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Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part 17: What does "bold" mean?

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Old
05-21-2013, 01:31 AM
  #851
JoeCool16
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Because a lot of non Oilers fans seem to think that we can't greatly improve the team without dealing one of the big 5
He's actually showing up in a lot of Oilers fan-started proposals in the proposal forum. That's probably the reason why.

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05-21-2013, 01:58 AM
  #852
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Hemsky as a 3RW wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if there was a 4th line in place that could play 10-13 ES minutes every night. He's still a useful PP player, and could easily produce versus tertiary shutdown matchups.
What would you pay him, what would he play for? I would prefer to part ways with him, he is part of the cultural change that needs to take place. I know you are a fan of his, as your name was Hemsky83, and he had his moments but we should let him go. Wish we could send Smyth and Horcoff with him too.

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05-21-2013, 03:05 AM
  #853
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Originally Posted by oilers1084 View Post
Why are a lot of people on HF assuming Eberle is available?
Because there are a lot of really foolish people on hf Eberle since joing the NHL is 43 in production last 2 seasons 19th overall in Production and is still raw .
http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seaso...ers-stats.html
http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seaso...ers-stats.html
He and Tavares and Stamkos are the 3 youngest in the top 20 last 2 seasons all 1990 born players the rest are all much Older yet some fans want to move him unreal.

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05-21-2013, 03:10 AM
  #854
Bryanbryoil
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Originally Posted by JoeCool16 View Post
He's actually showing up in a lot of Oilers fan-started proposals in the proposal forum. That's probably the reason why.
Yeah that's not too bright on their part IMO. He is basically the glue that holds everything together here. Grew up an Oilers fan, great friends with Hall and RNH, and he has some of the best hands in the game. Apparently because he didn't replicate last seasons stats this year partially due to a finger injury and because RNH didn't either in spite of playing with a bum shoulder they are both trade fodder to some of our fans. There are 5 players on this team that shouldn't be moved or at least shopped, some just seem to think that Gagner is the 5th and not Eberle and IMO it boggles the mind.

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05-21-2013, 03:15 AM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
There is a big risk with Stalberg, by the way.

He was sheltered hard by Quenneville this season, and Edmonton probably needs more of a two-way forward.
I don't want Stalberg, I want Bickell. He fits more of what we are looking for IMO.

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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Hemsky as a 3RW wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if there was a 4th line in place that could play 10-13 ES minutes every night. He's still a useful PP player, and could easily produce versus tertiary shutdown matchups.
I'd sooner get some value out of him in trade before he gets hurt again and walks for nothing. I'm not saying that the guy is useless, just that his value would be much greater to a Phoenix or Nashville than it is here. Ideally a team with an abundance of toughness and a lack of finesse comes calling and we can help each other out.

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05-21-2013, 04:16 AM
  #856
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Originally Posted by oilers1084 View Post
Why are a lot of people on HF assuming Eberle is available?
All the trade proposals on the trade board with Eberle in them are embarrassing to be honest.

Eberle is not on the table unless like Tavares is demanding a trade out of Long Island for some weird reason.

I virtually guarantee the Oilers brass feels that way.

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05-21-2013, 04:24 AM
  #857
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On a side note, for all the crap Jagr takes ....

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1432611

How can you not love that.

We should've signed him last summer, he would've stabilized our scoring woes IMO.

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05-21-2013, 05:18 AM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
On a side note, for all the crap Jagr takes ....

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1432611

How can you not love that.

We should've signed him last summer, he would've stabilized our scoring woes IMO.
Who's been giving Jagr crap? I thought he was one of the most respected veterans in the league.

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05-21-2013, 05:47 AM
  #859
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The possibilities for line up changes are countless this summer and depend on who teams make available under the new cap.

Draft
At the draft, I think MacTavish drafts either Nurse or Monahan with the 7th overall pick.

Potential Line-up Changes:
I don't envy MacT with the task of addressing team needs; the reduced cap makes line-up adjustments tough. Here's my guess as to what bold might look like based solely on possible UFA acquisitions and buy-outs. It's a highly unpredictable trade market, so I'll ignore possible trade returns and focus on available UFAs.

