HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

The Martin St.Louis Sweepstakes

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-09-2005, 06:05 PM
  #1
Mat
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Magnetomountaineer
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 2,054
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Mat Send a message via MSN to Mat
The Martin St.Louis Sweepstakes

as of last season he was unsigned and was an RFA in 2004-2005
but what people seem to overlook is that he will be 30 years of age for the 2005-2006 (?) season. this would make him an UFA, would it not? and if not, would it be reasonable to assume teams would be interested in gunning for him?

Mat is offline  
Old
05-09-2005, 06:12 PM
  #2
Deebo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,150
vCash: 500
under the old system it was 31 or over are UFA

who knows what it will be if they reach a new CBA

Deebo is offline  
Old
05-09-2005, 06:22 PM
  #3
RoyIsALegend*
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,815
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
but what people seem to overlook is that he will be 30 years of age for the 2005-2006 (?) season. this would make him an UFA, would it not?
It would not.

RoyIsALegend* is offline  
Old
05-09-2005, 08:08 PM
  #4
Mat
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Magnetomountaineer
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 2,054
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Mat Send a message via MSN to Mat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebo
under the old system it was 31 or over are UFA

who knows what it will be if they reach a new CBA

DOH


still, under the new cba it could be assumed that it will be lower than 31, which by default makes him a ufa (in theory)

Mat is offline  
Old
05-09-2005, 08:58 PM
  #5
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 35,399
vCash: 500
We won't ever see hockey again if that's what you're thinking. All current contracts will be played out and paid, and the new free agency rules will be applied subsequently.

__________________
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Legionnaire is offline  
Old
05-11-2005, 01:20 AM
  #6
Yammer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Republic of East Van
Posts: 2,256
vCash: 500
Well there is the Eric Perrin factor. He might want to stay to play with his equally jockey-sized college linemate/pal.

Yammer is offline  
Old
05-11-2005, 06:48 AM
  #7
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,847
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
We won't ever see hockey again if that's what you're thinking. All current contracts will be played out and paid, and the new free agency rules will be applied subsequently.
Martin St. Louis does not have a curretn contract. He was in his contract year when he won the Cup, and his contract ran out July 1, 2004 -- before the CBA expiration. He entered the lockout without a contract; that made him an RFA at the time.

I haven't seen any proposed CBA that has a UFA age any higher than 30, and some with numbers in the 28 range. Now it's hard to say what will happen, but this is a valid question. St. Louis will be 30 years old on June 18th. He could be one of many players who become UFAs under the new CBA. Personally, I think that's rather frightening, but there you are. It's a distinct possibility.

Drake1588 is offline  
Old
05-11-2005, 07:10 AM
  #8
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
Martin St. Louis does not have a curretn contract. He was in his contract year when he won the Cup, and his contract ran out July 1, 2004 -- before the CBA expiration. He entered the lockout without a contract; that made him an RFA at the time.

I haven't seen any proposed CBA that has a UFA age any higher than 30, and some with numbers in the 28 range. Now it's hard to say what will happen, but this is a valid question. St. Louis will be 30 years old on June 18th. He could be one of many players who become UFAs under the new CBA. Personally, I think that's rather frightening, but there you are. It's a distinct possibility.
his birthdate is also interesting.

If we're taking some structure from the last CBA, qualifying offers need to be out there by June 30th. So any b-day's before June 30th, would qualify him as a UFA, if the UFA age is brought down to 30. Any players who are turning 30 after June 30th though would be safe (unless the UFA age is brought down to 29 or lower).

I think that St. Louis will hit UFA status. And it won't be pretty for the Lightning as both he and Khabibulin could hit UFA status once the CBA is negotiated.

I dont' see him moving though. I think he'll re-sign in TBay. He's been vocal about how much he's appreciated the fact that TBay gave him a chance to establish an NHL career... I don't see him being the type that would jump ship now for more money... and TBay should have the money needed to keep him (and Khabibulin for that matter).

NFITO is offline  
Old
05-11-2005, 08:33 AM
  #9
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,847
vCash: 500
I tend to agree. He likely knows that it's a good deal for him in TB... but UFA instead of RFA status will undoubtedly translate to greater leverage in negotiations. He was pulling down something in the area of $1.5M, I believe. It's hard to say exactly what he'd make under an as yet unresolved financial situation, but in the old system I could have seen him wrangle $4-5M/yr fairly easily, as a UFA, given his performance. What does the future hold for him? Will one good year, two years ago count for much in the eyes of GMs? The layoff could really hurt him in terms of a payday, potentially. So much is TBD for now.

Drake1588 is offline  
Old
05-11-2005, 09:20 AM
  #10
OlliMackBjugStud
Registered User
 
OlliMackBjugStud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO

I think that St. Louis will hit UFA status. And it won't be pretty for the Lightning as both he and Khabibulin could hit UFA status once the CBA is negotiated.
thank goodness the league shutdown for an entire year, to save teams like TBY of course. now they wont be forced to sign those two players and can let them leave for other markets.

phew, TBY was probably worried they might have to keep the league MVP and their #1 goalie. good thing they shut down the NHL to save TBY from this connundrum.

dr

OlliMackBjugStud is online now  
Old
05-11-2005, 02:39 PM
  #11
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
I tend to agree. He likely knows that it's a good deal for him in TB... but UFA instead of RFA status will undoubtedly translate to greater leverage in negotiations. He was pulling down something in the area of $1.5M, I believe. It's hard to say exactly what he'd make under an as yet unresolved financial situation, but in the old system I could have seen him wrangle $4-5M/yr fairly easily, as a UFA, given his performance. What does the future hold for him? Will one good year, two years ago count for much in the eyes of GMs? The layoff could really hurt him in terms of a payday, potentially. So much is TBD for now.
$4-5mill/yr for him in the old system?? I think you need to double that.

