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Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part 17: What does "bold" mean?

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05-16-2013, 09:18 AM
  #551
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Could the Oilers please sign Jagr? Finally? I think he could help.

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05-16-2013, 09:43 AM
  #552
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As long as we have 6 rings in charge of our team I feel I have no moral authority to call out the Feasters of the world.

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05-16-2013, 10:10 AM
  #553
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Looks like Krueger was holding back that power house Swiss all of those years.

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05-16-2013, 10:23 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Powder View Post
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what's a TDD deal?
TDD is trade deadline day. Sorry for the confusion.

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05-16-2013, 10:40 AM
  #555
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@Hockey_tracker 1h
Newsday reports #NYIslanders Mark Streit was seeking a three-year, $16 million deal prior to the Trade Deadline

5.3mil cap hit... Not sure if I touch this if I were the Oilers. Maybe for 2 years but for 3 I think it would bite them in the butt.

Advanced stats of top 5 Islanders D corsi leaders.

LUBOMIR VISNOVSKY - On ice Corsi (14.86)

THOMAS HICKEY - On ice Corsi (11.86)

MATT CARKNER - On ice Corsi (0.45)

BRIAN STRAIT - On ice Corsi (0.0)

MARK STREIT - On ice Corsi (-0.93)


Looking at advanced numbers, Streit was 5th in Corsi on his team and 5th in quality of opposing players.
But two people ahead of him in CORSIQOC played under 20 games (Martinek - 13gp, Strait - 19gp)
CORSIQOC is Average Corsi of opposing players, weighted by head-to-head ice time if anyone was wondering.
He also had the worse +/- on the team..

So the way I read into this is when everyone was healthy, Streit was essentially a #5 D man, power play specialist.

Is that someone who you want to be paying 5.3mil to? Especially when he is almost at the end of his career..

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Old
05-16-2013, 10:44 AM
  #556
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Maybe we misinterpreted MacTs bold quote and it's actually a "bald move". Watch as Greg Zanon, Getzlaf, Messier and Sundin sign with us this off season.

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05-16-2013, 11:04 AM
  #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OiledUp View Post
Maybe we misinterpreted MacTs bold quote and it's actually a "bald move". Watch as Greg Zanon, Getzlaf, Messier and Sundin sign with us this off season.
zanon has enough beard hair that all those guys would look like uncle jesse pre-michelle cutting his hair.

Or was it Stephanie?

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05-16-2013, 11:10 AM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
@Hockey_tracker 1h
Newsday reports #NYIslanders Mark Streit was seeking a three-year, $16 million deal prior to the Trade Deadline

5.3mil cap hit... Not sure if I touch this if I were the Oilers. Maybe for 2 years but for 3 I think it would bite them in the butt.

Advanced stats of top 5 Islanders D corsi leaders.

LUBOMIR VISNOVSKY - On ice Corsi (14.86)

THOMAS HICKEY - On ice Corsi (11.86)

MATT CARKNER - On ice Corsi (0.45)

BRIAN STRAIT - On ice Corsi (0.0)

MARK STREIT - On ice Corsi (-0.93)


Looking at advanced numbers, Streit was 5th in Corsi on his team and 5th in quality of opposing players.
But two people ahead of him in CORSIQOC played under 20 games (Martinek - 13gp, Strait - 19gp)
CORSIQOC is Average Corsi of opposing players, weighted by head-to-head ice time if anyone was wondering.
He also had the worse +/- on the team..

So the way I read into this is when everyone was healthy, Streit was essentially a #5 D man, power play specialist.

Is that someone who you want to be paying 5.3mil to? Especially when he is almost at the end of his career..
Thanks for this BowDangles....I think it confirms what people have seen with their eyes. Streit isn't that strong. Good offensively but lacks in other areas big time.

Very surprise so many in this board wanted him.

Same goes with Yandle.....not sure what his advanced stats say but I think he is basically a better skating Ryan Whitney. He is not strong defensively and can be overpowered in the defensive zone and seen him get caught making bad pinches in offensive zone

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Old
05-16-2013, 11:14 AM
  #559
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I don't put too much weight into them, but I'm curious how Grant Clitsome's advanced stats were.

I think he might be the best D option in UFA when you consider the money that Streit wants.

