HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Whose the worse #1 overall pick?

View Poll Results: Whose the worse #1 overall pick?
Erik Johnson 94 50.81%
Marc-Andre Fleury 91 49.19%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-10-2013, 06:33 PM
  #26
tsujimoto74
Moderator
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 11,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerbomb View Post
He's struggled mightily in the playoffs the last two years while putting together good regular seasons. Obviously the playoffs are where it matters but, just the same, he helped deliver a Stanley Cup to his team. Any GM would burn a first round pick if it got them a championship, hence, Fleury can't be the worse of the two.
Fleury hasn't posted a playoff sv% over .900 since 2008-09, and has only put up a playoff sv% above .900 twice in his career (.933 and .908 in 2008 and 2009 ,respectively). The Pens might actually be a dynasty if they had a goalie who showed up for the post-season.

ETA: Also, the Pens missed out on a lot more high caliber players than St. Louis did, considering Fleury was from the 2003 draft.

tsujimoto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 06:45 PM
  #27
broad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,040
vCash: 500
I would much much rather have EJ on my team than Fleury.

There isn't a single team in the league that can say they have too many top 4 defensemen. Not a single team in the league wants an 1a goalie.

broad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 06:48 PM
  #28
hexy17
Registered User
 
hexy17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 232
vCash: 500
This shouldn't even be close...Fleury's a great goalie, Johnson's a bum.

hexy17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 07:58 PM
  #29
WildcatMapleLeafs28
Registered User
 
WildcatMapleLeafs28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,643
vCash: 500
Johnson and it shouldn't even be close.

WildcatMapleLeafs28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 08:39 PM
  #30
lboogie42*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,746
vCash: 500
johnson because at least we hear of fleury. whens the last time anyone heard any news of johnson?

lboogie42* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 09:04 PM
  #31
WarriorofTime
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,490
vCash: 500
What do Blues fans think of EJ? He gave them a pretty solid return in Shattenkirk + Stewart but obviously they'd rather have Toews.

WarriorofTime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 09:55 PM
  #32
PayItForward
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Fleury hasn't posted a playoff sv% over .900 since 2008-09, and has only put up a playoff sv% above .900 twice in his career (.933 and .908 in 2008 and 2009 ,respectively). The Pens might actually be a dynasty if they had a goalie who showed up for the post-season.

ETA: Also, the Pens missed out on a lot more high caliber players than St. Louis did, considering Fleury was from the 2003 draft.
The Blues missed out on getting a legit #1 center in Toews or Backstrom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
johnson because at least we hear of fleury. whens the last time anyone heard any news of johnson?
Well Johnson doesn't play for Pittsburgh, a perennial contender that has 2 of the best players in the world on it. He's also had injury problems. Plus, it's not like what people are hearing about Fleury right now is positive, it's about how terrible he's been in the post season lately.

PayItForward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 09:25 AM
  #33
tony d
RIP Hot Rod
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 42,255
vCash: 500
Erik Johnson.

__________________
tony d is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 10:17 AM
  #34
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,622
vCash: 500
The back o back Cups help Fleury win this easily here. With that said he has been brutal for 3 years now

Le Magnifique 66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:00 PM
  #35
Mc5RingsAndABeer
5-14-6-1
 
Mc5RingsAndABeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 13,433
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
MAF has a ring. Not him.
This is a horrendous argument.

I guess Ray Bourque was terrible until his 21st season

Mc5RingsAndABeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:23 PM
  #36
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 6,558
vCash: 500
the SC argument is usually horrible, but not in this case. the goalie position is the one with the biggest impact in hockey.

Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:27 PM
  #37
Ozamataz Buckshank
Registered User
 
Ozamataz Buckshank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,670
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human View Post
the SC argument is usually horrible, but not in this case. the goalie position is the one with the biggest impact in hockey.
yea that .908 save percentage really led the Pens to the cup.

Ozamataz Buckshank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:28 PM
  #38
Thallis
DO I LOOK ANGRY
 
Thallis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Behind Blue Eyes
Country: United States
Posts: 4,177
vCash: 499
Send a message via MSN to Thallis
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
What do Blues fans think of EJ? He gave them a pretty solid return in Shattenkirk + Stewart but obviously they'd rather have Toews.
I'm still very happy Colorado decided to gift us them, but the guys we missed out on are exactly what the team is currently missing.

Thallis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:30 PM
  #39
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 11,420
vCash: 500
I will never understand the "If you won a cup, you're a good player" argument.

Give me EJ every time. Fluery was a worse pick, especially consider who else was in that draft.

