HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Offense vs Defense

View Poll Results: Which would win in a 7 game series
Offense 23 35.94%
Defense 37 57.81%
Too close to call 4 6.25%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-10-2013, 09:26 PM
  #1
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,330
vCash: 1675
Offense vs Defense

Team Offense

Kovalchuk-Stamkos-MSL
Vanek-Giroux-Ovechkin
Sedin-Sedin-Kessel
P. Kane-RNH-Semin

Karlsson-Letang
Yandle-Green
Campbell-Byfuglien


Team Defense

Eriksson-Datsyuk-Zetterberg
Kopitar-Toews-Hossa
M. Richards-Bergeron-Kesler
Landeskog-Backes-Callahan

Chara-Weber
Suter-Seabrook
Hamhuis-M. Staal


Assume goaltending is a wash. I basically took what I feel to be the stereotypical "one dimensional" players vs the players stereotypically known for their defensive/two-way game.

Which team would win in a 7-game series? Pure offense, or gritty, backchecking two-way play?

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 09:30 PM
  #2
lboogie42*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,746
vCash: 500
no elias or zetterberg on team defense?


i chose team offense becuase some of theose players are actually capable of playing defense. and they would just outscore every team anyway so its not like they would need much d.

lboogie42* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 09:33 PM
  #3
Izzy
Moderator
JuhaMetsolaForVezina
 
Izzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 55,845
vCash: 50
Depends on the goalies.

If both teams have bad goalies, I'll go with team defense. If both teams have good goalies, I'll go with team offense.

Izzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 09:57 PM
  #4
TychoFan
Registered User
 
TychoFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 817
vCash: 50
I like team Offense since I feel like every line would be good enough to get passed team defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy Mandelbaum View Post
Depends on the goalies.

If both teams have bad goalies, I'll go with team defense. If both teams have good goalies, I'll go with team offense.
So team defense would have the puck more often/more shots on goal according to this?

TychoFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2013, 10:00 PM
  #5
Izzy
Moderator
JuhaMetsolaForVezina
 
Izzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 55,845
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TychoFan View Post
I like team Offense since I feel like every line would be good enough to get passed team defense.



So team defense would have the puck more often/more shots on goal according to this?
No, good defense can make a bad goalie look good/do well as well as sneak a few lucky ones past the bad goalie. If the goalie is good, the defense team will have a hard time scoring.

Izzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 01:10 AM
  #6
Hammer Time
Registered User
 
Hammer Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,865
vCash: 500
Team defence wins because most of their players are also very good offensively (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Toews, Hossa, Kopitar). Weber and Chara actually are 1st and 4th in goals among defencemen since 2010-11. I tend to think Team Offence's players are more likely to make mistakes, which would be ruthlessly punished by Team Defence.

Hammer Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 01:14 AM
  #7
nik jr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Congo-Kinshasa
Posts: 10,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
Team defence wins because most of their players are also very good offensively (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Toews, Hossa, Kopitar). Weber and Chara actually are 1st and 4th in goals among defencemen since 2010-11. I tend to think Team Offence's players are more likely to make mistakes, which would be ruthlessly punished by Team Defence.
players of team defense also control possession a lot more than players of team offense.

team defense would have the puck more often, and they would obviously be a lot harder to score on.

team defense also would be a lot better at faceoffs, which would be important on special teams.

nik jr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:27 AM
  #8
Magix
Registered User
 
Magix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,509
vCash: 500
How are giroux, letang, and karlsson one dimensional? Also its weird that crosby/malkin aren't on team offense, since they are the best offensive players in the world and are not known for their defensive games.

And team defense should be called team two-way.

Magix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 02:31 AM
  #9
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,330
vCash: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by magix View Post
How are giroux, letang, and karlsson one dimensional? Also its weird that crosby/malkin aren't on team offense, since they are the best offensive players in the world and are not known for their defensive games.

And team defense should be called team two-way.
I felt Crosby and Malkin would make the teams completely unbalanced, seeing as they are the consensus 1/2 best players in the world, and there is no comparable two-way player(let alone 2) of similar calibre.

Your right that I technically should have called the 2nd team "two-way", but I wanted to keep it simple.

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 06:18 AM
  #10
NH57
Habs 4 Life
 
NH57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,699
vCash: 500
Why is Subban not on team offense? 38 points in 52 games, it's safe to say he should be on the list.

NH57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 09:38 AM
  #11
tony d
Follow your Nose
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,674
vCash: 500
Team offense for me.

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 10:00 AM
  #12
Love
Registered User
 
Love's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Team "Defense" also happens to be unreal at offence so I chose them.

Love is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 10:51 AM
  #13
Nyquist
Registered User
 
Nyquist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 5,174
vCash: 500
Team Defense. The difference offensively really isn't that great, while the difference defensively is huge.

Nyquist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 10:54 AM
  #14
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,012
vCash: 50
Team defense. If team offense hardly has the puck and is getting crushed every second they do, they'll wilt like usual

Teeder9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 10:55 AM
  #15
MAK19
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 14,578
vCash: 500
Karlsson is on the wrong team

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 10:59 AM
  #16
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,012
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Karlsson is on the wrong team
You mean the losing team right? It happens sometimes

Teeder9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 11:01 AM
  #17
MAK19
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 14,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
You mean the losing team right? It happens sometimes
No. The team with Karlsson would win. So in the OP, it would be ''Team Offense''.


