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Zack Kassian's Future

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Old
05-17-2013, 10:05 PM
  #176
BoeserOfTwoEvils
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Next season is huge for his development. If he flounders again, things won't be looking so good. Especially since Hodgson will probably break 50 points quite easily and might even crack 60 with that ice time. And I know they're different players and all that...but that's a big difference in points to 10 or however many he's shown to be able to put up so far.

He needs to put up 12-15 goals and 30 points to get moving in the right direction.

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05-17-2013, 10:08 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Right now, Bernier is the better player. At the same age, Bernier was a far more productive player than Kassian is right now.
bernier and kassian had almost identical draft positions and it's easy to forget that at one time bernier was one of the best power forward prospects in the league...obviously his offensive game never developed but he's pretty much an ideal bottom-6 forward for the devils now

not many players see a decrease in their goals/game average decrease every year after their rookie year but that's what happened to bernier...for kassian there's nowhere to go but up in that category

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05-18-2013, 03:47 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Right now, Bernier is the better player. At the same age, Bernier was a far more productive player than Kassian is right now.
Of course at 21-22, Bernier was a more productive player than any of the Canucks (Sedins included). He's had a very unusual career trajectory.

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05-18-2013, 05:12 PM
  #179
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Comparing Bernier and Kassian is a huge stretch. Kassian is much bigger and stronger than Bernier. Bernier had a reputation for playing hard with the body but he never really had the size. When Kassian develops he will be a much more valuable player.

I think the term 'power-forward' is misunderstood very often.

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05-18-2013, 05:17 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Comparing Bernier and Kassian is a huge stretch. Kassian is much bigger and stronger than Bernier. Bernier had a reputation for playing hard with the body but he never really had the size. When Kassian develops he will be a much more valuable player.

I think the term 'power-forward' is misunderstood very often.
Zack Kassian: 6'3", 214lbs.
Steve Bernier: 6'3", 220lbs.

'Never really had the size'.

Ok.

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05-18-2013, 05:27 PM
  #181
Al Swearengen
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
Zack Kassian: 6'3", 214lbs.
Steve Bernier: 6'3", 220lbs.

'Never really had the size'.

Ok.
Kassian is still young. He could put on another 15lb in man weight.

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05-18-2013, 05:34 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
Zack Kassian: 6'3", 214lbs.
Steve Bernier: 6'3", 220lbs.

'Never really had the size'.

Ok.
I think the fact I thought Bernier was significantly smaller kinda proves my point still.

Bernier tended to play small while Kassian plays bigger. Do you think that's accurate?

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05-18-2013, 05:47 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Bernier tended to play small
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Bernier had a reputation for playing hard with the body
Which is it?

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05-18-2013, 05:48 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
Kassian is still young. He could put on another 15lb in man weight.
Yup, and he took off 20 lbs last summer trying to get into better shape

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05-18-2013, 05:50 PM
  #185
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Kassian will break out and be a star afer this team is no longer a playoff contender, because that is the Canuck way.

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05-18-2013, 05:54 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
I think the fact I thought Bernier was significantly smaller kinda proves my point still.

Bernier tended to play small while Kassian plays bigger. Do you think that's accurate?
Nope not accurate at all. They're both similar except Kassian is a better fighter. Kassian looks to be heading in the similar path as Bernier. Expected to be 1st line PWF with scoring touch, but will end up being a 3rd or 4th line grinder. His hands are not soft like what Bert had, he's not out of the norm huge either and most NHL D can handle his size even if he gets to 230, he's got ok top speed but slow accleration, he's shot is ok but not very accurate. Hope his puck protection will get better cause right now it's not going to be effective againist any top 4 D in the league. The only thing he has going for him right now is age and the thought of him becoming something he may never become. With every Bert and Hartnell, there're a lot more Bitz and Bernier. Not getting my hopes up since I don't see any skill behond the flashes every big 3rd or 4th liner has shown in the NHL.

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05-18-2013, 06:06 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
Kassian is still young. He could put on another 15lb in man weight.
Sure, he could. But will that help with a guy whose acceleration, quickness, agility are already lackluster? Kassian over time may be able to change the composition of his body, his conditioning, strength, etc. Much like the Sedins who are undeniably stronger now at roughly the same weight, than they were in their early years. But there is still an 'effective range' for hockey players for the most part. After a point...it just seems to hurt players effectiveness on the ice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
I think the fact I thought Bernier was significantly smaller kinda proves my point still.

Bernier tended to play small while Kassian plays bigger. Do you think that's accurate?
I don't. Kassian plays 'big' occasionally. There are flashes. But a large amount of the time, he plays far smaller than he is...and he hasn't shown the skating ability or instincts to be productive in that sort of game.

Bernier's problem has always been that he just has hands of stone and relatively low hockey IQ. His physical play was a bit inconsistent when he first came to the Canucks, but no more so than Kassian. And if you've watched Bernier recently...he's really adopted the mentality of that bottom-6 grinder, and the physical play that comes with it.

As a fighter, sure...Bernier wasn't what Kassian offers, and he never could match Kassian's 'escaped lunatic from the local insane asylum' look...But realistically, Bernier plays just as 'big' as Kassian these days, and is in fact...just as 'big' in measurable terms.