Top 6 Spaling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:31 PM
  #40
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 11,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexy17 View Post
This shouldn't even be close...Fleury's a great goalie, Johnson's a bum.
I'm honestly not sure which of those two things is less true.

Top 6 Spaling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:33 PM
  #41
AfroThunder396
Lou's Secret Sauce
 
AfroThunder396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 24,009
vCash: 835
At the time, EJ was the consensus #1 pick. Then his career got derailed by a golf cart and some Jaeger Bombs.

MAF has the Cup, but his career is in complete meltdown mode right now. EJ still has plenty of time to figure it out.

AfroThunder396 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:39 PM
  #42
PayItForward
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I will never understand the "If you won a cup, you're a good player" argument.

Give me EJ every time. Fluery was a worse pick, especially consider who else was in that draft.
Why do people keep saying this? St. Louis missed out on what is arguably their biggest need right now in a #1 center in Toews or Backstrom. I don't see how that's that much better.

PayItForward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:54 PM
  #43
tsujimoto74
Moderator
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 11,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
Why do people keep saying this? St. Louis missed out on what is arguably their biggest need right now in a #1 center in Toews or Backstrom. I don't see how that's that much better.
Maybe because they still got assets that actually help them rather than hinder them as a result of the EJ pick. While Fleury has been abysmal in the playoffs for several years now.

tsujimoto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:56 PM
  #44
smitty10
Registered User
 
smitty10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,308
vCash: 500
Fleury is a terrible goalie. EJ is a top 2 defenseman on many teams in the league.

smitty10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 03:03 PM
  #45
Ozamataz Buckshank
Registered User
 
Ozamataz Buckshank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,670
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Fleury is a terrible goalie. EJ is a top 2 defenseman on many teams in the league.
Terrible is unfair for Fleury. He's a league average starting goalie. He's just not living up to expectations of being the number 1 overall pick.

(note: I would take Johnson over Fleury no problem before you think I'm some kind of dirty MAF apologist)

Ozamataz Buckshank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 03:14 PM
  #46
Quares27
Registered User
 
Quares27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,762
vCash: 500
I'd say Fleury is a worse pick for a number of reasons

1. IMO taking a goalie at #1 in general is really stupid... very rarely are the best goalies taken early in the 1st round

2. It was probably the best draft ever. I wouldn't even call him a top 15 player from that draft yet he was taken first

3. I'd rather have Johnson on my team than Fleury

Quares27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 03:18 PM
  #47
adorno
%!&
 
adorno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Maybe because they still got assets that actually help them rather than hinder them as a result of the EJ pick. While Fleury has been abysmal in the playoffs for several years now.
It has hindered them but at the end of the day they DO have a cup. The Blues are set except for that one quality forward - Toews, Backstrom, Kessel, Giroux - could have had any of those. Pens have Crosby and Malkin so at the end of the day missing out on E.Staal/Getzlaf/Carter/Vanek etc doesn't seem as bad. You could make an argument that they could have drafted Suter/Weber but I don't think they needed a quality defender from the 2003 draft as much as the Blues needed a quality forward back in 2006. And what are they going to have to do to get one now? You draft that kind of talent or you trade big pieces whereas the Pens can just use Vokoun instead and they're alright (not great obviously, but better off than the Blues)

Like I said previously though, in a vacuum when you don't consider each team's respective (future) needs, MAF probably looks like the worse #1 pick

adorno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 04:23 PM
  #48
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Fleury is a terrible goalie. EJ is a top 2 defenseman on many teams in the league.
Average starting goalie.

And Johnson being a #2 on "many teams" is comparable to a guy like Jonathan Ericsson (I do believe I made this comparison in the offseason and people laughed at it, despite the significant validity).

If I had the top pick in the draft, and could have a starting goaltender or a #2 defenseman, I take the goalie. Every time. The only time picking a #2 defenseman is more valuable than a starting goaltender is if you have good depth in goalie prospects and poor depth on D. At which point, instead of making a poor draft pick you should balance out your prospect pool via trade (or use the excess prospects to bolster your roster).

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 04:52 PM
  #49
Trafalgar McLaw
Waive Dallas Eakins
 
Trafalgar McLaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,838
vCash: 500
Johnson is without a doubt the worse pick. I don't see how people call a guy who performed worse than Ladislav Smid this past season offensively can be a top pairing dman. Marc-Andre Fleury is inconsistent, but a #1 goalie nonetheless.

Trafalgar McLaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 04:54 PM
  #50
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 6,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KesselForSelke View Post
yea that .908 save percentage really led the Pens to the cup.
more than those under .900 that he put up after that one, which totally proves my point.

Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.