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06-19-2013, 10:42 AM
  #976
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Who is better under Bylsma as coach: Bennett or Iginla?

One plays extremely well but gets scratched regularly. The other is miscast in his role with the team and looks awful in so doing.

I don't think we can debate this without mentioning the coach because I am fairly CERTAIN that Iginla's issues with us were 75% coaching/system/playing style/position related. That number may even be higher.

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06-19-2013, 10:50 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Who is better under Bylsma as coach: Bennett or Iginla?

One plays extremely well but gets scratched regularly. The other is miscast in his role with the team and looks awful in so doing.

I don't think we can debate this without mentioning the coach because I am fairly CERTAIN that Iginla's issues with us were 75% coaching/system/playing style/position related. That number may even be higher.
Well, it is higher. It's every game where he didn't play RW or on the top PP.

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06-19-2013, 11:12 AM
  #978
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HFBoards.. the land where a rookie who was playing in the NCAA last season is a much better top-6 option than a perennial all-star with a steady track record of being one of the most consistent goalscorers in NHL history.

It certainly makes me head explode sometimes, haha. Not surprising though.
I do get what you are saying. But 5 vs 5 who was a bigger threat in the playoffs? Who won more battles on the boards? Who just flat out actually competed while one floated.

Iginla gives us a lethal shot on the PP. To me it's a pretty easy decision to have Iginla on one side, Malkin on the other with Martin distributing, to have the basis of a deadly PP. From what I saw, that's all he is bringing us a this stage of his career.
That is a good something, but is it worth 4M a year of cap?

I get the whole 500+ goals, HOF credentials, etc. I don't want a floater on this team (er another one anyway). I'm sorry I can't say it strong enough. The guy flat out either could not or would not compete/battle at a high level in the playoffs. I don't want to hear about the off wing crap, yes that plays into it. But losing 1vs1 battles on the boards every single time, being tissue paper strong on the puck. Not able to bury rebounds that are right there at his feet/stick. Those have nothing to do with being on the opposite wing. Especially the first 2.

Stick man NCAA college kid Bennett was harder to knock off the puck then Iginla, made better plays, created more chances and was 100x better defensively.

Maybe there is just no tread left on the tires?

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06-19-2013, 11:14 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Who is better under Bylsma as coach: Bennett or Iginla?

One plays extremely well but gets scratched regularly. The other is miscast in his role with the team and looks awful in so doing.

I don't think we can debate this without mentioning the coach because I am fairly CERTAIN that Iginla's issues with us were 75% coaching/system/playing style/position related. That number may even be higher.
Iginla is better because we know he can have a brutal season and still score 70 pts on a line with Sid or Geno. Bennett is young and may be good at some point, but he may also not be more than a 40 pt scorer in his future. To this point we have no idea what Beau Bennett will end up being.

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06-19-2013, 11:19 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Iginla is the better player.

But only largely because (stupidly) Bennett is still a relatively unknown commodity.

I feel like if he had gotten a consistent role in the top six all year, we would be much, much less wishy washy about it.
To this point Bennett has never shown he looked like a sure fire top 6 fwd in the NHL. He was Ok in college, and Ok in the minors. Neither spot did he look amazing however and we surely have not seen enough of him in the NHL to even have a true idea about his future.

On most of the better teams Bennett would still be in the minors and not have even been called up yet.

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06-19-2013, 11:32 AM
  #981
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Anyone wanting Iginla is nuts.

Watch the Final and tell me under what circumstances he'd be of use to any team.

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06-19-2013, 11:37 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Anyone wanting Iginla is nuts.

Watch the Final and tell me under what circumstances he'd be of use to any team.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Boston found him quite useful in slowing down Malkin and Neal. Does that count?

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06-19-2013, 11:39 AM
  #983
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Some people here are making Bylsma sound like he knows what he's doing by scratching Bennett.

Bennett has been terrific in the NHL. I don't care about how he got here. He's here now and he fits this team perfectly, fits out two superstars perfectly and does everything well.

It may be hard to believe a player has looked THAT good and still been scratched as often as he has, but that's what we're dealing with here.

As for Iggy, I love him as a player and wish him well but if Disco is back we need to part ways.

