. I don't know if he's a top 20 GM(he maybe somewhere between 11-29) but if you can't think of ten GM's you'd rather have you are not trying.
Agree. Of the teams that missed the playoffs, PHO/Maloney is more resourceful, TB/Yzerman has shown willingness for bold moves, not mere bold talk, WPG/Cheveldae appears more astute in talent evaluation... Give or take and considering what he inherited talent-wise, Gillis is about average; too in-love with how own players and too generous contract time.

SgtToody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 04:47 AM
  #271
SgtToody
Registered User
 
SgtToody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't understand how David Booth is still being listed as a mistake. Acquired for a salary dump and an aging, injured winger. Even if you're in the camp that believes he should be bought out, it was and is a good move.
Acquiring him wasn't a mistake - appeared to be a good return on first blush. Not moving him when issues popped up was. Repeat of other failure. It would fall under poor resource management...

SgtToody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 05:23 AM
  #272
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 11,080
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtToody View Post
Agree. Of the teams that missed the playoffs, PHO/Maloney is more resourceful, TB/Yzerman has shown willingness for bold moves, not mere bold talk, WPG/Cheveldae appears more astute in talent evaluation... .
maloney i can give to you without a huge stretch, but steve "i trade real assets for a 2nd tier goaltending prospect every year and can't build a defence to save my life" yzerman and Kevin "i signed pavelec to anything but a 2 way 650k" Cheveldayoff (you got him mixed with tim cheveldae) are both bottom rung soon-to-be-replaced (hopefully for their fans)

hilariously enough the 'strengths' you used to describe them have both proven to be catastrophic weaknesses

Verviticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 05:43 AM
  #273
Ronning On Empty
Moderator
Formerly BleachClean
 
Ronning On Empty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't understand how David Booth is still being listed as a mistake. Acquired for a salary dump and an aging, injured winger. Even if you're in the camp that believes he should be bought out, it was and is a good move.

Agreed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
Yep. And people seem to completely ignore that as a canuck he scored at a 20+ goal pace despite having, what, 3 significant injuries.

The injuries are really at the heart of the matter. If he's in the line-up scoring 20 goals a year, playing with size and speed, he's doing his job. Therefore less to complain about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtToody View Post
Acquiring him wasn't a mistake - appeared to be a good return on first blush. Not moving him when issues popped up was. Repeat of other failure. It would fall under poor resource management...


"Issues" being injuries?

Ronning On Empty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 03:40 PM
  #274
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 11,080
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The injuries are really at the heart of the matter. If he's in the line-up scoring 20 goals a year, playing with size and speed, he's doing his job. Therefore less to complain about.
honestly i dont even mind having injury prone players on the team. good players are good players and we saw the benefit to having salo on the team in 2011 - we entered the playoffs straight up plus one top four defenceman because of convenient injuries

Verviticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 03:43 PM
  #275
Momesso
High-End Intangibles
 
Momesso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,624
vCash: 500
Does anyone think there's a possibility that Gillis' (perceived) lack of popularity amongst GMs leads to an inability to make deals and/or forge connections within the industry?

Momesso is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:05 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.