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Originally Posted by Hansen 36 View Post
Yup, and he took off 20 lbs last summer trying to get into better shape
Exactly. Kassian shed weight to improve his conditioning and ability to play big minutes...and he still didn't demonstrate a great deal of stamina and ability to maintain full intensity for any great stretches of time. Putting on weight isn't necessarily going to make him more effective anyway, and if he can be effective at whatever weight...that'd be great. But to say that he's 'bigger' than Bernier doesn't really mean much in absolute measurable terms, or in terms of effectiveness.

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05-22-2013, 10:44 PM
  #188
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How are people ragging on Zack Kassian when the entire team played poorly from the Wolves to the Canucks. Nobody that isn't a fresh rookie had a career year for us and from top to bottom the team didn't play a consistent game. How can we expect more from a guy like Kassian than we do from our vets?

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05-23-2013, 04:03 AM
  #189
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I still think Kassian has a good future, and the ability to be an important offensive contributor. One thing he has is the ability to create chances with his stick handling and ability to beat guys one on one. We haven't quite seen it too often at the NHL level since his finish is questionable, but in the AHL, and the odd time in the NHL we've seen it.

Zack hasn't really found out what player he can be yet, partly because he never really had a clear role on the team. He wasn't particularly effective in any role, and perhaps his best games were the limited games he saw with Booth and Lapierre. He wasn't good as a 4th line, energy type, as he went looking for hits unnecessarily, and wasn't quite fast enough to get there and taking dump penalties whenever he landed one. In a scoring role, he was inconsistent, and didn't really find chemistry on any line, and he doesn't have the conditioning to play important checking line kind of minutes.

I think the coaching staff and management will really have to help him along to find a role for him on the team. I think offensively, he's better with the puck then without it as in I don't see him as just a banger and crasher or just standing in front of the net. He isn't quite fast enough to generate offence on the rush, but he has the hands and size to do it off the cycle. If he can complement a line doing this, he can blossom.

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05-23-2013, 04:10 AM
  #190
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Unless we get Erkisson or an equivalent top tier winger. I want Kassian to be a mainstay with the Sedins for a minimum of twenty games. Unless it is a train wreck or a lack of chemistry is obvious. Kassian needs a boost in confidence and reassurance he can make a mistake and not be crucified for it. That will go a long way in improving his development.

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05-23-2013, 04:13 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Unless we get Erkisson or an equivalent top tier winger. I want Kassian to be a mainstay with the Sedins for a minimum of twenty games. Unless it is a train wreck or a lack of chemistry is obvious. Kassian needs a boost in confidence and reassurance he can make a mistake and not be crucified for it. That will go a long way in improving his development.
I completely agree. Burrows can play with Kesler and solve our Top 6 winger issue, especially since he can play LW or RW.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Burrows

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05-23-2013, 05:03 AM
  #192
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I still think Kassian has a good future, and the ability to be an important offensive contributor. One thing he has is the ability to create chances with his stick handling and ability to beat guys one on one. We haven't quite seen it too often at the NHL level since his finish is questionable, but in the AHL, and the odd time in the NHL we've seen it.

Zack hasn't really found out what player he can be yet, partly because he never really had a clear role on the team. He wasn't particularly effective in any role, and perhaps his best games were the limited games he saw with Booth and Lapierre. He wasn't good as a 4th line, energy type, as he went looking for hits unnecessarily, and wasn't quite fast enough to get there and taking dump penalties whenever he landed one. In a scoring role, he was inconsistent, and didn't really find chemistry on any line, and he doesn't have the conditioning to play important checking line kind of minutes.

I think the coaching staff and management will really have to help him along to find a role for him on the team. I think offensively, he's better with the puck then without it as in I don't see him as just a banger and crasher or just standing in front of the net. He isn't quite fast enough to generate offence on the rush, but he has the hands and size to do it off the cycle. If he can complement a line doing this, he can blossom.
he can't be put onto the 4th line for any extended amount of time next year IMO. He has skill and he knows it so I dont think he will ever excel in a pure energy role.

He was inconsistent but he's had his best moments with the sedins, but I dont think he should play with them. Keep him away from kesler as well unless kes really buys in when the next coach comes along. imo he really needs a Sedin-lite line to be formed to best use him like a kid line.

Part of the reason he never found an identity is because this team hasn't really played an effective down-low game besides the Sedins. All the other lines were rush players trying to halfheartedly play in a chip and chase system.

