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Subban or Karlsson

View Poll Results: rather have on your team?
Subban 64 22.78%
Karlsson 217 77.22%
Voters: 281. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-10-2013, 09:09 AM
  #26
NyQuil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Eller View Post
Yeah probably, they just had a head to head and I'm sure non homer Sens fans will agree that Subban was more dominant than Karlsson in that series, by a good amount.

Karlsson was great in game #1. Aside of that, woop woop, I thought Philips and Methot played better than him overall.
He outscored a Norris trophy nominee on half a leg.

I'll take it.

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05-10-2013, 09:14 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SenateReform View Post
Add this past series to a long list of Karlsson directly outperforming Subban.
Look, I don't mind people picking Karlsson over Subban, but this is just plain wrong. Karlsson was pretty bad against the Habs. Don't let the 6 points in 5 games fool you. Subban was the best player on the ice, according to both Habs and Sens fans, for most games.

People like to act like the gap between these two is so large that it's ridiculous just to compare them. I think it's not fair. Subban has been the best overall defenseman this season from the first game he played until his last, and still gets no respect despite being in contention for the Norris (and most definitely the runaway leader had he played all games).

Like Therrien would say, you have to respekt the player .

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05-10-2013, 09:18 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Look, I don't mind people picking Karlsson over Subban, but this is just plain wrong. Karlsson was pretty bad against the Habs. Don't let the 6 points in 5 games fool you. Subban was the best player on the ice, according to both Habs and Sens fans, for most games.

People like to act like the gap between these two is so large that it's ridiculous just to compare them. I think it's not fair. Subban has been the best overall defenseman this season from the first game he played until his last, and still gets no respect despite being in contention for the Norris (and most definitely the runaway leader had he played all games).

Like Therrien would say, you have to respekt the player .
Wouldn't it have been a complete disgrace if Subban had gotten outplayed by Karlsson this series though? He came back 6 weeks early from a serious injury. He was nowhere close to his usual self the games I watched.

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05-10-2013, 09:34 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
He outscored a Norris trophy nominee on half a leg.

I'll take it.
Big accomplishment right ? Habs scored 9 goals... Subban participated on 4 of them..

Sens scored 20 goals, Karlsson was on 6 of those goal.

I'll let you calculate it yourself.

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05-10-2013, 09:36 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Eller View Post
Big accomplishment right ? Habs scored 9 goals... Subban participated on 4 of them..

Sens scored 20 goals, Karlsson was on 6 of those goal.

I'll let you calculate it yourself.
Do you think that this season is the only thing one should look at when comparing these two?

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05-10-2013, 10:31 AM
  #31
NyQuil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Eller View Post
Big accomplishment right ? Habs scored 9 goals... Subban participated on 4 of them..

Sens scored 20 goals, Karlsson was on 6 of those goal.

I'll let you calculate it yourself.
Sure.

In Karlsson's Norris winning season:

78 points on 243 goals (32%)

In Subban's Norris nominated season:

38 points on 146 goals (26%).

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Old
05-10-2013, 10:39 AM
  #32
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Karlsson, not really close.

He had, what? One less even strength goal and two less even strength assists or something like that, despite missing over half the year with a sliced achilles.

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05-10-2013, 10:40 AM
  #33
Frank Drebin
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Karlsson, but the gap isn't as far as some would suggest.

Karlsson is the far superior offensive player. I see him as a consistent 60+ point dman while I think Subban will be more of the 40-50 point type of guy. Both have the ability to score 20+ goals a year.

That said, both are prone to defensive lapses (bonehead plays) but I honestly see Subban pulling away in the future in that aspect of the game, due to the difference in the size of their frames. Karlsson is just such a sleight guy, I don't think the comparisons to Lidstrom are fair because Nik is a very muscular guy, while Karlsson gets pushed around like a kid out there. I don't mean this in disrespect, just an honest observation.

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05-10-2013, 10:43 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post

He had, what? One less even strength goal and two less even strength assists or something like that, despite missing over half the year with a sliced achilles.
I'm not disagreeing with you that Karlsson is better but lets not use points scored as the main factor in determining which dman is better.