Trades:
I'm guessing that MacT trades Hemsky 5M and N. Schultz 3.5 this summer. Who knows what they'll fetch during the cap adjustment period. Difficult to assess these players value to other teams.

Amnesty Buy-outs
Horcoff 5.5
Belanger 1.75

In addressing the forwards, I think that a solid third line and a fourth line of grinders that can be adjusted for toughness against certain teams.

Forwards
Hall 6 - RNH 3.77 - Eberle 6
Paajarvi 2 - Gagner 5 - Yakupov 3.77
Bickell 3 (UFA) - Gordon 2.4 (UFA) - Clarkson 3.6 (UFA)
Smyth 2.75 - Lander .8 - Brown .8
Hartikainen .8
McGratton .7 (UFA)
Forwards cost=41.39

Defense: Schultz needs a steady stay-at-home partner to compliment his offensive prowess.

Defense
Hainsey 4- J. Schultz 3.77
Smid 3.5 - Petry 1.75
Marincin .9 - Potter .8
[Klefbom 1.2] Peckham 1.1 - Fedun .9
Defense cost=16.72

It would be nice to upgrade in net, but can the Oilers afford to do so?
Goaltenders:
Dubnyk 3.5
Khabibulin 2
Other goaltending options:
Khudobin 2.5 (UFA)
Smith 2.5 (UFA)
Hackett 2 (RFA, costing a 2nd rd pick)
Goaltending cost=5.5-6

Total cost (Approx.)=63.61 to 64.21 (with rounded figures)
Available Cap=64.3

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05-21-2013, 08:16 AM
  #860
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If Monahan was off the board, and Lindholm was available, would the Oilers deal #7 to Phoenix for Brandon Gormley? Would Phoenix make that deal?

Gormley fits better into the present picture in Edmonton, and Lindholm is a potential top offensive center, something the Coyotes could surely use.

Thoughts?

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:16 AM
  #861
Jimmi Jenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
The possibilities for line up changes are countless this summer and depend on who teams make available under the new cap.

Draft
At the draft, I think MacTavish drafts either Nurse or Monahan with the 7th overall pick.

Potential Line-up Changes:
I don't envy MacT with the task of addressing team needs; the reduced cap makes line-up adjustments tough. Here's my guess as to what bold might look like based solely on possible UFA acquisitions and buy-outs. It's a highly unpredictable trade market, so I'll ignore possible trade returns and focus on available UFAs.

Trades:
I'm guessing that MacT trades Hemsky 5M and N. Schultz 3.5 this summer. Who knows what they'll fetch during the cap adjustment period. Difficult to assess these players value to other teams.

Amnesty Buy-outs
Horcoff 5.5
Belanger 1.75

In addressing the forwards, I think that a solid third line and a fourth line of grinders that can be adjusted for toughness against certain teams.

Forwards
Hall 6 - RNH 3.77 - Eberle 6
Paajarvi 2 - Gagner 5 - Yakupov 3.77
Bickell 3 (UFA) - Gordon 2.4 (UFA) - Clarkson 3.6 (UFA)
Smyth 2.75 - Lander .8 - Brown .8
Hartikainen .8
McGratton .7 (UFA)
Forwards cost=41.39

Defense: Schultz needs a steady stay-at-home partner to compliment his offensive prowess.

Defense
Hainsey 4- J. Schultz 3.77
Smid 3.5 - Petry 1.75
Marincin .9 - Potter .8
[Klefbom 1.2] Peckham 1.1 - Fedun .9
Defense cost=16.72

It would be nice to upgrade in net, but can the Oilers afford to do so?
Goaltenders:
Dubnyk 3.5
Khabibulin 2
Other goaltending options:
Khudobin 2.5 (UFA)
Smith 2.5 (UFA)
Hackett 2 (RFA, costing a 2nd rd pick)
Goaltending cost=5.5-6

Total cost (Approx.)=63.61 to 64.21 (with rounded figures)
Available Cap=64.3
Interesting, but VERY Rosy, those guys, the UFAs, likely come more expensive, and that defense is a lottery pick.

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:17 AM
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood Original View Post
If Monahan was off the board, and Lindholm was available, would the Oilers deal #7 to Phoenix for Brandon Gormley? Would Phoenix make that deal?

