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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 4)

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Old
05-13-2013, 01:20 AM
  #276
Traitor8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyShea View Post
...........he never had under .900% save percentage in a season
talking about playoffs.

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05-13-2013, 01:25 AM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
talking about playoffs.
And it's silly to look at it that way without context.

Guy doesn't have that much of a playoff history and has played on terrible teams. Steve Yzerman for example made the 2nd round of the playoffs once in his first 6 or 7 years. Folks said he was a choker, then he wins some cups in his mid 30s and is now considered one of the best leaders of all time.

Price has been inconsistent in the playoffs and this year he was hurt. Way to early to write him off the way you've been doing. Get a grip man.

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05-13-2013, 01:35 AM
  #278
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Maybe we need to rethink how long goalies stay in Montreal.

5 or 6 years between the pipes in Montreal is a long time, there's a lot of pressure year in and year out. Maybe if we get that many good years out of a goalie we should consider it a success, make a trade and move on to new things.

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05-13-2013, 01:43 AM
  #279
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I think you entertain offers but only trade Pricey if it makes your team better. I think regardless a new goalie coach is needed for next year.

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05-13-2013, 01:43 AM
  #280
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Tortorella made a statement tonight when asked about the regular season. to Paraphrase, the regular season doesn't mean ****, legacies are created in the playoffs.

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05-13-2013, 04:23 AM
  #281
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But Price is 6'3 and can fight.

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05-13-2013, 06:26 AM
  #282
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I don't hate Price, how could I...???
I don't believe that he'll ever lead us to the cup.

I believe it is in the best interest of both sides to trade him in the off season. Both sides deserve the opportunity to move on.

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05-13-2013, 09:32 AM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
And it's silly to look at it that way without context.

Guy doesn't have that much of a playoff history and has played on terrible teams.
Don't know how "terrible" we can paint the Habs over Price's career so far. Twice division leaders, and twice 2nd in the division since '07/08. Now, we could certainly argue that they weren't "built for the playoffs", but there are so many low-scoring games in the playoffs that sometimes your goalie has to be THE biggest factor - and not just every other game, either - especially if he's your highest paid, "franchise" player.

Thought it was funny when someone piped up about it being unfair to ask him to win all kinds of 2-1 games... the day before 3 of 4 playoff games around the league were decided by that very score. There's little margin for error, little time to put together the four wins you need each round to move on, and the performance of your goalie largely dictates how you're able to grab/maintain momentum along the way.

We can look at Price's '10/11 post season stats and say "you know what, 'overall' he did his job and stopped enough pucks to at least give the Habs a chance". I don't think you can say that about any of his other four trips to the post season, though, hence the flack he's getting.

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05-13-2013, 10:22 AM
  #284
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This thread is a funny one. The reactions on this thread to the events of the last 4 weeks are rediculously short sighted. This type of knee jerk reaction is something that you have to expect from our fanbase though...

Not only is it obvious that Price has the physical tools to be a top 5 goalie in this league, but when compared to anyone his age he has more big game experience than any other goalie. He has had relative success in these big games as well. Sure he has had some rough patches, but name one Hall of Fame goalie who has not (maybe Marty B didn't...). Also, lets not forget that this guy is only 1 year older than the mighty super "rookie" James Reimer. Most goalies Price's age are in the AHL at this point.

Everyone talks about how much better Reimer is going to get with time, and yet completely ignore that Price has the exact same opportunity. The arguement that since Price is a 350 game "veteran", he cannot learn much more from his natural progression curve and future experience, is complete crap. Price has not peaked, and will not peak for years. Just because a player becomes good at an early age doesn't mean he won't progress for years to come.

In the end, the people calling for Price's head simply did not watch the playoffs, or at least do not understand hockey at all. He was bad in 1 of 4 games, but was the best player in 2 of them (for the Habs at least). These people are the impatient type who love to get caught up in the emotional knee jerk reactions that this fanbase is so prone to. The type of reaction that has chased great players from this hockey team and detered others from even signing in the first place...

Price is keeper. If the Habs want to win a cup, getting rid of Price is taking a step backwards. It puts them in a position that some teams cannot get out of, the awful feeling of not having a good starting goaltender, let alone one with the fantastic potential of Price. Go ask Philly if they would trade a goalie like Price after a terrible playoff series where the defense didn't show.


Last edited by bjac: 05-13-2013 at 10:28 AM.
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Old
05-13-2013, 10:26 AM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Tortorella made a statement tonight when asked about the regular season. to Paraphrase, the regular season doesn't mean ****, legacies are created in the playoffs.
And he's right.

