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Reforming Elitserien into the Swedish Hockey League

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05-18-2013, 08:32 AM
  #1
Rutkowski
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Reforming Elitserien into the Swedish Hockey League

Probably a worn out topic by now but didn't see anything with a quick glance. Anyway, me and a buddy braintrusted a bit(over a not small number of beers) over how we'd like to see Elitserien shape up.

In the end, we had this product:
Norra Ligan(Northern League)
Norrlands Grupp(Group of Norrland)
IF Björklöven
Luleå HF
Modo Hockey
Skellefteå AIK
Timrå IK

Dalarnas Grupp(Group of the Dales)
Almtuna IS
Brynäs IF
Färjestad BK
Leksand IF
Mora IK

Södra Ligan(Southern League)
Västra Gruppen(Group of the West)
Frölunda HC
HV71
Malmö Redhawks
Rögle BK
Växjö Lakers

Östra Gruppen(Group of the East)
AIK Solna
Djurgården IF
Linköping HC
Södertälje SK
Örebro HK

Qualifiers for picking these teams:
1. If you're currently or just recently were in Elitserien, you're in.
2. If you're from a traditional hockey power(i.e Mora, Timrå), you're in.
3. If you're a big city team in the top two leagues, you're in(Almtuna, SSK).
4. If you otherwise have a good record of attendance or results, you're in.

I think that cover all of the teams.

Like in the NHL of tomorrow(and yesterday), the top four teams of each division would have it's own playoffs to decide the winner and after that they'd face their conference winner and eventually the league title games; all best of seven(because the NHL playoffs rule). That means that only four teams total would miss the playoffs but honestly; I don't have a problem with that. It's either that or eight teams(out of 20) which is too strict to me or bye rounds and bye rounds are for stupid people.

During the league each opponent would play their division opponents six teams each(for a total of 24 games), their conference opponents two times each(home and home for a total of 10 games) and the league opponents two times each(home and home for a total of 20 games). Would cut down travel costs(which are quite big considering Sweden is a large country by area in Europe and it's already an expensive sport) and foster rivalry to build up league popularity. That would result in 54 games per season, one less than the current format.

Some groups would be weaker and some stronger due to regional considerations. Group of Norrland would be quite dangerous with Luleå, Modo and Skellefteå all being good teams(recently).
Dalarna would be a fight between Färjestad and Brynäs with Färjestad playing the role of the champions most of the time, not much unlike Edmonton and Calgary during the 80's.
Group of the west would be, well, rather easy for HV71. Rögle and Malmö currently play in the second tier while Frölunda and Växjö just isn't that good right now(Växjö is small, Frölunda have huge economic issues). That said, Växjö seems to have HV71's number and the Frölunda games are usually close for HV so it's more who can beat up on Rögle and Malmö the most.
Group of the east have one good team(Linköping), one decent(AIK) and three bad(Södertälje, Örebro and Djurgården). On the other hand, Södertälje, AIK and Djurgården are all from Stockholm and Örebro and Linköping are within driving distance. By far the best group for the fans(and I say that as someone who hate the 08 teams).

So yeah, the map would look like this:
Attached Images
File Type: gif sverige.gif‎ (75.9 KB, 31 views)


Last edited by Rutkowski: 05-18-2013 at 06:29 PM.
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05-19-2013, 05:19 AM
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Grammar Butcher
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AIK Solna

Such a club doesn't exist.

Allmänna Idrottsklubben - In short AIK. That's it!


Last edited by Grammar Butcher: 05-19-2013 at 05:24 AM.
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05-19-2013, 09:35 AM
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Rutkowski
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Wah wah I wrote this for the international crowd to clearly differentiate between Skellefteå AIK and AIK. AIK Solna might not be the actual name but just like how Swedish Elite League is more commonely used than Elitserien internationally AIK Solna is more commonly used than AIK internationally.

