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Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part 17: What does "bold" mean?

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05-21-2013, 01:32 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
So you start a thread, lose your bet and won't go through with the wager that you proposed.

Nice to know.
I already paid my debt.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=62

Dont know about anyone else though.

Maybe you should go harass them?

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05-21-2013, 02:24 PM
  #902
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I already paid my debt.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=62

Dont know about anyone else though.

Maybe you should go harass them?
You know what a sh^t barometer is Randy? Measures the sh^t pressure in the air.

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05-21-2013, 02:42 PM
  #903
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Still say we should trade the 7th for Berglund. I mean when's the last time we had a center who could throw a hit like this.



If we don't end up moving the pick I really hope we take one of Monahan, or Pulock.

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05-21-2013, 02:44 PM
  #904
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Have seen every Hawks/Wings game so far.

Bickell has good wheels for a big man but I question if he's ever gonna be good enough to play 2nd line minutes.

He's a 2nd/3rd line tweener. I'd go max 2.5 million on him and you know some team is gonna go 3....so pass

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05-21-2013, 02:49 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
The possibilities for line up changes are countless this summer and depend on who teams make available under the new cap.

Draft
At the draft, I think MacTavish drafts either Nurse or Monahan with the 7th overall pick.

Potential Line-up Changes:
I don't envy MacT with the task of addressing team needs; the reduced cap makes line-up adjustments tough. Here's my guess as to what bold might look like based solely on possible UFA acquisitions and buy-outs. It's a highly unpredictable trade market, so I'll ignore possible trade returns and focus on available UFAs.

Trades:
I'm guessing that MacT trades Hemsky 5M and N. Schultz 3.5 this summer. Who knows what they'll fetch during the cap adjustment period. Difficult to assess these players value to other teams.

Amnesty Buy-outs
Horcoff 5.5
Belanger 1.75

In addressing the forwards, I think that a solid third line and a fourth line of grinders that can be adjusted for toughness against certain teams.

Forwards
Hall 6 - RNH 3.77 - Eberle 6
Paajarvi 2 - Gagner 5 - Yakupov 3.77
Bickell 3 (UFA) - Gordon 2.4 (UFA) - Clarkson 3.6 (UFA)
Smyth 2.75 - Lander .8 - Brown .8
Hartikainen .8
McGratton .7 (UFA)
Forwards cost=41.39

Defense: Schultz needs a steady stay-at-home partner to compliment his offensive prowess.

Defense
Hainsey 4- J. Schultz 3.77
Smid 3.5 - Petry 1.75
Marincin .9 - Potter .8
[Klefbom 1.2] Peckham 1.1 - Fedun .9
Defense cost=16.72

It would be nice to upgrade in net, but can the Oilers afford to do so?
Goaltenders:
Dubnyk 3.5
Khabibulin 2
Other goaltending options:
Khudobin 2.5 (UFA)
Smith 2.5 (UFA)
Hackett 2 (RFA, costing a 2nd rd pick)
Goaltending cost=5.5-6

Total cost (Approx.)=63.61 to 64.21 (with rounded figures)
Available Cap=64.3
Ron Hainsey at 4 million? Try 5 million. He's the best UFA d-man available and he's gonna get paid. Think Dennis Wideman. Think James Wisniewski. Falling cap or not, he's gonna get 5 million.

Also, only way Clarkson signs for less than 4 million is on a 7 year deal....and not a chance I give him 7 years.

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Old
05-21-2013, 02:54 PM
  #906
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Gormley for the 7th is interesting.

Coyotes have a ton of defensive depth. Rundblad's AHL numbers were sickening this year. There's no way they can't have on the big club next year.

However, the Coyotes need goal scoring. I think it's much more likely they use Gormley in a package or Yandle to land that top line goal scorer than trade for a top 10 pick....which they really don't need right now.

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05-21-2013, 02:55 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Ron Hainsey at 4 million? Try 5 million. He's the best UFA d-man available and he's gonna get paid. Think Dennis Wideman. Think James Wisniewski. Falling cap or not, he's gonna get 5 million.

Also, only way Clarkson signs for less than 4 million is on a 7 year deal....and not a chance I give him 7 years.
Hainsey doesn't bring the offense those guys did though. Although I wouldn't be shocked to see him get 5mil, it would be a mistake at 32 for some GM to give him 5mil over 3+ years.

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05-21-2013, 03:02 PM
  #908
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I usually don't see eye-to-eye with IATL but he's bang on with Gagner comments.

I'll take it a step further...with RNH's injury I really believe we're gonna see Arcobello in that 2nd line slot to start the season next year and I really don't see why he can't be better than Gagner.