That said, Karlsson should be on Team Defense.

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 11:06 AM
  #18
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,012
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
No. The team with Karlsson would win. So in the OP, it would be ''Team Offense''.


That said, Karlsson should be on Team Defense.
Why? If he's scoring 30 points a season no one cares who he is.

Teeder9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 11:14 AM
  #19
MAK19
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 14,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
Why? If he's scoring 30 points a season no one cares who he is.
His skill level and skating allow him to be dominant both offensively and defensively. If his skill level magically drops and he's only scoring 30 points a season, that also means his defense is much worse.




My original point was, Karlsson is miles ahead defensively compared to the other 5 D-men on Team Offense. He is more comparable to Team Defense's D.

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 11:27 AM
  #20
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,012
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
His skill level and skating allow him to be dominant both offensively and defensively. If his skill level magically drops and he's only scoring 30 points a season, that also means his defense is much worse.




My original point was, Karlsson is miles ahead defensively compared to the other 5 D-men on Team Offense. He is more comparable to Team Defense's D.
He's not though. Here's the thing. A fan sees a guy like Coffey, Green, Karlsson, and Subban and thinks bad defense. Well, there's a reason. In their own end they aren't very good compared to actual defensive defencemen. It's a tradeoff. Their offense is defense in a sense because of their ability to hold it in the offensive zone and to get it there once they have possession. Right now, I see no obvious difference between any of these players aside from some fans hitting extremes one way or the other.

Just to add, Campbell is the best on defense on that list

Teeder9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 12:01 PM
  #21
MAK19
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 14,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
He's not though. Here's the thing. A fan sees a guy like Coffey, Green, Karlsson, and Subban and thinks bad defense. Well, there's a reason. In their own end they aren't very good compared to actual defensive defencemen. It's a tradeoff. Their offense is defense in a sense because of their ability to hold it in the offensive zone and to get it there once they have possession. Right now, I see no obvious difference between any of these players aside from some fans hitting extremes one way or the other.

Just to add, Campbell is the best on defense on that list
Campbell was -22 in 48 games. That's ridiculously bad. He's probably one of the worst defensively.


Not saying Karlsson is on Chara's level defensively. What I'm saying is, if Karlsson is lined up against the Tavares, Giroux, Ovechkin, etc. of the world, there's a a good chance he'll win that matchup.

Lining up Yandle, Campbell, Green etc vs those guys is just asking for trouble.



Nik Lidstrom, Ray Bourque and Bobby Orr are guys who produced offensively without sacrificing defense. That's how Karlsson plays. Karlsson is not as good defensively as those 3, but as mentioned, on another level than his ''teammates'' in the OP.

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 12:06 PM
  #22
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,012
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Campbell was -22 in 48 games. That's ridiculously bad. He's probably one of the worst defensively.


Not saying Karlsson is on Chara's level defensively. What I'm saying is, if Karlsson is lined up against the Tavares, Giroux, Ovechkin, etc. of the world, there's a a good chance he'll win that matchup.

Lining up Yandle, Campbell, Green etc vs those guys is just asking for trouble.



Nik Lidstrom, Ray Bourque and Bobby Orr are guys who produced offensively without sacrificing defense. That's how Karlsson plays. Karlsson is not as good defensively as those 3, but as mentioned, on another level than his ''teammates'' in the OP.
The great +/- stat. Then you go on to mention 3 of the 4 greatest dmen of all time like he was anything like them. This is getting ludicrous.

Teeder9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 12:14 PM
  #23
MAK19
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 14,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
The great +/- stat. Then you go on to mention 3 of the 4 greatest dmen of all time like he was anything like them. This is getting ludicrous.
Campbell was the worst +/- player on the Panthers, while being one of the best offensive players. That's telling.

You could call it ludicrous if I was using +/- to say Campbell is the worst defensive player in the league - but I'm not doing that at all. Simply saying he is worse than the consensus #1 D in the world.

We're in the polls section. Make a poll, and you'll see everyone agrees that Karlsson > Campbell defensively.



Seeing your posts in the Karlsson Subban thread, you obviously don't know a thing about either player.



Karlsson plays like Orr, Bourque and Lidstrom. Not quite as good, but similar, and far from one-dimensional.


Get with the times man, your posts make me feel like we're back in in 2011-12

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 12:39 PM
  #24
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,012
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Campbell was the worst +/- player on the Panthers, while being one of the best offensive players. That's telling.

You could call it ludicrous if I was using +/- to say Campbell is the worst defensive player in the league - but I'm not doing that at all. Simply saying he is worse than the consensus #1 D in the world.

We're in the polls section. Make a poll, and you'll see everyone agrees that Karlsson > Campbell defensively.



Seeing your posts in the Karlsson Subban thread, you obviously don't know a thing about either player.



Karlsson plays like Orr, Bourque and Lidstrom. Not quite as good, but similar, and far from one-dimensional.


Get with the times man, your posts make me feel like we're back in in 2011-12
It isn't telling without context and you show none. Karlsson is average defensively while the three players you mentioned were exponentially better. The only thing they have in common is offensive numbers, and that's it. Your posts make me think you started watching hockey in 2011-12

Teeder9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2013, 09:00 PM
  #25
Hynh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,610
vCash: 500
Team Defence should be made of players like Smid and Gorges, ones with barely any offense to their game, not two way players. Team Two Way will win most of the time, followed by Team Offense and then Team Defense.

Hynh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.