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05-16-2013, 11:18 AM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Thanks for this BowDangles....I think it confirms what people have seen with their eyes. Streit isn't that strong. Good offensively but lacks in other areas big time.

Very surprise so many in this board wanted him.

Same goes with Yandle.....not sure what his advanced stats say but I think he is basically a better skating Ryan Whitney. He is not strong defensively and can be overpowered in the defensive zone and seen him get caught making bad pinches in offensive zone
The difference with Yandle is he lead his team in Corsi with a 6.13 rating. But his CorsiQOC is 7th best on his team.

I am very new to this advanced numbers stuff but what I see with Yandle is he was sheltered quite a bit this year and kept away from top competition.

Also for those of you who do not know what Coris means, it is On-Ice Shot Differential (goals + saves + missed shots + blocks). This is expressed as a rate stat per 60 minutes.

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05-16-2013, 11:18 AM
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Thanks for this BowDangles....I think it confirms what people have seen with their eyes. Streit isn't that strong. Good offensively but lacks in other areas big time.

Very surprise so many in this board wanted him.

Same goes with Yandle.....not sure what his advanced stats say but I think he is basically a better skating Ryan Whitney. He is not strong defensively and can be overpowered in the defensive zone and seen him get caught making bad pinches in offensive zone
The biggest thing for me is we need 2 d-men. Another offensive guy and another defensive guy. We also need one of them to have some nasty habits in the corners and in front of the net.

I could just hope for a Weber and that fixes everything, but I can't be that picky.

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Old
05-16-2013, 11:21 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
I actually think TB and Calgary picks will be the wildcard in the first round and how they pick will affect the Oilers trade up/down situation.

TB could go Nicushikin or even Nurse; I can actually see Calgary go straight for Shinkaruk as well.
Heard on the radio (it was either Dreger or McKenzie, I can't remember which) that said Carolina is really high on Nurse and they likely won't pass on him.

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Old
05-16-2013, 11:23 AM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I don't put too much weight into them, but I'm curious how Grant Clitsome's advanced stats were.

I think he might be the best D option in UFA when you consider the money that Streit wants.
www.behindthenet.ca is a great website for advanced stats. It is what I have been referring too.

Clitsome has a Corsi of 0.35 (3rd best on team from D man playing more than 10 games)
and a corsi QOC of -0.329 (6th best on his team, so he did not play against tough competition)

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05-16-2013, 11:24 AM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
The difference with Yandle is he lead his team in Corsi with a 6.13 rating. But his CorsiQOC is 7th best on his team.

I am very new to this advanced numbers stuff but what I see with Yandle is he was sheltered quite a bit this year and kept away from top competition.

Also for those of you who do not know what Coris means, it is On-Ice Shot Differential (goals + saves + missed shots + blocks). This is expressed as a rate stat per 60 minutes.
Thanks for the info.

The other thing to consider is the Tippet system. Z. Michalek was considered a very attractive UFA a few years ago. PIT signed him and he struggled. He goes back to PHX and looks good again. Just very wary of players from there because bit sure if they are good or the system makes them look good.

Why would Edm not consider Tippet as head coach? It might actually be the best free agent pickup we could ask for...

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Old
05-16-2013, 11:25 AM
  #565
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Sorry keep in mind that all of these numbers are 5on5 numbers and do not include power play or penalty kill time.

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05-16-2013, 11:29 AM
  #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Thanks for the info.

The other thing to consider is the Tippet system. Z. Michalek was considered a very attractive UFA a few years ago. PIT signed him and he struggled. He goes back to PHX and looks good again. Just very wary of players from there because bit sure if they are good or the system makes them look good.

Why would Edm not consider Tippet as head coach? It might actually be the best free agent pickup we could ask for...
I agree, Yandle is sheltered under Tippet's system. I wish the Oilers were gunning for Tippet but from what I have heard Dallas is pushing hard for him.

If Tippet actually is leaving PHX and Edmonton doesn't offer him the moon I will be very upset. I know we would be going through coaches like butter but there has not been a candidate available like Tippet in those other years.

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Old
05-16-2013, 11:30 AM
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
The biggest thing for me is we need 2 d-men. Another offensive guy and another defensive guy. We also need one of them to have some nasty habits in the corners and in front of the net.