Gormley fits better into the present picture in Edmonton, and Lindholm is a potential top offensive center, something the Coyotes could surely use.

Thoughts?
I don't know, I'd rather get a more proven guy then Gormley for that pick, it's not an insignificant spot to pick in, imo.

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05-21-2013, 09:01 AM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
The hate for Hemsky here is terrible considering that without him, it just creates another hole. After Yak/RNH/Eberle/Hall/Gagner, we have nothing offensively. Paajarvi would be 6th and he is a 35 point scorer at best. Any of the five above have a bad year, and we're done (like how RNH had a bad year this year).
It's not hate for Hemsky as much as it's the realization that an injury prone now near .5 ppg one dimensional winger isn't needed here anymore and in all likelihood has very little trade value especially at that cap hit.

There is no hole created by his eventual departure. It was filled the day the Oilers drafted Yakupov. Now that Yakupov has a year under his belt, he seems ready for full time top 6 duty and i'm sure most here don't want to see Hemsky on the 3rd line so naturally, it's time to part ways for anything you can get at this point.

There's no point in assessing his value because the time for getting good value for him has long gone by now (one of Tambo's biggest failures) so, as sad as it is to say, getting rid of him is addition by subtraction at this point to not only free up salary but to open up a roster spot for a gritty 2 way player who can help the team.

A lot of this losing culture has to do with the leftover veterans from the previous generation. Horcoff, Hemsky, Smyth etc. and until these guys are removed from the organization, it's going to be tough to shake that losers mentality since these are the vets that the young players look to for support. Getting rid of Lowe would also be a huge boost but we all know that he has a lifetime contract with the Oilers.

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05-21-2013, 09:02 AM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
I don't know, I'd rather get a more proven guy then Gormley for that pick, it's not an insignificant spot to pick in, imo.
Though I agree, would still very much love to try to get Gormley out of there. Can't imagine he would be very cheap, but I really believe this kid will be a top pairing guy. He plays the game like Nik Lidstrom (no - not saying he will be one of the top dmen in the history of the game). Not overly physical, but great skater, great stick, knack for getting pucks on net...

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Old
05-21-2013, 09:18 AM
  #865
Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Though I agree, would still very much love to try to get Gormley out of there. Can't imagine he would be very cheap, but I really believe this kid will be a top pairing guy. He plays the game like Nik Lidstrom (no - not saying he will be one of the top dmen in the history of the game). Not overly physical, but great skater, great stick, knack for getting pucks on net...
What no Nik Lidstrom, then clearly a bust

Well then I would make a larger deal with the Yotes to that end (if they're willing)

To PHX: Gagner, Peckham and 7th overall

To Edm: Gormley, Hanzal, Korpikoski and 2nd round pick.

I think this is actually pretty fair and the Yotes improve their skill and should improve the PP.

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05-21-2013, 09:24 AM
  #866
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
What no Nik Lidstrom, then clearly a bust

Well then I would make a larger deal with the Yotes to that end (if they're willing)

To PHX: Gagner, Peckham and 7th overall

To Edm: Gormley, Hanzal, Korpikoski and 2nd round pick.

I think this is actually pretty fair and the Yotes improve their skill and should improve the PP.

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05-21-2013, 09:40 AM
  #867
Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Yeah, but you have the ax of all axes to grind on Gagner, so your perspective if hardly a balanced one.

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05-21-2013, 10:18 AM
  #868
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Yeah, but you have the ax of all axes to grind on Gagner, so your perspective if hardly a balanced one.
Lets review.....

Quote:
To PHX: Gagner, Peckham and 7th overall

To Edm: Gormley, Hanzal, Korpikoski and 2nd round pick.
Edmonton gets- The Coyotes best prospect, the best defensive center in the NHL signed to a sweet deal that is good for four more years, another everyday NHL player who is rfa, and a second round pick.

Phoenix gets- a 49pt/year defensive black hole and part time hockey pant zamboni Gagner, whose contract is up and will be looking for a raise coming off a career year, a fat, out of shape dman who played four games last year and has a history of concussion problems, and a 7th overall pick, where if you are lucky, you might find a player who is as good as the prospect you are sending the other way, albeit he will be 3yrs behind in development.