That doesn't mean you trade away players because they haven't won for you. Esp when those players have played on **** teams and are 25 years old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Don't know how "terrible" we can paint the Habs over Price's career so far. Twice division leaders, and twice 2nd in the division since '07/08. Now, we could certainly argue that they weren't "built for the playoffs", but there are so many low-scoring games in the playoffs that sometimes your goalie has to be THE biggest factor - and not just every other game, either - especially if he's your highest paid, "franchise" player.

Thought it was funny when someone piped up about it being unfair to ask him to win all kinds of 2-1 games... the day before 3 of 4 playoff games around the league were decided by that very score. There's little margin for error, little time to put together the four wins you need each round to move on, and the performance of your goalie largely dictates how you're able to grab/maintain momentum along the way.

We can look at Price's '10/11 post season stats and say "you know what, 'overall' he did his job and stopped enough pucks to at least give the Habs a chance". I don't think you can say that about any of his other four trips to the post season, though, hence the flack he's getting.
His first year he beats the Bruins and loses to the Flyers.
His second year he comes back too soon from injury and the team sucks.
Halak does his Ken Dryden impression and Price doesn't start
Price goes 7 games and almost beats the cup champs
Then there's this year where he goes down with an injury.

Not a whole lot to go on here man.

It comes down to whether you think he's got the talent and mental makeup to be successful or not. The playoff records don't mean a whole lot to me. I think that he's good enough to take us to a cup if we surround him with a good team. If you don't think so, that's fair enough. But pointing to his playoff record isn't really going to change my mind on anything here.

And I do think that we'd regret dealing him. And if it happens and Price does find success, I guarantee you a lot of the folks trashing him will be blaming management for being stupid enough to trade him. That's how it works in Montreal.

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Old
05-13-2013, 10:29 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
It's moot. Rask and Quick have cup rings, not 9-17 playoff records, and aren't on page 3 of the NHL save pct list.
Rask has a Cup ring as a backup and didnt even factor in those playoffs. Hell i am not even sure he played a minute as Thomas lead Boston.

Still you would be complaining about these goalies in Montreal because they wouldnt have lead Montreal to the Cup. They would likely be suffering what Price has from fans like you.

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05-13-2013, 11:48 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
Yeah because he can take us to the promise land??? I would take many more than him at this moment.
This.

You all have very short memories.

Let me remind you of a couple things.

1) Most recently, the last series before Ottawa, the kid outplayed the eventual Conn Smythe Trophy winner on the eventual Stanley Cup winning team during their 2010-11 Eastern Conference Quarterfinal Series. He had a very good regular season and an outstanding playoff series, where the team lost to the future Stanley Cup champions, in Game 7, in OT.

2) This guy has so much talent, that all he's missing is that "next level" that he's been talking about, he will be among the franchise's elite goaltender's (Plante, Morenz, Dryden, Roy, etc.) and he will bring the Stanley Cup home to its rightful place: Montreal.

Now to remind you of this talent, look no further than the 2006-07 season. As the 2007 Canadian World Junior Team starting goaltender, he backstopped a team that had to defeat the U.S. in the semifinals in a shootout (Jonathan Toews 3 goals anyone?) to go on to win gold at the World Juniors. On one of the worst teams in the WHL, almost took the Tri-City Americans to a PO berth in the WHL. He was named the Canadian Hockey League Goaltender of the Year. Following the end of his WHL season, Price was invited by the Canadiens' organization to join its AHL farm team, the Hamilton Bulldogs for the end of their season and playoff run. What does he do there? Takes over the starting job from older, more experienced goaltenders, plays lights out for the Bulldogs, wins the Calder Cup, and is given the Jack A. Butterfield Trophy as the AHL Playoffs MVP.

This is the amount of raw talent that Price has. All that he needs to do this summer, is find out how he can elevate his game to another level so he can play at a Vezina Trophy-like calibre during the season and 1986/1993/1996/2001 Patrick Roy-like during the playoffs.

It's that simple. Get off his back. We need to stop booing him whenever small little mistakes happen and cheer him on constantly. It's obvious he is unhappy with the Montreal fanbase and their "knee-jerk" reactions all the time, and it is most definitely warranted by Carey. The sooner we treat him like Patrick Roy, the sooner he'll become Patrick Roy (given he takes the next step to the next level himself).

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Old
05-13-2013, 12:03 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis76 View Post
i'm not sure how to read through this Logic.




A goalie is expected to play 60 mins a game.
A goalie is expected to make the saves.
Currently the median sv% for a top 30 goalie in the NHL is 0.920%
A top 5 goalie is expected to be above or at (roughly) the median sv%
Carey price's sv% was 0.905% placing him in the 35th place.