I could just hope for a Weber and that fixes everything, but I can't be that picky.
Yeah Weber would be perfect....

I think if I was GM I would try for potential top pairing guys that have struggled and see if I could get them on the cheap.

B. Smith from Det......I know I got ridiculed by one poster for suggesting this but I would definitely be kicking the tires to see if MPS + Omark (+ draft pick?) can get us Smith. Stauffer has said Det likes our Swedish kids.

I would also call up NJ and see if Larsson is available. Devils have some D prospects. They also have to forfeit their 1st next year so their could be a perfect storm here for Edm. See if Gagner + Hemsky (+) is of any interest

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Old
05-16-2013, 11:40 AM
  #568
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Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Yeah Weber would be perfect....

I think if I was GM I would try for potential top pairing guys that have struggled and see if I could get them on the cheap.

B. Smith from Det......I know I got ridiculed by one poster for suggesting this but I would definitely be kicking the tires to see if MPS + Omark (+ draft pick?) can get us Smith. Stauffer has said Det likes our Swedish kids.

I would also call up NJ and see if Larsson is available. Devils have some D prospects. They also have to forfeit their 1st next year so their could be a perfect storm here for Edm. See if Gagner + Hemsky (+) is of any interest
If Edmonton could pry Larsson out of NJD without giving up any of the kids I would be in heaven. There is talk of a Eberle-Larsson swap on the main boards, I would not like this deal..

I personally think that Edmonton should take a chance on Tyler Myers. He has definitely struggled in the last two years but his first two years he was a very good player.

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05-16-2013, 11:54 AM
  #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
@Hockey_tracker 1h
Newsday reports #NYIslanders Mark Streit was seeking a three-year, $16 million deal prior to the Trade Deadline

5.3mil cap hit... Not sure if I touch this if I were the Oilers. Maybe for 2 years but for 3 I think it would bite them in the butt.

Advanced stats of top 5 Islanders D corsi leaders.

LUBOMIR VISNOVSKY - On ice Corsi (14.86)

THOMAS HICKEY - On ice Corsi (11.86)

MATT CARKNER - On ice Corsi (0.45)

BRIAN STRAIT - On ice Corsi (0.0)

MARK STREIT - On ice Corsi (-0.93)


Looking at advanced numbers, Streit was 5th in Corsi on his team and 5th in quality of opposing players.
But two people ahead of him in CORSIQOC played under 20 games (Martinek - 13gp, Strait - 19gp)
CORSIQOC is Average Corsi of opposing players, weighted by head-to-head ice time if anyone was wondering.
He also had the worse +/- on the team..

So the way I read into this is when everyone was healthy, Streit was essentially a #5 D man, power play specialist.

Is that someone who you want to be paying 5.3mil to? Especially when he is almost at the end of his career..
Nice analysis BowD

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Old
05-16-2013, 11:58 AM
  #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
The difference with Yandle is he lead his team in Corsi with a 6.13 rating. But his CorsiQOC is 7th best on his team.

I am very new to this advanced numbers stuff but what I see with Yandle is he was sheltered quite a bit this year and kept away from top competition.

Also for those of you who do not know what Coris means, it is On-Ice Shot Differential (goals + saves + missed shots + blocks). This is expressed as a rate stat per 60 minutes.
I am also new to the advanced stuff as well but being a huge fan of baseball I became intrigued. I like it here because it can validate what we see with our eyes or make us look closer at someone who may be undervalued by traditional stats. Again...well done.

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05-16-2013, 12:58 PM
  #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
@Hockey_tracker 1h
Newsday reports #NYIslanders Mark Streit was seeking a three-year, $16 million deal prior to the Trade Deadline

5.3mil cap hit... Not sure if I touch this if I were the Oilers. Maybe for 2 years but for 3 I think it would bite them in the butt.

Advanced stats of top 5 Islanders D corsi leaders.

