HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

You simply can't win with a goalie who plays like a tomato can...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-09-2013, 09:39 AM
  #1
Riddum
Registered User
 
Riddum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,340
vCash: 500
You simply can't win with a goalie who plays like a tomato can...

...no matter how solid the D and offense is. We're seeing this with a lot of really good teams right now. In fact, goaltending is the most important position in hockey.

So, supposed upsets may not really be upsets when it comes down to it.

Riddum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 09:42 AM
  #2
Bob Richards
Global Moderator
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 49,024
vCash: 50
I think your chances are better than a solid goalie and terrible defense.

At least with a good D, they can limit the chances at a weak goalie. Even the best goalies can't put up God-Mode performance night in and out when they are getting shellacked constantly.

__________________
"New day, new hope. Richards Buyout 2014". -Ail
Bob Richards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:00 AM
  #3
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Shogunate of Nofunia
Country: Fiji
Posts: 32,154
vCash: 5113
There's a reason why the netminder is considered the most important position in sports. At the very least, you need an average goalie behind a great defense to win.

No Fun Shogun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:01 AM
  #4
CoopALoop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Van, Bandwagoner
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
I think your chances are better than a solid goalie and terrible defense.

At least with a good D, they can limit the chances at a weak goalie. Even the best goalies can't put up God-Mode performance night in and out when they are getting shellacked constantly.
A goaltender's performance is heavily influenced by the team in front of him.

A teams performance is (not as heavily) impacted by the goalie behind them.

Goaltending gets the largest scrutiny in the playoffs because it's a solo position in a team sport. As well as every mistake is amplified during the playoffs.

Hell, look at Vancouver the last 2 playoff years, goaltending was not our largest issue and yet we went 1/9.

CoopALoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:02 AM
  #5
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,702
vCash: 500
Gotta be able to score.

Anth93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:04 AM
  #6
Riddum
Registered User
 
Riddum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
I think your chances are better than a solid goalie and terrible defense.

At least with a good D, they can limit the chances at a weak goalie. Even the best goalies can't put up God-Mode performance night in and out when they are getting shellacked constantly.
Good point. But when I look back at Montreal a few years ago (during the Halak beast-mode), I feel like our defense wasn't as good as it is now. We were getting bombarded every night but Halak was standing on his head. I felt more confident in the back end than I do right now.

Price is a great goalie, but he's been letting in softies and seems to have confidence issues, right now. He's been shaky since the end of the season. When I see Ottawa mounting an offense, it feels like at any given point they could score.

That goal Budaj let in was soft but he came in cold, in OT so he has an excuse. It has to feel bad for the players when there's that lack of confidence in your goalie.

Riddum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:04 AM
  #7
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 15,333
vCash: 500
2010 Flyers

Hivemind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:05 AM
  #8
Frankie41987
Registered User
 
Frankie41987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kings Park
Country: Tibet
Posts: 377
vCash: 500
this seems to be an argument some are making with regard to the pens-isles series, but look at Nabokov's save percentage, it is by FAR the worst in these playoffs. The difference in that series is the defense keep scoring chances low. The Pens just aren't doing that right now.

Frankie41987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:06 AM
  #9
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,521
vCash: 50
The analogy is lost on me. Did you mean Swiss cheese? Either way, great defense and average goaltending trumps great goaltending and average defense most of the time

Teeder9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:06 AM
  #10
Quarter
Exploding Knees
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,248
vCash: 500
Chicago proved this theory wrong in 2010.

Quarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:22 AM
  #11
Marvelous Manked
Ooh to be a Gooner
 
Marvelous Manked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sudbury/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,397
vCash: 500
I think while people scramble to find out which cog is more effective for winning the cup, they don't see the answer right in front of them. All of the above.

99% of the time, the cup winner is balanced in ALL three categories.

Marvelous Manked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:24 AM
  #12
HawkinMI
Registered User
 
HawkinMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,930
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarter View Post
Chicago proved this theory wrong in 2010.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

But seriously. Did you watch Niemi?

HawkinMI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:27 AM
  #13
VinnyC
vancity, c-bus, 'peg
 
VinnyC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 新香
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarter View Post
Chicago proved this theory wrong in 2010.
Niemi was solid whenever he had to be, so there's that. 2010 Flyers are a better example.

VinnyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:32 AM
  #14
HawkinMI
Registered User
 
HawkinMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,930
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Niemi was solid whenever he had to be, so there's that. 2010 Flyers are a better example.
Niemi was better than that. Two shutouts against Nashville in round 1, completely stole the series against San Jose, and stoned the Flyers countless times at key points (I'll always have that Carter shot with not much time left in the 3rd of game 6 that he absolutely robbed burned into my brain). The only series where I'd say he was just okay was Vancouver, and the Hawks didn't need him to be that great when Vancouver self-destructed after game 2.


He's a Vezina candidate for a reason. I don't like him, but he's damn good.

HawkinMI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:34 AM
  #15
Dwight Schrude
Registered User
 
Dwight Schrude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 874
vCash: 500
Anything is better than a tomato can.

Dwight Schrude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:35 AM
  #16
handbanana
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
handbanana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 9,353
vCash: 500
Heinz #57 for vezina

handbanana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:39 AM
  #17
Fozz
Registered User
 
Fozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Schrude View Post
Anything is better than a tomato can.
Depends on the size of the can...

Fozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:48 AM
  #18
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 15,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Depends on the size of the can...

Hivemind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:50 AM
  #19
Bill McCreary
Self-Righteous
 
Bill McCreary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 2,362
vCash: 500
Not a tomato can, but I think you can at least make it to the 2nd round with a Chunky's Clam Chowder can.

Bill McCreary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:51 AM
  #20
Dwight Schrude
Registered User
 
Dwight Schrude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Served

Dwight Schrude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:53 AM
  #21
Melnyks Mirage
We're doomed.
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cumberland
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,463
vCash: 303
Depends what kind of tomato. Pretty sure Sally Tomato could handle it.

Melnyks Mirage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:55 AM
  #22
Bill McCreary
Self-Righteous
 
Bill McCreary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 2,362
vCash: 500
Someone needs to make a Fleury/tomato can photoshop ASAP.

Bill McCreary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 10:59 AM
  #23
danmcn12
#freeRedmond
 
danmcn12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,033
vCash: 500
I'm not really sure if playing like a tomato can is good or bad.

danmcn12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 11:01 AM
  #24
Trebek
Mod Supervisor
 
Trebek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 24,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarter View Post
Chicago proved this theory wrong in 2010.
In the scoring environment of the 2010 playoffs, Niemi was an above average goaltender:

http://www.hockeygoalies.org/bio/niemi.html

He wasn't amazing, but if you have a great team in front of you, sometimes above average is all you need.

Trebek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 11:03 AM
  #25
Beerfish
Registered User
 
Beerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarter View Post
Chicago proved this theory wrong in 2010.
Only because the tenders on the other team were actually worse.

Beerfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.