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05-19-2013, 11:27 AM
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Grammar Butcher
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Whatever.... I guess it's to hard to just write Skellefteå for Skellefteå AIK and it's easier to make up a name that doesn't exist then?

I'm out of here....

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05-19-2013, 12:03 PM
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Aahlstroem
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So Frölunda and Färjestad will only play against eachother two times a season? No way
And Almtuna over Västerås?

What about relegation?

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05-19-2013, 12:19 PM
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I'd be happy to demotion and promotion gone since Malmö sucks and I'd take the free promotion to SEL anyday. But in reality, Allsvenskan gets almost as much attention as SEL does, and Kvalserien too, is almost equal to the playoffs. If the allsvenskan teams could get some more cash from TV-deals and so forth, it would be amazing.

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05-19-2013, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnawer View Post
AIK Solna

Such a club doesn't exist.

Allmänna Idrottsklubben - In short AIK. That's it!
In ice hockey they're called Allmänna Idrottsklubben Ishockeyförening — In short AIK IF.

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05-19-2013, 05:39 PM
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Rutkowski
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Originally Posted by Aahlstroem View Post
So Frölunda and Färjestad will only play against eachother two times a season? No way
And Almtuna over Västerås?

What about relegation?
Almtuna goes in before Västerås because Uppsala is a larger city. Västerås was the last team out, actually, but I couldn't find either A) a team that it had a better reason to be in the SHL than or B) three more teams to join the SHL with it. And there is no relegation at all. If a team isn't economically fit long-term to remain in the SHL, another can step up to replace it.

Also, Skellefteå is most often shortened to SAIK so to remove that part of the name is kind of, well, stupid. And I did not know about AIKIF, should start referring to it just to troll gnagetfans.

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05-19-2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutkowski View Post
Also, Skellefteå is most often shortened to SAIK so to remove that part of the name is kind of, well, stupid. And I did not know about AIKIF, should start referring to it just to troll gnagetfans.
You'll be trolling Skellefteå fans by saying SAIK and AIK fans by saying AIK IF. Perfect.

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05-19-2013, 05:50 PM
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As has been said numerous times in the past, a closed top division would kill all the leagues beneath it.

It's not a direction Swedish hockey would benefit from.

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05-19-2013, 06:16 PM
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As has been said numerous times in the past, a closed top division would kill all the leagues beneath it.

It's not a direction Swedish hockey would benefit from.
I'm not entirely sure about that. I mean, people still play for the youth clubs of the top teams in pretty much every big sport in Sweden. To have "farm" teams and the possibility of a real career(as in, full-time job instead of part-time job) for a larger amount of players would benefit the sport in the long run.

I'd rather have that than what it is right now; several teams who really can't afford to bet high as they are and go broke in return. If the teams would get the chance to properly rebuild it'd make for a better competition and better growth instead of teams having to overspend year after year to try to stay in the top 2 flights even though they can't afford it and need to rebuild.

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05-19-2013, 10:26 PM
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I think 20 teams and the NHL concept is overkill, but I'm a fan of the divisional concept(and perhaps 16 teams).

Divisions could change on a year-to-year basis depending on the teams in the league, and also switch between being three or four of them to fit geography(it's a small country, no need to be rigid). In the Swedish version of things the divisions would merely serve as a way to build rivalrys and more interesting matchups, not any guaranteed playoff seeds/spots.

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05-20-2013, 01:19 AM
  #13
Rutkowski
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
I think 20 teams and the NHL concept is overkill, but I'm a fan of the divisional concept(and perhaps 16 teams).

Divisions could change on a year-to-year basis depending on the teams in the league, and also switch between being three or four of them to fit geography(it's a small country, no need to be rigid). In the Swedish version of things the divisions would merely serve as a way to build rivalrys and more interesting matchups, not any guaranteed playoff seeds/spots.
If we're removing relegation or promotion, 20 teams is the bare minimum.