Sounds fair to me.

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05-21-2013, 10:24 AM
  #869
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Yeah that PHX deal is very lopsided in our favor.

Hanzal >> Gags
7th overall = Gormely
Korpikoski >>> Peckham
2nd rd pick >>>> nothing

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05-21-2013, 10:58 AM
  #870
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He's actually showing up in a lot of Oilers fan-started proposal in the proposal forum. That's probably the reason why.
No. It's because we understand that this team is 5 good players away from being a playoff team and 8 away from being a cup contender. It will take the sacrifice of at least one of the big 5 to do this

This was Tambo's downfall.. he couldn't part with any player that even had the potential to be good, even tho his team as a group was barely NHL calibre.

Too many Oilers fans are falling victim to the 'you never trade a player that good' paralysis. Columbus traded their franchise player for 3 good players and they got better. Have a seat an a smoke and ponder one for a bit.

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05-21-2013, 11:08 AM
  #871
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Because a lot of non Oilers fans seem to think that we can't greatly improve the team without dealing one of the big 5
Do we really have a lot of resources? Our 7th overall pick. They have indicated we are not going to move klefbom.

Marincin is a good asset. MPS perhaps. Hemksy is past the point of good value.

Gagner is the total mystery here. How much value would he have and if you move him you have a huge hole at 2nd line C.

If the Oilers are just going to rearrange the deck chairs on the bottom 6 and 4-6 Dmen we have resources. If they truly think they are going to get a difference maker top 6 forward and a really quality Dman they will have to anti up.

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05-21-2013, 11:12 AM
  #872
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How much value did Voracek and the 8th have? Enough to get a top line center.

Pretty sure we have the assets to be worth similar to Voracek and the 8th.

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05-21-2013, 11:21 AM
  #873
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I really think that Gagner can get a significant return. He looks bad defensively on a team that virtually has no defensive centres..
On a team who has a lot of two way forwards Gagner could be quite an asset. The best thing about Sam is no matter what night it is he plays at 110%. No body can argue his compete level, no other forward on our team that is his size is willing to fight people when things are not going well.
Hell even Horcoff won't even drop the mits.

I think Gagner still has some serious upside to his game, everyone talks about how Eberle is still raw....Sam is only six months older than him...

A lot of people have this image in their head that Gagner is in or close to his prime because he has been in the league for so long... you need to step back and realize that he is still a kid.

I agree that Edmonton could use an upgrade on him defensively for next season but I see Gagner being one of those players that we look back on in five to ten years saying "wow, I can't believe Edmonton traded Gagner for that..."

And with RNH not going to be ready to start the season, who plays #1C until he returns?


Last edited by BowDangles: 05-21-2013 at 11:30 AM.
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05-21-2013, 11:27 AM
  #874
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Do we really have a lot of resources? Our 7th overall pick. They have indicated we are not going to move klefbom.

Marincin is a good asset. MPS perhaps. Hemksy is past the point of good value.

Gagner is the total mystery here. How much value would he have and if you move him you have a huge hole at 2nd line C.

If the Oilers are just going to rearrange the deck chairs on the bottom 6 and 4-6 Dmen we have resources. If they truly think they are going to get a difference maker top 6 forward and a really quality Dman they will have to anti up.
Horcoff can bridge the #2C hole until our draft pick is ready.

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05-21-2013, 11:28 AM
  #875
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How much value did Voracek and the 8th have? Enough to get a top line center.

Pretty sure we have the assets to be worth similar to Voracek and the 8th.
Voracek, an 8th overall and a third for Jeff Carter.

Voracek at the time had 38, 50 and 46 point seasons and was still young with a lot of time to improve. I think his value at the time is similar to what Gagner's is right now with the new cap coming into play.

This is how I see it from Voracek's value at that time in respect to Oilers of now.

MPS/Hemsky < Vorcek
Gagner = Voracek

Our 7th is better that the 8th but when it gets down to it, there isn't much difference in value, only a late pick...

So I think for a #1C it would take something like Gagner, 7th overall and a 2nd/3rd. But that team would need to be willing to trade their 1st line centre like Philli was..

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