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NHL close to new Player Transfer Agreements, World Cup becoming more of a reality

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Old
05-11-2013, 04:49 PM
  #26
joe89
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Originally Posted by nyrmetros View Post
It is absolutely not overkill. The more IIHF major hockey tournaments the better !!
World Cup is an NHL tournament, Olympics is the IOC, World Champs is the IIHF.

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05-11-2013, 05:38 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
That's correct. The new agreement will give the Swedish federation $240k per player, but $325k for every player after the 10th guy that is signed. They then spread the money to the clubs in question.

So if Sweden ships over 20 players one summer, they'll get $240k x 10 + $325k x 10 = $5,65M / 20 = $282,5k per player.

Previous agreement gave $225k per player regardless of how many.
Got a link for that? I assume it is the same for every nation?

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05-11-2013, 05:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
They're lucky to get anything. What's fair is for any league to pay whatever they want for a player and just to the player themselves.
It's a scorched earth strategy and the NHL doesn't necessarily play that way. The NHL pays development fees to the CHL teams for example. But IRC those are flat fees and not on a per player basis.

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05-11-2013, 09:03 PM
  #29
njdevsfn95
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If the NHL/IIHF do it right, holding the WC between the Olympics is a great idea.

Im not a fan of a major hockey tournament being held in September. Make it marquee.

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05-11-2013, 10:00 PM
  #30
RandV
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
I believe that over here the parents have to pay the full cost right up until the CHL level and even after that they are basically playing for free. No matter what level we are talking about for obvious reasons teams want to attract the best players they can and after they move on I don't think there is feeling that they are owed something further.

I can kind of see the point that if a pro club subsidized a kid for many years that they may feel they are owed something at the end, especially if it was agreed to (by his parents?) that he would play for them professionally when he got older and then he decided to leave for the NHL instead. However it seems to me that this should be between the player and his old club to work out. Why should the NHL have to pay for the develpoment of Europeans when they don't have to do the same for North American kids?

Having said all of this I think it makes sense for the NHL to help fund hockey develpoment everywhere, but that should be a business decision, not because they are forced to.
That's pretty much exactly it. The NHL could just not sign any agreements if they wanted and European teams would get nothing if/when a player comes over. But as the NHL benefits from European imports for the long term game it makes sense to help fund those leagues so they agree to these player transfer agreements.

Only place it doesn't work out is in Russia where they want to stand an equal footing with the NHL and not be treated like a developmental league. Obviously they have a long way to go before approaching the NHL's level, so it just ends up being a lot of barking.

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05-11-2013, 11:13 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
World Cup is an NHL tournament, Olympics is the IOC, World Champs is the IIHF.
Not totally true, while the IOC runs the Olympics, the individual events are run by the sports federations and thus, the IIHF runs the Olympic hockey tournament.

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05-11-2013, 11:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by njdevsfn95 View Post
If the NHL/IIHF do it right, holding the WC between the Olympics is a great idea.

Im not a fan of a major hockey tournament being held in September. Make it marquee.
The World Cup is essentially exhibition games and exhibition games belong in September -- the NHL season should not be interrupted for them.

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05-12-2013, 04:01 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
That's correct. The new agreement will give the Swedish federation $240k per player, but $325k for every player after the 10th guy that is signed. They then spread the money to the clubs in question.

So if Sweden ships over 20 players one summer, they'll get $240k x 10 + $325k x 10 = $5,65M / 20 = $282,5k per player.

Previous agreement gave $225k per player regardless of how many.
still not enough. I would not sign it, the is awfull deal for Swedes and Europe. As RandV signed, better NO DEAL than THIS

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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
That's pretty much exactly it. The NHL could just not sign any agreements if they wanted and European teams would get nothing if/when a player comes over. But as the NHL benefits from European imports for the long term game it makes sense to help fund those leagues so they agree to these player transfer agreements.

Only place it doesn't work out is in Russia where they want to stand an equal footing with the NHL and not be treated like a developmental league. Obviously they have a long way to go before approaching the NHL's level, so it just ends up being a lot of barking.
do it

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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
You keep saying it is unfair but not why. Please explain.
I this this SWEDISH GUY explained the situation very well, lets share his opinion.

