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Old
05-14-2013, 11:47 AM
  #76
Ivan13
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Phaneuf is Scott Stevens without an ounce of hockey IQ. Pass.

EDIT:

Gardiner on the other hand...

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05-14-2013, 12:16 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
I don't want to trade Staz until we have ROR signed to an extension.
We can't afford to lose both.
But once ROR is re-signed, we can trade Staz or move him to wing.
I don't see why Stas can't be moved to wing or O'Reilly. Stas and O'Reilly can still center PP and/or PK.

O'reilly is now being tried as a winger with Duchene at the Worlds. Maybe there's something there.

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05-14-2013, 12:58 PM
  #78
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I don't see why Stas can't be moved to wing or O'Reilly. Stas and O'Reilly can still center PP and/or PK.

O'reilly is now being tried as a winger with Duchene at the Worlds. Maybe there's something there.
As others have pointed out, ROR is better at Center because of his puck-stripping abilities, face-offs, etc.

I'd like to keep both on the team, but I agree with others that we should stack the top 2 lines instead of trying to have 3 scoring lines. To do that, I think one of our 3 Centers needs to move to wing. Or get traded for a winger.

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05-14-2013, 01:01 PM
  #79
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Phaneuf is Scott Stevens without an ounce of hockey IQ. Pass.

EDIT:

Gardiner on the other hand...
He wishes he was Stevens without IQ.

Having said that he's still a solid number 2.

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Old
05-14-2013, 01:22 PM
  #80
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Phaneuf-EJ
Hejda-Jones
Wilson-Barrie

Siemens-Elliott in the AHL getting top minutes.

It's doable and I actually kinda like it. It allows us to tap the breaks and get Siemens and Elliott playing together while Duncan is learning the pro game. Could that familiarity help his transition and speed along his development?

My fear (as always with the 3 centers) is that we simply can't keep enough wingers healthy to keep all three rolling and honestly, it'll be tough with a salary cap to keep them all stocked with quality threats.

We really should have ROR extended and an olive branch waived prior to making any moves with Stastny though.

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05-14-2013, 01:33 PM
  #81
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Let's just say we move Stastny to LW, our lines could end up looking like this:

Stastny-Duchene-PAP
Landeskog-ROR-Downie
McGinn-Mitchell-Jones
McLeod-Malone-Bordy

I still see a big hole at the #3C position, and if we are going to really try to have a strong top 6 the #2RW position.

(This whole situation assumes Jones, Zanon, and SOB get bought out or traded to clear cap space)
Now, the #3C position can be found in UFA (IMO Gordon isn't the answer, but Matt Cullen for a couple years could be attractive or Bozak on a ~$4-4.5 deal), but I don't see the #2RW coming cheap enough. Clarkson would be around for ~$5m. Horton would be around for around the same. Dupuis would be a disaster. For argument say Clarkson are signed for $5m and Bozak for 4.5. Then you have this going forward.

Stastny (6.6)-Duchene (3.5)-PAP(4)
Landeskog (3.575)-ROR(5)-Clarkson (5)
McGinn (1.75)-Bozak (4.5)-Downie (2.65)
McLeod (1.15)-Mitchell (1.1)-Bordy (.75)
Olver (.6)
Palushaj (.6)

Barrie (.9)-EJ (3.75)
Hejda (3.25)-Jones (3.75)
Wilson (2.25)-Elliott (.9)
Hunwick (1.6)

Varly (2.83)
JSG (1.5)

Cap Hit ~61.505

That roster would be a lot better, and should compete for a playoff spot as a 6-8 seed. It just doesn't allow much flexibility to move forward with Duchene, McGinn, ROR, Stastny, Barrie, Elliott, Varly, and Downie all as free agents that will get raises or stay close to the same cap hit in Stastny's case. Now you could just sign Gordon instead of Bozak to that #3C role instead, but then the 3rd line is pretty weak at that point.

Basically what I am trying to say is that loading up on the top 6 creates another hole in the lineup that may exceed trying to just run 3 2nd lines.

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Old
05-14-2013, 01:35 PM
  #82
RobinDIF
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Sorry. But if we sign Clarkson at 5.0M I will puke. More than once.

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05-14-2013, 01:35 PM
  #83
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Actually, I feel the _exact opposite_ with Erik Johnson.

I feel he plays better with more minutes and added responsibility. I think his worst hockey is played when he's around 20 minutes and spending too much time on the bench dissecting his last shifts. Needs to get back out there on a consistent basis and that's when he's at his best.