I mean, let's say we go with the current 12 and add on four on the current Elitserie teams? Which ones? The top four(the two teams relegated last season(Timrå and Rögle) + Västerås and Karlskoga? Yeah, try convincing the league to keep DIF out. Or the big-city teams first(DIF, Almtuna, Södertälje, Malmö)? That would be kinda ****** to a LOT of the other teams that finished better than all or some of them.

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05-20-2013, 01:48 AM
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Too many teams. How is this league supposed to be competitive on a high level?

The only way a league like this works is if we bring in the Fins and get a new and bigger market. I would actually like that. West division (Sweden) and east division (Finland). West Champs = Swedish champs. East champs = Finish champs. West Champs vs. East Champs = Nordic Champs.

Nordic Hockey League (NHL).


Last edited by icing: 05-20-2013 at 01:54 AM.
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05-20-2013, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rutkowski View Post
I'm not entirely sure about that. I mean, people still play for the youth clubs of the top teams in pretty much every big sport in Sweden. To have "farm" teams and the possibility of a real career(as in, full-time job instead of part-time job) for a larger amount of players would benefit the sport in the long run.

I'd rather have that than what it is right now; several teams who really can't afford to bet high as they are and go broke in return. If the teams would get the chance to properly rebuild it'd make for a better competition and better growth instead of teams having to overspend year after year to try to stay in the top 2 flights even though they can't afford it and need to rebuild.
Must be real fun being a fan of a team left out.
Come on. We're not in NA, we're not the NHL and we're perfectly fine with that.

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05-20-2013, 08:44 AM
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Rutkowski
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Too many teams. How is this league supposed to be competitive on a high level?
By teams being able to get away from the worry of demotion with a rebuild they can focus on the sport and putting out the best product. Yeah, top talents will still go to the NHL but isn't that the same in the KHL(other than a few exceptions)? Hockey would also grow because, IMO, the product would be a lot more entertaining because it's no way to deny that there's teams in HockeyAllsvenskan that have potential for supporter growth(Almtuna, Malmö) that would get a much better chance in the SHL.

Quote:
The only way a league like this works is if we bring in the Fins and get a new and bigger market. I would actually like that. West division (Sweden) and east division (Finland). West Champs = Swedish champs. East champs = Finish champs. West Champs vs. East Champs = Nordic Champs.

Nordic Hockey League (NHL).
That would be rather cool, yeah. Leagues are at a similar skill level and things would be competative and grudge matches would be galore, both local and regional rivalries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurMartin View Post
Must be real fun being a fan of a team left out.
Come on. We're not in NA, we're not the NHL and we're perfectly fine with that.
If the project works, expansion would be considered obviously. If a team can't handle the league, replace it with one that can!(but yeah, Västerås IK would be on top of that list IMO) But people will always be left out, that's how sports work.

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05-20-2013, 09:28 AM
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If the project works, expansion would be considered obviously. If a team can't handle the league, replace it with one that can!(but yeah, Västerås IK would be on top of that list IMO) But people will always be left out, that's how sports work.
I think his point was that all clubs needs the carrot infront of them. With your reasoning a super team could still be stuck in a "farmleague" That's a nice carrot im sure it will motivate many clubs and elevate swedish hockey.

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05-20-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Rutkowski View Post
Almtuna goes in before Västerås because Uppsala is a larger city. Västerås was the last team out, actually, but I couldn't find either A) a team that it had a better reason to be in the SHL than or B) three more teams to join the SHL with it. And there is no relegation at all. If a team isn't economically fit long-term to remain in the SHL, another can step up to replace it.