He's tougher on the puck (no snowpants). I'm not sure how bad he is defensively but can it be worse than Gagner?

He also can't possibly be slower or worse in the faceoff dot than Gagner.

Only edges I'd give Sam are experience and stick handling.

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05-21-2013, 03:06 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Hainsey doesn't bring the offense those guys did though. Although I wouldn't be shocked to see him get 5mil, it would be a mistake at 32 for some GM to give him 5mil over 3+ years.
You're right however see Flyers, Philadelphia.

Already hearing they're ready to go 4 years x 5.25 million.

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05-21-2013, 03:06 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
I usually don't see eye-to-eye with IATL but he's bang on with Gagner comments.

I'll take it a step further...with RNH's injury I really believe we're gonna see Arcobello in that 2nd line slot to start the season next year and I really don't see why he can't be better than Gagner.

He's tougher on the puck (no snowpants). I'm not sure how bad he is defensively but can it be worse than Gagner?

He also can't possibly be slower or worse in the faceoff dot than Gagner.

Only edges I'd give Sam are experience and stick handling.
wow.

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Old
05-21-2013, 03:09 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
wow.
The lack of size in our top 6 is holding Arcobello back. If Gagner is asking for 4.75 million on a 5 year deal as has been out there via various reports (Rishaug, Stauffer), I'll trade him and look for a 2nd line C elsewhere.

Regardless of what other C comes back, you have to give Arcobello a shot in the 2-hole until RNH is fully healthy (mid to late November).

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05-21-2013, 03:15 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
I usually don't see eye-to-eye with IATL but he's bang on with Gagner comments.

I'll take it a step further...with RNH's injury I really believe we're gonna see Arcobello in that 2nd line slot to start the season next year and I really don't see why he can't be better than Gagner.

He's tougher on the puck (no snowpants). I'm not sure how bad he is defensively but can it be worse than Gagner?

He also can't possibly be slower or worse in the faceoff dot than Gagner.

Only edges I'd give Sam are experience and stick handling.

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Old
05-21-2013, 03:22 PM
  #913
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For the guys thinking we can get Weber, not happening.

I will maintain that Goligoski is a good target.

It's gonna be extremely hard to find a top 4 puck moving d-man without overpaying a ton. Goli can come here and won't have the burden of "oh hey, you're the guy we traded a 40 goal 24 year old for".

He doesn't log "tough minutes" but our backend has been a complete and utter fire drill since we traded Visnovsky and Grebeshkov. Whitney was alright at times and Schultz has shown major upside as a puck carrier but we don't have a true puck mover back there anymore.

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05-21-2013, 03:22 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
The lack of size in our top 6 is holding Arcobello back. If Gagner is asking for 4.75 million on a 5 year deal as has been out there via various reports (Rishaug, Stauffer), I'll trade him and look for a 2nd line C elsewhere.

Regardless of what other C comes back, you have to give Arcobello a shot in the 2-hole until RNH is fully healthy (mid to late November).
RNH is looking to be healthy to start the year and no I don't think they have to give it to Arco. If he was that good how come he wasn't here when RNH went down?

"If you look at where he is at today, I think there is a very good chance he'll be ready for opening night," said Valette. "If he's not ready to go, then we won't rush it, but he's already ahead of schedule and barring a setback it's looking good that he'll be ready to start the season."

http://oilersnation.com/2013/5/21/up...nugent-hopkins

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Old
05-21-2013, 03:35 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
RNH is looking to be healthy to start the year and no I don't think they have to give it to Arco. If he was that good how come he wasn't here when RNH went down?

"If you look at where he is at today, I think there is a very good chance he'll be ready for opening night," said Valette. "If he's not ready to go, then we won't rush it, but he's already ahead of schedule and barring a setback it's looking good that he'll be ready to start the season."

http://oilersnation.com/2013/5/21/up...nugent-hopkins
I am pretty sure that when Hall had his surgery they said he would be ready for opening day as well.. I really hope they don't rush RNH back until he is 100%.

The best thing for Edmonton would be to fill their blue line holes, get a few bottom six bangers and get a physical two way 2nd line centre, like Berglund, to start the season.

This way you can have Gagner on the top line and Berglund behind him until RNH gets back than you can move either Gagner or Berglund to the wing or one of them to 3C and have Horcoff play 4C. The more centres on this team the better.

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05-21-2013, 03:49 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Have seen every Hawks/Wings game so far.

Bickell has good wheels for a big man but I question if he's ever gonna be good enough to play 2nd line minutes.