To each their own, just found that surprising as I feel EJ is one of those exact opposite guys who thrive with more ice-time.
Agreed. Good two way guys thrive with more ice time, and the one's capable of playing dominant hockey from the blueline thrive when playing 25+ mins. This is when you see EJ beast mode come out, as he gets fully into the game and is in the zone. Then he's reacting rather than trying to think the game too much, which is not his best atribute.

The guys with holes in their game, and little to no actual offensive production like pretty much every other D on the team aside from maybe Hejda, have their weaknesses exposed with more and tougher minutes. They're the ones that need to be kept on a shorter leash minutes wise.

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05-14-2013, 01:37 PM
  #84
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Both posts by expatriated_texan and henchman24 look like improvement over what we have now.

$5 million is too much for Clarkson btw

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Old
05-14-2013, 01:39 PM
  #85
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Sorry. But if we sign Clarkson at 5.0M I will puke. More than once.
Guy just doesn't have hockey IQ. Like at all. Went for a hot streak to start the season and then cooled off. Somehow managed to score 30 last year though, lol. I think he's ok player but god hell no worth 5 mil. long-term.

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05-14-2013, 01:52 PM
  #86
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Sorry. But if we sign Clarkson at 5.0M I will puke. More than once.
Agreed, but I think his contract will approach that. It would be a bad contract going forward. All I am trying to point out is that if we move Stastny to LW, we are creating a hole at the #3C spot and we have to improve the overall top 6 of the team. There are not just any good options to do that with so many raises coming up.

IMO the best thing to do would be a split up the defensive minutes as much as possible between Stastny and ROR. Then continue to try to roll 3 2nd lines. Or the other option is to trade Stastny + for a proven top 6 wing and a #3C that are cheaper than a UFA combo would be.

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Old
05-14-2013, 02:07 PM
  #87
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We will not handcuff ourselves with long-term contracts this summer when nearly every single core player on our team is up for a new contract in the summer of 2014. Barring EJ/Parenteau/Jones(Seth), any half-decent asset on our team will be up for a new contract, solidified players like Stastny/Downie to young stars like Duchene/Landeskog/O'Reilly to rising contributors in McGinn/Barrie/Elliott to EVERY goalie in our system in Varlamov/Giguere/Sami/Pickard/Patterson... they're all free agents.

I know it's fun to play EA Sports NHL and add a couple of big, sexy contracts each and every year then magically make cap room the following, but that's just not the way the world works. Aside from maybe one middle-of-the-pack free agent, I'd be shocked if we spent much this summer on players not on the active roster. There are 7 one-way contracts on defense for goodness sake and people have all of Jones/Barrie/Elliott there. Do O'Brien, Zanon, Hunwick, etc. just disappear? Back to reality.

Our team is nowhere close to contending. Nowhere close. Tell yourself otherwise and you're either a serious homer or just don't have a good grasp on the game. We have holes everywhere. Scoring, team toughness, defense, goaltending, experience, everything. I highly doubt Josh loosens the purse strings this summer aside from the $3.25m cap hit for Seth Jones, a mid-tier FA, and a new coach.

Time to wake up and smell the jock straps. Give me a coach, health, and resource development. I'll be a happy man.

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05-14-2013, 02:09 PM
  #88
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So you want thirds?
duh.

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05-14-2013, 02:11 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
We will not handcuff ourselves with long-term contracts this summer when nearly every single core player on our team is up for a new contract in the summer of 2014. Barring EJ/Parenteau/Jones(Seth), any half-decent asset on our team will be up for a new contract, solidified players like Stastny/Downie to young stars like Duchene/Landeskog/O'Reilly to rising contributors in McGinn/Barrie/Elliott to EVERY goalie in our system in Varlamov/Giguere/Sami/Pickard/Patterson... they're all free agents.

I know it's fun to play EA Sports NHL and add a couple of big, sexy contracts each and every year then magically make cap room the following, but that's just not the way the world works. Aside from maybe one middle-of-the-pack free agent, I'd be shocked if we spent much this summer on players not on the active roster. There are 7 one-way contracts on defense for goodness sake and people have all of Jones/Barrie/Elliott there. Do O'Brien, Zanon, Hunwick, etc. just disappear? Back to reality.