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06-19-2013, 12:30 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Letang fan 58 View Post
To this point Bennett has never shown he looked like a sure fire top 6 fwd in the NHL. He was Ok in college, and Ok in the minors. Neither spot did he look amazing however and we surely have not seen enough of him in the NHL to even have a true idea about his future.

On most of the better teams Bennett would still be in the minors and not have even been called up yet.
Not sure that's the case. Other teams have shown a willingness to trust their young talent.

And not sure about just "ok" in the AHL - Bombulie was of the opinion that he was an obviously NHL ready player early on this past season, much better than his point totals may have indicated.

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06-19-2013, 01:04 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Letang fan 58 View Post
Iginla is better because we know he can have a brutal season and still score 70 pts on a line with Sid or Geno.
Certainly no guarantee of that.

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06-20-2013, 02:40 AM
  #986
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It appears that the overall, prevailing sentiment here is one that has a pretty narrow-minded view of things based on a (all things considered) relatively small sample size and a lot of variables with Jarome Iginla. People are making hard & fast conclusions that "because Bylsma is the coach, that precludes Iggy from being a fit on the Pens" or he "would have to play RW on Crosby's line with Bennett on the LW for it to work", etc.

The truth is: we have ZERO idea what the plan is for the off-season. How do we know that the plan isn't to trade, say, Brooks Orpik for a guy like Alex Burmistrov or Kulemin or some other LWer who could fit on one of the top 3 lines and allow a Kunitz to stay with Crosby, and find another LW to play with Geno & Neal? How do we know that Jarome, with a full training camp and bit more time, couldn't make a seamless transition to the LW on whatever line? How do we know that, at this stage in his career, Jarome wouldn't be OK with taking a 3rd line role with Brandon Sutter and a guy like Bennett, Jeffrey, or a young winger we trade for. If Iggy was willing to take a 2-3 year deal at $4milion or less and play on a 3rd line/2nd PP unit role, would that not be an upgrade over Tyler Kennedy?

I'm playing Devil's advocate here, but there are so many other options or permutations that could occur that we cannot even fathom because we don't know what managements' plans and options are regarding player personnel moves. Orpik could get traded for futres and replaced by Despres full-time, saving us almost $3 million in cap space, and ditto for Kennedy and freeing up $2 million, and Glass freeing up $1.1. And this team has enough money that if they wanted to give Iginla a full season to see how he fits, they could sign him to a 2-3 year deal and then use an amnesty buyout on him next summer if it doesn't work out. That's what I would do for a perennial all-star who I believe still has gas left in the tank and who didn't happen to gel immediately, in a matter of 6-7 weeks.

People need to keep an open-mind to possibilities which may come about that we haven't even thought of, instead of speculating like it's fact what it will cost exactly to retain Dupuis, Iginla, Cooke, whoever. Just let things play out. First chip to fall was Malkin, and it fell right into place. And I happen to be with Darren Dreger in believing that Letang would sign here for an 8 year deal worth 6.5/year. Then it will be Dupuis...

Once we have our key pieces locked up, then we go down the line and see what's left. The collective failure to perform does not squarely fall on the shoulders of Jarome Iginla, but it does further open the possibility or justification to make a "tough" decision and trade a Brooks Orpik or Matt Niskanen before they become UFAs and we lose them for nothing.

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06-20-2013, 02:44 AM
  #987
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Even if Shero gave him the offer he was hoping for, I wouldn't be shocked if Iginla decided to test the market instead. The way Bylsma misused him, no one could fault him for wanting to leave.

The only crappy thing is that his time was wasted in a chance to win a cup in a situation where he might not have many playing years left as an effective top 6 player and Shero gave up 2 damn solid prospects and a 1st for him (in a deep as hell draft).

This team and it's management...good god.

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06-20-2013, 02:59 AM
  #988
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Why is it so quite around Iggy?
We need to make a decision: do we want him - or not?

If not, we really should be shipping his rghts, seeing Streit traded for a mid-round pick, Iginla could get the same.

But the longer we wait, the less the return will be.

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06-20-2013, 04:55 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by deakka View Post
Why is it so quite around Iggy?
We need to make a decision: do we want him - or not?