Quote:
Dom enda som betalar för spelarna är ryssarna, dom kan betala mångmiljonbelopp för kontraktsbundna svenska spelare för hur mycket har inte Linköping inkasserat för Mårtensson och Weinhandel?
Mikael
http://www.hockeysverige.se/article/...-avtalet-klart

Quote:
The only people who pay for the players are Russians, they can pay many millions for contractual Swedish players for how much has not Linköping cashed for Mårtensson and Weinhandel?
Michael
If NHL can not afford to pay more, I like this model from NBA

Quote:
Brooklyn Nets GM Billy King told American media that Bojan Bogdanovic is seriously thinking of moving overseas this summer. The 23-year-old Croatian guard/forward wants to terminate his contract with Fenerbahce Ulker in order to be able to sign with the Nets. The 31st overall pick by New York Knicks in 2011 NBA Draft will face difficulty breaking his current deal with Fenerbahce though. The club will ask for buy-out but NBA clubs are only allowed to pay $500.000. The remaining amount must be covered by the player himself.
http://www.talkbasket.net/6879-bojan...klyn-nets.html
http://www.law.du.edu/documents/spor...95-bennett.pdf


Last edited by LadyStanley: 05-12-2013 at 12:50 PM. Reason: merged
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05-12-2013, 07:27 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac View Post
The World Cup is essentially exhibition games and exhibition games belong in September -- the NHL season should not be interrupted for them.
There is no reason the tournament cannot be made more important. August/September isn't prime-time for hockey fans.

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05-12-2013, 11:31 AM
  #35
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NHL should not go to the Olympics its not worth interupting the NHL season for a worthless tournament. Revive the WC of Hockey for the off season and stop going to the Olympics.

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05-12-2013, 01:56 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
That's pretty much exactly it. The NHL could just not sign any agreements if they wanted and European teams would get nothing if/when a player comes over. But as the NHL benefits from European imports for the long term game it makes sense to help fund those leagues so they agree to these player transfer agreements.

Only place it doesn't work out is in Russia where they want to stand an equal footing with the NHL and not be treated like a developmental league. Obviously they have a long way to go before approaching the NHL's level, so it just ends up being a lot of barking.
Why would the NHL do that?

The 'Russian factor' exists in part because there's no transfer agreement. Why would the NHL subject itself to a broader 'European factor'?

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05-12-2013, 02:39 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
I believe that over here the parents have to pay the full cost right up until the CHL level and even after that they are basically playing for free. No matter what level we are talking about for obvious reasons teams want to attract the best players they can and after they move on I don't think there is feeling that they are owed something further.

I can kind of see the point that if a pro club subsidized a kid for many years that they may feel they are owed something at the end, especially if it was agreed to (by his parents?) that he would play for them professionally when he got older and then he decided to leave for the NHL instead. However it seems to me that this should be between the player and his old club to work out. Why should the NHL have to pay for the develpoment of Europeans when they don't have to do the same for North American kids?

Having said all of this I think it makes sense for the NHL to help fund hockey develpoment everywhere, but that should be a business decision, not because they are forced to.
The NHL pays development fees to the CHL.....they also give USA Hockey millions.

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05-12-2013, 05:54 PM
  #38
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An NHL-like league in Europe would be great. KHL is slowly getting there.

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05-12-2013, 10:37 PM
  #39
Mr Kanadensisk
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
The NHL pays development fees to the CHL.....they also give USA Hockey millions.
Sure, as I said before it makes good business sense for them to do that. I'd be interested to see how the numbers work out though. I think a fair system would be if the NHL set aside a pot of money for development and then doled it out based on the number of players in the NHL that came from each minor league. For example as you know now there aren't very many Russians in the NHL, and even a good number of them came to the NHL from North American junior leagues so I can't see the NHL giving Russians much for development in relation to what they give the US and Canada.