Our team is nowhere close to contending. Nowhere close. Tell yourself otherwise and you're either a serious homer or just don't have a good grasp on the game. We have holes everywhere. Scoring, team toughness, defense, goaltending, experience, everything. I highly doubt Josh loosens the purse strings this summer aside from the $3.25m cap hit for Seth Jones, a mid-tier FA, and a new coach.

Time to wake up and smell the jock straps. Give me a coach, health, and resource development. I'll be a happy man.
I'd like to see them trim the fat this off season though. Get some fresh blood in here. Nothing major though outside of the 1st overall pick.

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05-14-2013, 02:12 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
We will not handcuff ourselves with long-term contracts this summer when nearly every single core player on our team is up for a new contract in the summer of 2014. Barring EJ/Parenteau/Jones(Seth), any half-decent asset on our team will be up for a new contract, solidified players like Stastny/Downie to young stars like Duchene/Landeskog/O'Reilly to rising contributors in McGinn/Barrie/Elliott to EVERY goalie in our system in Varlamov/Giguere/Sami/Pickard/Patterson... they're all free agents.

I know it's fun to play EA Sports NHL and add a couple of big, sexy contracts each and every year then magically make cap room the following, but that's just not the way the world works. Aside from maybe one middle-of-the-pack free agent, I'd be shocked if we spent much this summer on players not on the active roster. There are 7 one-way contracts on defense for goodness sake and people have all of Jones/Barrie/Elliott there. Do O'Brien, Zanon, Hunwick, etc. just disappear? Back to reality.

Our team is nowhere close to contending. Nowhere close. Tell yourself otherwise and you're either a serious homer or just don't have a good grasp on the game. We have holes everywhere. Scoring, team toughness, defense, goaltending, experience, everything. I highly doubt Josh loosens the purse strings this summer aside from the $3.25m cap hit for Seth Jones, a mid-tier FA, and a new coach.

Time to wake up and smell the jock straps. Give me a coach, health, and resource development. I'll be a happy man.
I'll call my Uncle Guido and see what can be worked out.

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05-14-2013, 02:18 PM
  #91
Hans Landaskog
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I'll call my Uncle Guido and see what can be worked out.

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05-14-2013, 02:37 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Basically what I am trying to say is that loading up on the top 6 creates another hole in the lineup that may exceed trying to just run 3 2nd lines.
It's easier to find a 3rd line center than a top 6 winger. It would create a hole, but while this team doesn't have much in terms of forward prospects, what little they do have play center so they could come up If need be.

This 3 center thing just isn't working, IMO, especially when two of them will be making upwards of 6M next season. Something should be done there. The second a winger goes down, like Downie this year, it screws with everything and you've got a guy like Stastny playing with guys who aren't going to finish anything he sets them up for, so suddenly he becomes less effective.

This team didn't score a lot of goals this year, and they didn't score a lot last year either. I think it's time to move away and try something else.

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05-14-2013, 03:03 PM
  #93
Pierce Hawthorne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
We will not handcuff ourselves with long-term contracts this summer when nearly every single core player on our team is up for a new contract in the summer of 2014. Barring EJ/Parenteau/Jones(Seth), any half-decent asset on our team will be up for a new contract, solidified players like Stastny/Downie to young stars like Duchene/Landeskog/O'Reilly to rising contributors in McGinn/Barrie/Elliott to EVERY goalie in our system in Varlamov/Giguere/Sami/Pickard/Patterson... they're all free agents.

I know it's fun to play EA Sports NHL and add a couple of big, sexy contracts each and every year then magically make cap room the following, but that's just not the way the world works. Aside from maybe one middle-of-the-pack free agent, I'd be shocked if we spent much this summer on players not on the active roster. There are 7 one-way contracts on defense for goodness sake and people have all of Jones/Barrie/Elliott there. Do O'Brien, Zanon, Hunwick, etc. just disappear? Back to reality.

Our team is nowhere close to contending. Nowhere close. Tell yourself otherwise and you're either a serious homer or just don't have a good grasp on the game. We have holes everywhere. Scoring, team toughness, defense, goaltending, experience, everything. I highly doubt Josh loosens the purse strings this summer aside from the $3.25m cap hit for Seth Jones, a mid-tier FA, and a new coach.

Time to wake up and smell the jock straps. Give me a coach, health, and resource development. I'll be a happy man.

Agreed 100%.

To many people on here fail to realize that we have almost every single one of our core guys that need to be resigned in 2 summers.