I'd like to think that both are more than just offensive dmen.

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05-10-2013, 10:57 AM
  #35
The Nose
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Originally Posted by KarmaPolice View Post
Karlsson, AINEC.

Already a Norris winner, and hasn't reached his potential yet. If he's Achilles tendon injury doesn't get in his way too much, he's going to be downright SCARY. A Lidstrom with better offensive ability--that's who he can be fairly soon.
So you're saying he could be the best defenseman ever?

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:04 AM
  #36
Fred Taylor
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Karlsson easily.

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05-10-2013, 11:05 AM
  #37
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Karlsson AINEC x 25, Subban is barely a 6th dman






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05-10-2013, 11:07 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Karlsson, but the gap isn't as far as some would suggest.

Karlsson is the far superior offensive player. I see him as a consistent 60+ point dman while I think Subban will be more of the 40-50 point type of guy. Both have the ability to score 20+ goals a year.

That said, both are prone to defensive lapses (bonehead plays) but I honestly see Subban pulling away in the future in that aspect of the game, due to the difference in the size of their frames. Karlsson is just such a sleight guy, I don't think the comparisons to Lidstrom are fair because Nik is a very muscular guy, while Karlsson gets pushed around like a kid out there. I don't mean this in disrespect, just an honest observation.
I can definitely agree with this one.

What sets Karlsson ahead for me is his maturity and his hockey IQ.

I don't think you can use this series as a comparison to these two players. One was 100%, the other was not, and that is quite simple to see.

Karlsson in this playoffs looked worse than Subban for the most part. But Karlsson didn't take bonehead penalties when his team was down, even with Karlsson's bad giveaways, he didn't lose focus, he was still offensive minded and found ways to help his team win. Subban when his team was down, really is why I would choose Karlsson 10 out of 10 times (at least right now).

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:51 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
So you're saying he could be the best defenseman ever?
Yes he could.

I've watched hockey my whole life (23 years) and the way Karlsson was playing at the start of the year was significantly better than any defenseman I have ever seen play.

It's a very scary thought that his injury may have permanently altered his career, because the way he is playing now is frankly pretty bad.

It's a long road to recovery and most experts have said he should recover 100%, but I really hope they are right.

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Old
05-10-2013, 12:07 PM
  #40
Kezia
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Karlsson AINEC.

Subban is just a bigger and physical MAB and hes a baby.

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Old
05-10-2013, 12:20 PM
  #41
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Karlsson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Eller View Post
Subban was better in their head to head... He was better this year also. But people like living in the past accomplishment.

Subban, EZ.
I'm telling you. Subban is not better defensively than Letang, Suter, Pietrangelo or Karlsson. Actually, his attempts to make big hits and his free flowing offensive style makes him defensively suspect.

The more you make him skate and handle the puck, the more he's gonna turn it over. And that what JJ Daigneault try to stop in him. And that's why in games 4 and 5, you did not see him running wildly on the ice, like he did in games 1 and 3.

I'm telling you plastering player =/= being good defensively. Good example, Phaneuf.

Side note: Karlsson was horrific in that serie and not even close to his Norris self. But he's injured.


Last edited by simplefan: 05-10-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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05-10-2013, 12:31 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
So you're saying he could be the best defenseman ever?
Lidstrom and Karlsson are really comparable.

That's what I call best DEFENSE-man
  • They have elite hockey I.Q
  • They are both exceptionnally good skating defensemen.
  • Pokecheck, Stickcheck really well
  • They angle off players really well
  • They have great positionning and cut off the passes really well
  • They have elite lateral mobility
  • They both control the ice
  • They have great shots
  • They have exceptional passing abilities

Karlsson is on his way to be really close to Lidstrom. And he is a little more dynamic offensively than Lids.