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05-12-2013, 10:48 PM
  #40
LadyStanley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Sure, as I said before it makes good business sense for them to do that. I'd be interested to see how the numbers work out though. I think a fair system would be if the NHL set aside a pot of money for development and then doled it out based on the number of players in the NHL that came from each minor league. For example as you know now there aren't very many Russians in the NHL, and even a good number of them came to the NHL from North American junior leagues so I can't see the NHL giving Russians much for development in relation to what they give the US and Canada.
NHL (with funds from teams or central revenues; how much from where exactly is unclear) makes lump sum payments to each Hockey Canada and USA Hockey. (As in ~$4mm to USA Hockey IIRC from article a few years ago.)


The PTA system will allow individual teams to pay the freight as their $$s, per signed player will be combined and presented to Euro federations.

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05-12-2013, 11:11 PM
  #41
Jussi
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Originally Posted by Darlotto99 View Post
NHL should not go to the Olympics its not worth interupting the NHL season for a worthless tournament. Revive the WC of Hockey for the off season and stop going to the Olympics.
Right... Olympics is the worthless tournament and the World Cup is not.


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05-13-2013, 12:04 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Sure, as I said before it makes good business sense for them to do that. I'd be interested to see how the numbers work out though. I think a fair system would be if the NHL set aside a pot of money for development and then doled it out based on the number of players in the NHL that came from each minor league. For example as you know now there aren't very many Russians in the NHL, and even a good number of them came to the NHL from North American junior leagues so I can't see the NHL giving Russians much for development in relation to what they give the US and Canada.

No, a fair system is a 2-way transfer agreement. If the NHL is willing to pay $240k/player to European federation, it should likewise be willing to give up its own contracted players for same amount. But NHL is in the position of power to not allow this.


The disconnect is that the KHL refuses to be a development league for NHL. They're looking for compensation for lost assets as much as reimbursement for development costs.

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05-13-2013, 03:43 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
No, a fair system is a 2-way transfer agreement. If the NHL is willing to pay $240k/player to European federation, it should likewise be willing to give up its own contracted players for same amount. But NHL is in the position of power to not allow this.
Agreed. At the very least the agreement, whatever its terms, should be reciprocal.

It is always amusing to see NHL fans argue that the NHL should be able to sign players left and right for nothing, yet they're up in arms when Radulov does just that and goes to Ufa, or when locked out players so much as ponder if they should finish the season in the KHL should the lock-out come to an end mid-season.

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05-13-2013, 05:26 AM
  #44
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It is always amusing to see NHL fans argue that the NHL should be able to sign players left and right for nothing, yet they're up in arms when Radulov does just that and goes to Ufa, or when locked out players so much as ponder if they should finish the season in the KHL should the lock-out come to an end mid-season.
Well, it's a new experience for NHL fans, first reality check since the WHA days. Only that the KHL is not going to go away like the WHA. They better get used to it.

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05-13-2013, 05:50 AM
  #45
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Well, it's a new experience for NHL fans, first reality check since the WHA days. Only that the KHL is not going to go away like the WHA. They better get used to it.
Please, since Radulov show me which signed NHL players have headed over to KHL without team permission?

None? Oh yeah, that's right since KHL and NHL have MOA to not sign each other's signed players. I am not worried about KHL stealing NHL signed players right now, KHL and NHL have shown a willingness to abide by the MOA (Visnovsky, Prokhorkin).

However right now the NHL teams seem content to sit back and let KHL contracts expire then pull the kids overseas (Tarasenko, Orlov, Voynov, Ekman-Larsson) or the kids are coming across to CHL and going through there. It's no big deal, other than Kuznetsov (and he's still really young) no top prospect has NOT come over to NA. And right now the KHL is getting nothing for those players who leave as RFA's in the KHL.

If the KHL wants to continue to try to keep themselves on equal footing, at least in their minds, it makes sense for them to continue with this. However they are not getting paid for players leaving, which might get annoying. Remember than even WITH a transfer agreement the player must actually sign the NHL contract, which could be significantly less than the KHL contract. So even with a transfer agreement that would offer some recompense in case a Kuznetsov decided to bolt, it is entirely possible that Kuznetsov would stay in KHL with his contract there.

Up to them I guess. NHL teams will NEVER negotiate 1v1 with KHL teams vorky, give up that dream. NHL will not allow one team to drive up the price of all other transfers. They will sign a league wide transfer agreement, or simply wait for the contracts to expire in Europe and take the players out for nothing.