Were already hovering around the 55M mark of the Cap, and with Landeskog, Duchene, McGinn, Barrie, Oreilly, Varly all likely getting pay raises, some potentially as high as 3-4M.


We cant go out and sign any big name guys without knowing what our cap situation is going to be like with all of those guys signed to there next contracts before hand.


The only potential exception IMO would be if we can sign someone for a fairly cheap contract that helps fill a specific need then we go for it.

Otherwise signing a good Head Coach, drafting Jones + whoever in the 2nd round is enough for me.

In 2 summers time once we have all our core guys signed, then we can potentially look at signing a couple big name Free Agents if we have to. As JK said when the team sees the need to spend money, they will(Paranteau was proof of that).

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05-14-2013, 03:50 PM
  #94
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What's wrong with John Mitchell as 3C?
He sucks donkey balls?

He is not good enough offensively to belong in any Top 6 and he is not good enough defensively and on the PK to belong in any bottom 6.

Really would have loved to sell high on him at the deadline

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05-14-2013, 04:34 PM
  #95
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What's wrong with John Mitchell as 3C?
Pretty much everything. He is bad at faceoffs, defensively, doesn't use his teammates, can't receive a pass, can't pass the puck... the only think Mitchell is good at is shooting the puck and mad danglz. As a 4th line center he can come on the ice for 7-8 minutes and dangle and shoot until his heart is content.

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05-14-2013, 04:44 PM
  #96
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No to Phaneuf.

Yes to Gardiner.

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05-14-2013, 04:51 PM
  #97
henchman24
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It's easier to find a 3rd line center than a top 6 winger. It would create a hole, but while this team doesn't have much in terms of forward prospects, what little they do have play center so they could come up If need be.

This 3 center thing just isn't working, IMO, especially when two of them will be making upwards of 6M next season. Something should be done there. The second a winger goes down, like Downie this year, it screws with everything and you've got a guy like Stastny playing with guys who aren't going to finish anything he sets them up for, so suddenly he becomes less effective.

This team didn't score a lot of goals this year, and they didn't score a lot last year either. I think it's time to move away and try something else.
What if we ship out Stastny and sign a fringe #3C in Gordon, and then, in the 2nd game this year Duchene blows his ACL? Suddenly this team is running with ROR as the #1C and Gordon or Sgarbossa as the #2C...

I think the ROR holdout and Sacco's job security had a lot to do with it not working out. If ROR had been here from the start the season may have gone differently. Sacco being afraid his job was on the line the whole season wouldn't play a player like Sgarbossa in a role where he could do damage offensively.

I don't see many options for a good #3C if Stastny is moved. Bozak would be perfect in that role, but he will cost too much. Sgarbossa isn't strong enough defensively yet. Heard isn't ready. Malone isn't good enough for that role. There are no good options in the system for next year beside continuing the 3 scoring line option.

I think if the Avs can pick up Stalberg for less than $3m per, the forward group is pretty well set (and should have some decent depth).

Stalberg-Duchene-PAP
Landy-ROR-Downie
McGinn-Stastny-Jones
McLeod-Mitchell-Bordy
Palushaj
Olver

Then in Lake Erie you have these players that can step into roles that are either in the top 9 or allow somebody like Mitchell to play on the wing again: Sgarbossa, Vincour, Malone, Heard (maybe, might be too far away still), L Walker (4th line role), or Carey (in a 4th line role).

I just don't see a way for this team to trade away 1 of the 3 centers and become a better team. At least not until ROR can be traded for a king's ransom, and if he is preforming at that level I don't want to trade him.

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05-14-2013, 04:51 PM
  #98
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Pretty much everything. He is bad at faceoffs, defensively, doesn't use his teammates, can't receive a pass, can't pass the puck... the only think Mitchell is good at is shooting the puck and mad danglz. As a 4th line center he can come on the ice for 7-8 minutes and dangle and shoot until his heart is content.
I'd rather have an energy guy than Mitchell for 7-8 minutes a night.

I still see a veteran signing like Scuderi on D being very possible. Wehave amnesty buyouts we can use on Jones if needed as well.

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05-14-2013, 06:06 PM
  #99
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Lol, we're not signing a free agent d-man unless we trade what we already have.

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05-14-2013, 07:12 PM
  #100
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If a plug like John Mitchell is centering our 3rd, or even 4th line, we're in big trouble.

I'm down for trading Stastny, but move him wisely. Would love to get a young D + young C back for him, the D having more potential and the C being a good 3rd line type.

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