He's a 2nd/3rd line tweener. I'd go max 2.5 million on him and you know some team is gonna go 3....so pass
Then you buyout Horcoff/Smyth and give him 3. You'd still have tons left over to spend 2 - 3 million on the other 2 3rd line spots.

3 million a year isn't too much to pay for a hulking player who can slide into a 2nd line role at times.

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05-21-2013, 04:25 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Gagner GAON/60... 3.24
Horcoff GAON/60... 1.85

Gagner GFON/60... 2.71
Horcoff GFON/60... 3.19

Last 5 years Gagner has had more goals (19 more), more assists (28 more), more points (47 more), better plus minus (by 11) than Horcoff while having less over all time on ice (381 less minutes) and less pp time.

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05-21-2013, 04:26 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Last 5 years Gagner has had more goals (19 more), more assists (28 more), more points (47 more), better plus minus (by 11) than Horcoff while having less over all time on ice (381 less minutes) and less pp time.
The last five years are definitely more relevant than last year.

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05-21-2013, 04:28 PM
  #919
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Then you buyout Horcoff/Smyth and give him 3. You'd still have tons left over to spend 2 - 3 million on the other 2 3rd line spots.

3 million a year isn't too much to pay for a hulking player who can slide into a 2nd line role at times.
You buy Horcoff out next year, not this.

As much as people hate Horcoff, he eats minutes and is still effective on the penalty kill. Unless you want Belanger on the 3rd line or to rush Lander....we need Horc for another year.

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05-21-2013, 04:28 PM
  #920
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You're right however see Flyers, Philadelphia.

Already hearing they're ready to go 4 years x 5.25 million.
Where are you hearing this from?

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05-21-2013, 04:34 PM
  #921
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Where are you hearing this from?
Get out of here Philli fan! We can't be making up random facts and rumours if you guys are coming in here to debunk them!

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05-21-2013, 04:38 PM
  #922
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The lack of size in our top 6 is holding Arcobello back. If Gagner is asking for4.75 million on a 5 year deal as has been out there via various reports (Rishaug, Stauffer), I'll trade him and look for a 2nd line C elsewhere.

Regardless of what other C comes back, you have to give Arcobello a shot in the 2-hole until RNH is fully healthy (mid to late November).
Fun fact, this money is no surprise, especially when it comes to 2nd line players.

Ask Toronto about Grabovski, Connolly and Bozak eventually.
Ask Winnipeg about Jokinen

Gagner is still a younger guy, so I wouldn't have a problem with that deal, although I'd obviously prefer 3.5-4M per season

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Old
05-21-2013, 04:41 PM
  #923
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A lot of this losing culture has to do with the leftover veterans from the previous generation. Horcoff, Hemsky, Smyth etc. and until these guys are removed from the organization, it's going to be tough to shake that losers mentality since these are the vets that the young players look to for support. Getting rid of Lowe would also be a huge boost but we all know that he has a lifetime contract with the Oilers.

No. I know its popular to blame the veterans for everything, but the losing culture has nothing to do with the veterans.

The losing culture is around because... gasp! The Oilers are losing. Why did the Oilers lose? Because the Oilers GM and management continue to ice substandard teams.

You really think that replacing Horcoff with Lander, Hemsky with... say Andy Macdonald and Smyth with Bryan Bickell, would instantly change the Oilers "culture"?

Balderdash.

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05-21-2013, 04:44 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
I usually don't see eye-to-eye with IATL but he's bang on with Gagner comments.

I'll take it a step further...with RNH's injury I really believe we're gonna see Arcobello in that 2nd line slot to start the season next year and I really don't see why he can't be better than Gagner.

He's tougher on the puck (no snowpants). I'm not sure how bad he is defensively but can it be worse than Gagner?

He also can't possibly be slower or worse in the faceoff dot than Gagner.

Only edges I'd give Sam are experience and stick handling.
Did you not watch the games Arcobello played up here last year? He looked totally out of place.

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05-21-2013, 04:45 PM
  #925
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Voracek, an 8th overall and a third for Jeff Carter.

Voracek at the time had 38, 50 and 46 point seasons and was still young with a lot of time to improve. I think his value at the time is similar to what Gagner's is right now with the new cap coming into play.

This is how I see it from Voracek's value at that time in respect to Oilers of now.

MPS/Hemsky < Vorcek
Gagner = Voracek

Our 7th is better that the 8th but when it gets down to it, there isn't much difference in value, only a late pick...

So I think for a #1C it would take something like Gagner, 7th overall and a 2nd/3rd. But that team would need to be willing to trade their 1st line centre like Philli was..
That is the hard part, finding a team that is willing to trade a centreman or a top pairing dmen. They are hard to come by.

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