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05-13-2013, 06:22 AM
  #46
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Developmental Fees and Transfer Fees

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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
No, a fair system is a 2-way transfer agreement. If the NHL is willing to pay $240k/player to European federation, it should likewise be willing to give up its own contracted players for same amount. But NHL is in the position of power to not allow this.


The disconnect is that the KHL refuses to be a development league for NHL. They're looking for compensation for lost assets as much as reimbursement for development costs.
Two way transfer system is a fair system.

Okay when will all the European Hockey Federations or teams (depending on how the deal is structured)start paying developmental fees for all the Canadian and American players who play for European hockey teams? Canada and the USA minor hockey associations developed them yet European teams and leagues are getting the benefit of their talent without paying anything. Canadian and American minor hockey looks the other way.

The KHL is looking for compensation for lost assets.

Then they should enter the open market for hockey assets just like the WHA did and replenish or expand their asset base. The KHL is allowed to compete to sign the likes of Seth Jones, Nathan Mackinnon, Jonathan Drouin and other NA juniors just like the WHA did. The KHL can also compete for all the upcoming NHL free agents. All this is possible without paying any transfer or developmental fees.

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05-13-2013, 06:23 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
And right now the KHL is getting nothing for those players who leave as RFA's in the KHL.

If the KHL wants to continue to try to keep themselves on equal footing, at least in their minds, it makes sense for them to continue with this. However they are not getting paid for players leaving, which might get annoying. Remember than even WITH a transfer agreement the player must actually sign the NHL contract, which could be significantly less than the KHL contract. So even with a transfer agreement that would offer some recompense in case a Kuznetsov decided to bolt, it is entirely possible that Kuznetsov would stay in KHL with his contract there.
You make it sound like the KHL want to sell their players so as to get a decent transfer fee in return, and that keeping their players one further year or two only to see them leave for free hurt their business.

In the reality they want to keep their top players as long as they possibly can, which obviously helps their business. If and when a player wants out mid-contract, only then do they expect to be compensated neatly.

I has absolutely nothing to do with being on equal footing or "approaching the NHL's level".

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05-13-2013, 06:27 AM
  #48
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Please, since Radulov show me which signed NHL players have headed over to KHL without team permission?
Why should player go from NHL to European league (KHL, Elitserien, etc) with club´s permision? Yes, it is nice, but look what NHL has been doing for decades. NHL is bringing euro player WITHOUT permission of euro clubs, nobody have NEVER asked them. Dont bring argument with PTA, it is not deal among NHL club - euro club, but among NHL a IIHF/Federation, not euro clubs.

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NHL teams will NEVER negotiate 1v1 with KHL teams vorky, give up that dream.
Man, you never what you are talking about. Dont know why are you so offensive. Nothing happened, only KHL wants NHL to pay more money, that is bussiness and NHL will have to pay. Believe me, NHL does not have power and money to resist.


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05-13-2013, 06:38 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Two way transfer system is a fair system.

Okay when will all the European Hockey Federations or teams (depending on how the deal is structured)start paying developmental fees for all the Canadian and American players who play for European hockey teams? Canada and the USA minor hockey associations developed them yet European teams and leagues are getting the benefit of their talent without paying anything.
It is foolish to expect compensation when you don't have players under contract.

The NHL is only agreeing to pay "developmental fees" to European federations as long as said federations allow the NHL to sign already contracted players. As soon as the federation does not allow it anymore (see Russian hockey federation), the NHL stops paying "developmental fees". So it is in essence a transfer fee, not a "developmental fee": it only compensates the loss of contracted players.

I think it is pretty unusual for a European team to sign a player straight out of a NA minor hockey team, so there is nothing to compensate. In the event that it does happen, it would cost very little to buy him out anyway, seeing as they are essentially amateur players.

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05-13-2013, 06:42 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Darlotto99 View Post
NHL should not go to the Olympics its not worth interupting the NHL season for a worthless tournament. Revive the WC of Hockey for the off season and stop going to the Olympics.
Agreed. They should stop going at the Olympics once the Olympics in Russia are over. And have the World Cup being controled by the NHL with them getting all the revenues and control of the images.

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