Anyways I hope next year is a good step for him

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05-23-2013, 07:27 AM
  #193
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Nope not accurate at all. They're both similar except Kassian is a better fighter. Kassian looks to be heading in the similar path as Bernier. Expected to be 1st line PWF with scoring touch, but will end up being a 3rd or 4th line grinder. His hands are not soft like what Bert had, he's not out of the norm huge either and most NHL D can handle his size even if he gets to 230, he's got ok top speed but slow accleration, he's shot is ok but not very accurate. Hope his puck protection will get better cause right now it's not going to be effective againist any top 4 D in the league. The only thing he has going for him right now is age and the thought of him becoming something he may never become. With every Bert and Hartnell, there're a lot more Bitz and Bernier. Not getting my hopes up since I don't see any skill behond the flashes every big 3rd or 4th liner has shown in the NHL.
eactually. good scoring PWF are very hard by and much harder to predict how they will turn out as prospects. Every draft you get your Berniers, Zemgus Girgenson's, Tom Wilson's. So very few turns to be scoring power forwards like Lucic or Bertuzzi. Its hard to predict power fowards since we see these guys dominate junior when they are already 220sh pounds against kids but when they come into the NHL they are matched in sizes and they have to adjust their offensive game.

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05-23-2013, 10:35 AM
  #194
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eactually. good scoring PWF are very hard by and much harder to predict how they will turn out as prospects. Every draft you get your Berniers, Zemgus Girgenson's, Tom Wilson's. So very few turns to be scoring power forwards like Lucic or Bertuzzi. Its hard to predict power fowards since we see these guys dominate junior when they are already 220sh pounds against kids but when they come into the NHL they are matched in sizes and they have to adjust their offensive game.
Kassian has Bertuzzi-like size and skill. He could certainly be a very good player, if he is committed to getting fit. If he continues his poor off-ice behaviour (and lack of any fitness program) he will be out of the league.

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05-23-2013, 10:50 AM
  #195
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They really need to give him a defined role for a while. He's got the hands and size to be a net presence type guy in the Detroit style. He and Booth showed chemistry, but not results, off the rush. The pieces are there he and the team just need to find a way to make it work. Worth preserving with.

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05-23-2013, 10:59 AM
  #196
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Kassian has Bertuzzi-like size and skill. He could certainly be a very good player, if he is committed to getting fit. If he continues his poor off-ice behaviour (and lack of any fitness program) he will be out of the league.
Actually Kassian busted his ass last offseason, so it's silly to state with pretend authority that he lacks any sort of fitness program. As for the off-ice stuff, he's just a kid.

I'm actually glad we have a player who gets drunk and rowdy at the Roxy every now and again, I don't think our squeaky clean Christian crew are particularly well suited to the playoffs.

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05-23-2013, 11:13 AM
  #197
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Actually Kassian busted his ass last offseason, so it's silly to state with pretend authority that he lacks any sort of fitness program. As for the off-ice stuff, he's just a kid.

I'm actually glad we have a player who gets drunk and rowdy at the Roxy every now and again, I don't think our squeaky clean Christian crew are particularly well suited to the playoffs.
If Kassian was fit, he would have continued to play a regular shift with the Sedins. Why do you think the Canucks had him come and work-out with the Twins? It was because Kassian had no idea what it was to be a professional. His commitment to fitness (off-ice training) is very much a concern.

If Kassian becomes truly fit, he will dominate - he has a very unique skill-set.

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05-23-2013, 11:19 AM
  #198
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Next season is huge for his development. If he flounders again, things won't be looking so good. Especially since Hodgson will probably break 50 points quite easily and might even crack 60 with that ice time. And I know they're different players and all that...but that's a big difference in points to 10 or however many he's shown to be able to put up so far.

He needs to put up 12-15 goals and 30 points to get moving in the right direction.

Well given his overall pace this year was 15 goals and 23 points and your moving in the right direction target is pretty much exactly that wouldn't he already be moving in that right direction?

Yes he started out hot and cooled down (guess what so to did Hodgson!) but this year should have always been treated as a learning experience for him. My guess is that if he has a good off season (and the canucks should be ensuring this...send him over to train with the twins for a month, keep on him 24/7 the rest of the way), you are going to see a guy that with PP time that is going to score 20 goals next season.

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05-23-2013, 11:24 AM
  #199
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Well given his overall pace this year was 15 goals and 23 points and your moving in the right direction target is pretty much exactly that wouldn't he already be moving in that right direction?

Yes he started out hot and cooled down (guess what so to did Hodgson!) but this year should have always been treated as a learning experience for him. My guess is that if he has a good off season (and the canucks should be ensuring this...send him over to train with the twins for a month, keep on him 24/7 the rest of the way), you are going to see a guy that with PP time that is going to score 20 goals next season.
Are you saying Kassian is another Krutov, and needs a personal 'watch dog'? That is a HUGE red flag for a professional athlete. His willingness to train (and be fit) is a direct indication of his inner push to compete, and win. I was worried about Kassian's commitment before, but now - after reading your concerns too - I am thinking this guy will never improve.

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05-23-2013, 11:39 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
If Kassian was fit, he would have continued to play a regular shift with the Sedins. Why do you think the Canucks had him come and work-out with the Twins? It was because Kassian had no idea what it was to be a professional. His commitment to fitness (off-ice training) is very much a concern.

If Kassian becomes truly fit, he will dominate - he has a very unique skill-set.
[mod] He was extremely committed to fitness, but he's a young, heavy and raw player. This year was really his first NHL season, and it was a highly compressed one at that. Most would be winded under the circumstances.

He will continue to get fitter, and should handle the rigours of an NHL season with age, but his commitment wasn't the issue.


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