I'm saying that Karlsson is the next Scott Niedermayer

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05-10-2013, 01:46 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Wouldn't it have been a complete disgrace if Subban had gotten outplayed by Karlsson this series though? He came back 6 weeks early from a serious injury. He was nowhere close to his usual self the games I watched.
Most Sens fans claimed Karlsson at 75% was still much better than Subban at 110%.

So no, I don't think it would have been a complete disgrace, since a lot of people, save Habs fans, believed Karlsson would outplay him regardless. I think Subban has earned respect from Sens fans in that regard, too. Their hate for the guy probably grew a little more, but I think they acknowledge his talent now, something they didn't do before.

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Old
05-10-2013, 01:49 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplefan View Post
Lidstrom and Karlsson are really comparable.

That's what I call best DEFENSE-man
  • They have elite hockey I.Q
  • They are both exceptionnally good skating defensemen.
  • Pokecheck, Stickcheck really well
  • They angle off players really well
  • They have great positionning and cut off the passes really well
  • They have elite lateral mobility
  • They both control the ice
  • They have great shots
  • They have exceptional passing abilities

Karlsson is on his way to be really close to Lidstrom. And he is a little more dynamic offensively than Lids.

I'm saying that Karlsson is the next Scott Niedermayer
Lidstrom in his prime was just as good if not better offensively than Karlsson right now, will being equally good on the defensive side. You can list attributes all you one (some of which are really disputable), but Karlsson is still far away from what prime Lidstrom was. He may still be young, but he still has a long, long way to go before he's even comparable to Lidstrom.

Karlsson, as it stands, is a slightly improved Kris Letang.

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05-10-2013, 01:49 PM
  #45
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I would rather have the Norris Trophy winning, almost point per game player, guy with a great attitude, and playing at 70% and still being effective.

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Old
05-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #46
CRSeven
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We have this poll like once a week.

The answer is still Karlsson AINEC.

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Old
05-10-2013, 02:15 PM
  #47
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I'd rather have an injured Karlsson on my IR then a Healthy Subban... just hate that guys attitude.

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Old
05-10-2013, 02:15 PM
  #48
simplefan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Lidstrom in his prime was just as good if not better offensively than Karlsson right now, will being equally good on the defensive side. You can list attributes all you one (some of which are really disputable), but Karlsson is still far away from what prime Lidstrom was. He may still be young, but he still has a long, long way to go before he's even comparable to Lidstrom.

Karlsson, as it stands, is a slightly improved Kris Letang.
For that first claim, I beg to differ. Karlsson is more dynamic offensively than Lidstrom. They both had high impact on the offense but Karlsson adds not more offense than Lidstrom but more creativity. Both are elite on that front.

With the way Karlsson started 2013-14, he looked as if he would be a Lidstrom type defenseman. He just reached an whole other level of elite play, where Lidstrom was. He just looks like he follows his footsteps. For example at the start of his career, Lidstrom was a dynamic offensive force who had to learn how to play smarter defense. He was a lot like Karlsson.

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Old
05-10-2013, 03:10 PM
  #49
The Nose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplefan View Post
For that first claim, I beg to differ. Karlsson is more dynamic offensively than Lidstrom. They both had high impact on the offense but Karlsson adds not more offense than Lidstrom but more creativity. Both are elite on that front.

With the way Karlsson started 2013-14, he looked as if he would be a Lidstrom type defenseman. He just reached an whole other level of elite play, where Lidstrom was. He just looks like he follows his footsteps. For example at the start of his career, Lidstrom was a dynamic offensive force who had to learn how to play smarter defense. He was a lot like Karlsson.
Just because Karlsson is more "dynamic" offensively doesn't mean he's better offensively. And Lidstrom is one of, if not the best defensive defenseman ever. Karlsson is a special player, but he's got a long way to go to be in the same discussion as Lidstrom.

Anyways, I chose Karlsson over Subban.

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Old
05-10-2013, 03:12 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playasRus View Post
Subban in a few years will be very close to Karlsson in terms of team value.

Might not even take a few years. He's pretty damn good at everything he does. Not as magical offesnively as Karlsson, but wows you with his hits.
He also misses a lot of hits and gets caught out of position.

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