The guy did win a Hart and Art Ross, along with a Cup... you dont' think that some team - in the old system - would have handed him out a 3-5 yr deal at $7mill + per year?

When you look at signings in the old CBA - from Holik, Turgeon, Guerin, Fedorov, etc... I could easily see St. Louis getting a mulityear offer of $7+mill/yr from a team.

in the new CBA system, I think he's closer to looking at $4-5mill - maybe a little lower with bonuses attached. But last season for him was more than just a good year, and I doubt you'll find many one-year wonders who have ever won a Hart and Art Ross in the same year, not to mention his excellent play in the playoffs helping the team win the cup.

NFITO is offline  
Old
05-11-2005, 02:55 PM
  #12
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,847
vCash: 500
True, and that could well have happened. I think I'd compare him to Theodore. One great year, Hart trophy, but not a lot of outstanding seasons before that. That translated to a multi-year deal at approximately $5M per for the Habs tender... but $7M would have been a possibility, to be sure. Theodore was a RFA and St. Louis, as a UFA under the old system, could have hit a home run. On the other hand, he's not so young, and he relies so much on his speed, as a small player. Not sure he would have reaped the kind of term we used to see. Hard to say, but he would have done well, that is for sure. Start at trebling his salary (to $4.5M/yr) and keep going from there, perhaps.

What he's worth today, I just don't know. If signed early, his contract will be one of those benchmarks that sets other salaries in line under the new financial landscape.

Drake1588 is offline  
Old
05-11-2005, 02:59 PM
  #13
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588

Now, I just don't know. His contract, if signed early, may be one of those benchmarks that sets other salaries in line under the new financial landscape.
true... it'll be interesting to see which players sitting out there will sign first. There are still a lot of quality guys that were already UFAs that haven't signed a deal yet (Kariya, Murray, Demitra, Palffy, etc), and then a bunch of new guys sure to hit the market.

I could see many of these guys waiting till the end to get the best contract, rather than signing early. I doubt many teams will jump out early with big deals for players.

NFITO is offline  
Old
05-11-2005, 03:06 PM
  #14
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,847
vCash: 500
The glut may be counterproductive from a player standpoint. A prominent theory goes that minimal supply of a player type jacks up value, while wider unrestricted free agency can have the effect of cutting individual player worth on the UFA market. It will be interesting to see whether a surplus of elite-level top-six players has that effect.

I don't expect that a capped CBA will usher in an era of substantially increased UFAs every year thereafter, but this first summer is likely going to be crazy.

Drake1588 is offline  
Old
05-12-2005, 06:55 PM
  #15
Sotnos
Registered User
 
Sotnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Not here
Posts: 10,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
$4-5mill/yr for him in the old system?? I think you need to double that.

The guy did win a Hart and Art Ross, along with a Cup... you dont' think that some team - in the old system - would have handed him out a 3-5 yr deal at $7mill + per year?
He was an RFA, as far as I know, so other teams wouldn't have been "handing him" anything.

We were all curious to see what kind of deal he'd get, god knows he was due a raise, but it seemed to me like both parties (team and player) thought it would be in their own best interest to wait and see what a new CBA would bring before doing a deal.

What's especially interesting is that his previous deal was either two or three years for about $250K/year, and when he got the 2 year, $2.5 mil contract, it was denounced by Larry Brooks as indicative of the terrible financial management of small market teams. "How dare they give him such a huge percentage increase...they must want the big league teams to foot the bill", etc.

Sotnos is offline  
Old
05-12-2005, 10:01 PM
  #16
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
He was an RFA, as far as I know, so other teams wouldn't have been "handing him" anything.

We were all curious to see what kind of deal he'd get, god knows he was due a raise, but it seemed to me like both parties (team and player) thought it would be in their own best interest to wait and see what a new CBA would bring before doing a deal.

What's especially interesting is that his previous deal was either two or three years for about $250K/year, and when he got the 2 year, $2.5 mil contract, it was denounced by Larry Brooks as indicative of the terrible financial management of small market teams. "How dare they give him such a huge percentage increase...they must want the big league teams to foot the bill", etc.
actually the assumption above was him signing as a UFA in the old CBA, vs signing as a UFA under a new CBA... so we were assuming that he'd get those offers as a UFA (just for sake of comparison to market value differences under the CBA).

NFITO is offline  
Old
05-14-2005, 05:50 AM
  #17
CRUNK JUICE
Registered User
 
CRUNK JUICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 1,139
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to CRUNK JUICE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yammer
Well there is the Eric Perrin factor. He might want to stay to play with his equally jockey-sized college linemate/pal.
I'd like to see him back in Tampa for that reason as well. Not only that, but they're the ones who gave him a shot to ressurrect his career and allowed him to become the player he is. Not oit looks like they're going to be just as good, if not better than last year? Plus, he's always struck me as a good guy with at least a modicum of loyalty.

But then, this is professional sports and money always seems to speak the loudest...

CRUNK JUICE is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:31 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.