If not, we really should be shipping his rghts, seeing Streit traded for a mid-round pick, Iginla could get the same.

But the longer we wait, the less the return will be.
Yup I was just coming here to post that. Iggy to the Kings for a 2nd.

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06-20-2013, 05:17 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
It appears that the overall, prevailing sentiment here is one that has a pretty narrow-minded view of things based on a (all things considered) relatively small sample size and a lot of variables with Jarome Iginla. People are making hard & fast conclusions that "because Bylsma is the coach, that precludes Iggy from being a fit on the Pens" or he "would have to play RW on Crosby's line with Bennett on the LW for it to work", etc.

The truth is: we have ZERO idea what the plan is for the off-season. How do we know that the plan isn't to trade, say, Brooks Orpik for a guy like Alex Burmistrov or Kulemin or some other LWer who could fit on one of the top 3 lines and allow a Kunitz to stay with Crosby, and find another LW to play with Geno & Neal? How do we know that Jarome, with a full training camp and bit more time, couldn't make a seamless transition to the LW on whatever line? How do we know that, at this stage in his career, Jarome wouldn't be OK with taking a 3rd line role with Brandon Sutter and a guy like Bennett, Jeffrey, or a young winger we trade for. If Iggy was willing to take a 2-3 year deal at $4milion or less and play on a 3rd line/2nd PP unit role, would that not be an upgrade over Tyler Kennedy?

I'm playing Devil's advocate here, but there are so many other options or permutations that could occur that we cannot even fathom because we don't know what managements' plans and options are regarding player personnel moves. Orpik could get traded for futres and replaced by Despres full-time, saving us almost $3 million in cap space, and ditto for Kennedy and freeing up $2 million, and Glass freeing up $1.1. And this team has enough money that if they wanted to give Iginla a full season to see how he fits, they could sign him to a 2-3 year deal and then use an amnesty buyout on him next summer if it doesn't work out. That's what I would do for a perennial all-star who I believe still has gas left in the tank and who didn't happen to gel immediately, in a matter of 6-7 weeks.

People need to keep an open-mind to possibilities which may come about that we haven't even thought of, instead of speculating like it's fact what it will cost exactly to retain Dupuis, Iginla, Cooke, whoever. Just let things play out. First chip to fall was Malkin, and it fell right into place. And I happen to be with Darren Dreger in believing that Letang would sign here for an 8 year deal worth 6.5/year. Then it will be Dupuis...

Once we have our key pieces locked up, then we go down the line and see what's left. The collective failure to perform does not squarely fall on the shoulders of Jarome Iginla, but it does further open the possibility or justification to make a "tough" decision and trade a Brooks Orpik or Matt Niskanen before they become UFAs and we lose them for nothing.
Unless its possible that Iginla regains a lot of his strength and hard work, I don't want him here unless its for cheap enough to be worth the risk to find out. Because being misused isn't why he couldn't win a battle to save his life. It isn't why he couldn't go to the net. And it isn't why he can't skate. He has a great shot and solid enough passing. He's smart too. But when you can't win a race, you need to be able to win a battle. He couldn't do either and it had nothing to do with how long he was here. If we keep him, it needs to be for relatively cheap and we need to have a reason to believe he will be in better physical shape next season.

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06-20-2013, 06:38 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Letang fan 58 View Post
To this point Bennett has never shown he looked like a sure fire top 6 fwd in the NHL. He was Ok in college, and Ok in the minors. Neither spot did he look amazing however and we surely have not seen enough of him in the NHL to even have a true idea about his future.

On most of the better teams Bennett would still be in the minors and not have even been called up yet.
You're funny.

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06-20-2013, 07:24 AM
  #992
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I've actually watched Beau make plays that NHLers can't even make. That quick backhand chip floater that sprung 2 breakaways.... is not easy to do at the NHL level. You rarely see it.

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06-20-2013, 07:35 AM
  #993
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Well to be fair, Rob Schremp can do things 99.9% of NHL players can't, yet he's nowhere to be seen. But I think it's out of the question that BB is an NHL player and should be in our top 6 next season.