Also, Skellefteå is most often shortened to SAIK so to remove that part of the name is kind of, well, stupid. And I did not know about AIKIF, should start referring to it just to troll gnagetfans.
It's a slightly larger city. VIK had almost 2000 more averaged attendance then AIS last season. VIK is a more logical choice in my opinion. (Yeah I'm coloured, but I belive that so are you )


And my five cents for a new league:
16 teams
1-4. To quarterfinals
5-12. To eighth-final
13. Done for the season
14-15. To Kvalserien
16. Relegated to Allsvenskan

Eight-final: 5 vs 12, 6 vs 11, 7 vs 10, 8 vs 9 - Best of three
Quarterfinals: Highest ranked against lowest ranked
Semifinal: Highest ranked against lowest ranked
Final: Yeah

The team that finishes first in AS goes up to ES, no Kvalserie needed for them

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05-20-2013, 11:38 AM
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I like the regulation rounds and the openness of the SEL, it is free competition. But I have more and more gone to the conclusion that you need a closed series, each team with a farm team, if you are to straighten the organisations and by that make the SEL more competitive.

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05-20-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aahlstroem View Post
It's a slightly larger city. VIK had almost 2000 more averaged attendance then AIS last season. VIK is a more logical choice in my opinion. (Yeah I'm coloured, but I belive that so are you )
Fantastic Swenglish

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05-20-2013, 01:28 PM
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Fantastic Swenglish
Thank you! Swenglish FTW!
No english-lessons for almost a year now..

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05-20-2013, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dosing View Post
I think his point was that all clubs needs the carrot infront of them. With your reasoning a super team could still be stuck in a "farmleague" That's a nice carrot im sure it will motivate many clubs and elevate swedish hockey.
It works in north america so why not here? Lets face it: We're not gonna have twenty really strong teams in this country, so why would smaller clubs not be able to be player developers? It's not like lower Allsvenskan clubs are just throwing their revenues into their junior programs, instead they are trying to compete although everyonje knows it's rather futile.

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05-21-2013, 02:24 AM
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Dosing
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It works in north america so why not here? Lets face it: We're not gonna have twenty really strong teams in this country, so why would smaller clubs not be able to be player developers? It's not like lower Allsvenskan clubs are just throwing their revenues into their junior programs, instead they are trying to compete although everyonje knows it's rather futile.
Kids in those clubs still grow up with the thought back in the head that they can take their hometown to elitserien. Take that away and you got a bunch of smalltown kids jumping ships making the clubs even worse and so the overall quality falls and hockey is gone in all smaller towns and the sport becomes even less popular then it is now. And thats just the player aspect, i doubt the clubs will be very happy being told that they are always gonna be stuck playing div4 against olofstrom ik. And no, it working in america does not equal it working here lol.

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05-21-2013, 03:30 PM
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Franck
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Thank you! Swenglish FTW!
No english-lessons for almost a year now..
I believe the English word you were looking for is "biased."

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05-21-2013, 04:27 PM
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Rutkowski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aahlstroem View Post
It's a slightly larger city. VIK had almost 2000 more averaged attendance then AIS last season. VIK is a more logical choice in my opinion. (Yeah I'm coloured, but I belive that so are you )
Difference of over 60k in the municipalities, 30k in the cities. Not really "slightly larger".

But yeah, I don't deny that Västerås had a higher average attendance. However, as I've mentioned before, the setup I've put here also accounts for league growth in attendance. That together with the proposed Uppsala Arena(which is a really stupid project IMO) gives AIS a good chance to compete attendance-wise with many other clubs in the top 2 leagues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dosing View Post
I think his point was that all clubs needs the carrot infront of them. With your reasoning a super team could still be stuck in a "farmleague" That's a nice carrot im sure it will motivate many clubs and elevate swedish hockey.
Ah yes because Swedish hockey, which last I checked were ranked internationally behind both the SM-Liiga and the Czech Extraliga, is doing so fine.

Besides, since we've never had these "superteams" shoot up to the SEL and dominate there immediatly I think that situation is a wee bit unrealistic. And, as I've repeated numerous times but it have for some reason been ignored, if the league feel a team need to be replaced(instead of the US relocated), it may do so. If the league feel an expansion is due, it may do so.

Do I have to draw it out in paint or did everyone catch it this time?

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