LUBOMIR VISNOVSKY - On ice Corsi (14.86)

THOMAS HICKEY - On ice Corsi (11.86)

MATT CARKNER - On ice Corsi (0.45)

BRIAN STRAIT - On ice Corsi (0.0)

MARK STREIT - On ice Corsi (-0.93)


Looking at advanced numbers, Streit was 5th in Corsi on his team and 5th in quality of opposing players.
But two people ahead of him in CORSIQOC played under 20 games (Martinek - 13gp, Strait - 19gp)
CORSIQOC is Average Corsi of opposing players, weighted by head-to-head ice time if anyone was wondering.
He also had the worse +/- on the team..

So the way I read into this is when everyone was healthy, Streit was essentially a #5 D man, power play specialist.

Is that someone who you want to be paying 5.3mil to? Especially when he is almost at the end of his career..

Well said. I've been baffle for a while now how various posters on here think it is a good idea to sign this guy and then slot him in on the top pairing with Jultz. That tandem will get shredded. We need two solid top four dmen. Jultz needs to play the role for the oilers that streit did for the islanders last year(third pairing, pp specialist) at least until he can shore up his defensive game. Right now I see them as having two 4/5 guys a bunch of 6/7 guys and a kid with promise. I'd be happy if they could add a couple Steve Staios clones to the roster at this point.

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Old
05-16-2013, 01:12 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
Well said. I've been baffle for a while now how various posters on here think it is a good idea to sign this guy and then slot him in on the top pairing with Jultz. That tandem will get shredded. We need two solid top four dmen. Jultz needs to play the role for the oilers that streit did for the islanders last year(third pairing, pp specialist) at least until he can shore up his defensive game. Right now I see them as having two 4/5 guys a bunch of 6/7 guys and a kid with promise. I'd be happy if they could add a couple Steve Staios clones to the roster at this point.
So looking at that "metric" it tells me Travis Hammonic is pretty awful as a "corsi" hockey player.

Would you, or anyone, trade for him and do you think it would make the team better right now?

Because I sure as **** do.

There is some value in Corsi, but it is FAR from the whole story on hockey or on players. See Corey Potter's Corsi and it should become clear.

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05-16-2013, 01:12 PM
  #573
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Nice analysis BowD
Not really, See Travis Hammonic.

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05-16-2013, 01:29 PM
  #574
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So looking at that "metric" it tells me Travis Hammonic is pretty awful as a "corsi" hockey player.

Would you, or anyone, trade for him and do you think it would make the team better right now?

Because I sure as **** do.

There is some value in Corsi, but it is FAR from the whole story on hockey or on players. See Corey Potter's Corsi and it should become clear.
I was commenting on his post as a whole more then just his reference to the corsi numbers. Clearly you need to take more into account then one stat. He also mention he was facing weak competion, had a team worst plus minus, was seeking a ridiculous contract and right at the end of his career. I took it as my opportunity to hack on everyone who seems to think this guy is our answer to a #1 dman which he clearly isn't.

Yes I think Hamonic would be a good addition. He definitely has the potential to be better then my Steve Staios clone expectations. Do I think the oilers have a chance in hell of getting him? Sadly no.

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05-16-2013, 01:32 PM
  #575
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Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Thanks for this BowDangles....I think it confirms what people have seen with their eyes. Streit isn't that strong. Good offensively but lacks in other areas big time.

Very surprise so many in this board wanted him.

Same goes with Yandle.....not sure what his advanced stats say but I think he is basically a better skating Ryan Whitney. He is not strong defensively and can be overpowered in the defensive zone and seen him get caught making bad pinches in offensive zone
Of course if you look at all of the Islanders defensemen one of the worst in terms on on ice corsi is Travis Hamonic. Given this, if Corsi tells the story, why is it that after Tavares he is probably the most untouchable Islander, and is widely viewed as one of the best yound defensemen in the NHL.

Hamonic and MacDonald played together almost exclusivley as the Islanders top pair 748 of the 858 ES minutes Hamonic played this year were with MacDonald. (MacDonald was also poor in on ice Corsi).

After that the Islander's pairing were a dog's breakfast, especially for Streit. He played 829 minutes at ES and his most frequent partner was Brian Strait at 189 minutes. Strait has all of 31 NHL games under his belt and both are LHD. He also played with Radel Martinek (161), Matt Carkner (151), Joe Finley (123), Lubo (61), Hickey (58), Hamonic (53) and MacDonald (37).

Bottomline, I would not read much into that argument.

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