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06-20-2013, 07:45 AM
  #994
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I've actually watched Beau make plays that NHLers can't even make. That quick backhand chip floater that sprung 2 breakaways.... is not easy to do at the NHL level. You rarely see it.
can you imagine him if he goes off and works out with gary roberts this summer?

we haven't seen the ceiling yet with this kid

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06-20-2013, 07:55 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
It appears that the overall, prevailing sentiment here is one that has a pretty narrow-minded view of things based on a (all things considered) relatively small sample size and a lot of variables with Jarome Iginla. People are making hard & fast conclusions that "because Bylsma is the coach, that precludes Iggy from being a fit on the Pens" or he "would have to play RW on Crosby's line with Bennett on the LW for it to work", etc.

The truth is: we have ZERO idea what the plan is for the off-season. How do we know that the plan isn't to trade, say, Brooks Orpik for a guy like Alex Burmistrov or Kulemin or some other LWer who could fit on one of the top 3 lines and allow a Kunitz to stay with Crosby, and find another LW to play with Geno & Neal? How do we know that Jarome, with a full training camp and bit more time, couldn't make a seamless transition to the LW on whatever line? How do we know that, at this stage in his career, Jarome wouldn't be OK with taking a 3rd line role with Brandon Sutter and a guy like Bennett, Jeffrey, or a young winger we trade for. If Iggy was willing to take a 2-3 year deal at $4milion or less and play on a 3rd line/2nd PP unit role, would that not be an upgrade over Tyler Kennedy?

I'm playing Devil's advocate here, but there are so many other options or permutations that could occur that we cannot even fathom because we don't know what managements' plans and options are regarding player personnel moves. Orpik could get traded for futres and replaced by Despres full-time, saving us almost $3 million in cap space, and ditto for Kennedy and freeing up $2 million, and Glass freeing up $1.1. And this team has enough money that if they wanted to give Iginla a full season to see how he fits, they could sign him to a 2-3 year deal and then use an amnesty buyout on him next summer if it doesn't work out. That's what I would do for a perennial all-star who I believe still has gas left in the tank and who didn't happen to gel immediately, in a matter of 6-7 weeks.

People need to keep an open-mind to possibilities which may come about that we haven't even thought of, instead of speculating like it's fact what it will cost exactly to retain Dupuis, Iginla, Cooke, whoever. Just let things play out. First chip to fall was Malkin, and it fell right into place. And I happen to be with Darren Dreger in believing that Letang would sign here for an 8 year deal worth 6.5/year. Then it will be Dupuis...

Once we have our key pieces locked up, then we go down the line and see what's left. The collective failure to perform does not squarely fall on the shoulders of Jarome Iginla, but it does further open the possibility or justification to make a "tough" decision and trade a Brooks Orpik or Matt Niskanen before they become UFAs and we lose them for nothing.
Point taken jmelm. HOWEVER, management isn't keeping an open mind, so why should we in turn?

Bylsma's our coach. Fleury's our sieve. We're negotiating with Letang, Dupuis. You want Orpik dealt but do you really believe that's going to happen?

I certainly don't blame Iggy for our failures (hell, he wasn't around in 2010, 2011 and 2012) but at this point I've seen enough of Iggy on left wing to last a lifetime. I've seen enough of Iggy struggling to 'get to our game'. It's a terrible fit. A full training camp and more familiarity won't change Disco Dan's stubbornness. It isn't going to suddenly turn Iginla-Malkin-Neal into a good idea.

The things Jarome Iginla does VERY well aren't being used by this team. Why he even wants to stick around here I'll never understand.

Since the decision to give our moron of a head coach a contract extension, it's time to cut ties with No. 12. Hey, he wouldn't be the first great veteran player who didn't pan out here (John LeClair, anyone?). But no matter how hard you try to jam it in there, you can't fit a square peg in a round hole.

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Old
06-20-2013, 08:01 AM
  #996
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I agree VG. I think the kid has mega potential if he's allowed to shine. DB could kill his confidence with his idiotic coaching of rookies.

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06-20-2013, 08:01 AM
  #997
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We are nearing the limit. If this discussion wants to continue - we can make another thread. It's pretty much run it's course, though.

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