A goalie is expected to bounce back from a bad game.

When your goalie gives in a bad goal your team has to score 2 more to win the game.

No one is expecting the goalie to carry the team
But no one should expect a team to carry the goalie either

I think Carey has one more shot with the canadiens and if he doesn't perform he will be gone.
How does the median Save % (30th place) at .920% drop by .015 to the 35th place goaltending Save %? Seems like the numbers are stretched between 30 and 35.

Something fishy here...

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Old
05-13-2013, 12:17 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
But the two are related, right? Allocating this cap space to goaltending and hanging on to this tradeable asset is an opportunity cost that affects the D.
Tomas Kaberle. Scott Gomez.

Scott Gomez was bought out.

So will Kaberle and we'll have room now.

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05-13-2013, 12:28 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
At this point, I don't understand anybody's refusal to look at the possibility of moving Price.
One of the highest paid goalies in the NHL that has yet to have one season where he actually earned that money.
If Price still has this huge reputation around the NHL, then we should look at what assets we could get in return.
Being in arguably the craziest hockey city and playing in probably the most important position in the arguably craziest hockey city, he's earned every penny.

Just because you earn more money doesn't necessarily mean you are the better player (see Scott Gomez), but it also doesn't mean you necessarily don't deserve to be paid more.

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05-13-2013, 12:31 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Yes he had an average year ... let me guess what you are going to say ... "if it wasn't for Price, we would be 15th in the East ..oh wait"
http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8471679

IMO, his stats say otherwise. 2.43 GAA and .916 Save %? That's average to you? Then what's good to you? 2.25 GAA and a .925 Save%.

IMO, average goaltending is 2.50 GAA and a .900 Save%. Carey Price played above average in 2011-12. Get your heads out of your *****.

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05-13-2013, 12:38 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
I'm not hating ..it's well accepted that our goalies (Price and Budaj) played like **** and lost us games or didn't do enough to win a game.

Game 1 - Lost by Price, Anderson amazing
Game 2 - Price very good, 1st star
Game 3 - Price not good enough, average or below average.
Game 4 - Price flopping list fish on 2nd goal + Budaj choke job
Game 5 - Budaj choke job


We dominated Ottawa in large parts of games this series.

Enough with this we made Anderson look good.. Anderson has looked good for 6 years now, facing or without facing the habs! He's elite, get use to it!
Game 1: Lost by Price? He let in one softie and it's all his fault? Anderson was amazing. Price DIDN'T lose it. Keep the bias coming.

Game 2: Agree.

Game 3: You mean when the team had quite a lot of defensive lapses in the 3rd period and then decided to resort to goonery for the rest of the game? You mean that average/below average Price?

Game 4: How about the 3 Sens jerseys in/around his crease and then 1 one of them finds the puck and buries it while Carey doesn't even know where it is? You're talking about that goal? Budaj choke job? How about deflection of Diaz' elbow that made it hard to save?

Game 5: Chokejob I'll agree, but it is Budaj we're talking about here...\

Honestly, some of you guys here need your heads out of your *****...

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05-13-2013, 12:39 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAKS AVENUE View Post
I hope the Habs don't wait until the olympics for the truth to come out because that's when the hockey world will turn on Price. I don't get why he is held up on such a pedestal. His value is at it's highest right now, strangely so, we should take advantage of that.

My vote is for Bergy to do something at the draft table. Our first and Price to the highest bidder.
My hopes would be a prospect, a big" fighter" hard nosed winger and a top 10 pick.

Go with Budaj and tokarski and ride it out.

Who could we target?
Are you nuts? Good thing we don't have guys like you running our organization...

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05-13-2013, 12:42 PM
  #294
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There are alot of players I can't stand on this team but Price isn't one of them he will be fine

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05-13-2013, 12:43 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
It's impossible that a goalie is so good ..gets 9/10 and yet the team finishes 15th. It just doesn't happen. Have you heard of goalies carrying their team into the playoffs? If Price got the habs to 8th with that team, what would you give him 15/10? lol ...9/10 get REAL!
Yeah I have. It's called the 2001-02 Montreal Canadiens. Jose Theodore played on his head the entire season and playoffs. His stats? 2.11 GAA and a .931 Save %. Good enough to win him the Vezina and Hart Trophy that year. 10/10.

Price, if you see his stats, played very well, but when you have a defensive system where the defense can't defend properly, you aren't going to score enough goals to win games. I wonder how many games they lost in 2011-12 that were one goal games. He played above average in 2011-12 and the team played like absolute crap.

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05-13-2013, 01:02 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Look at his career ....bud
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8467950

Your point? He has a below average career GAA and an above average Save %.

IMO, his career's been average. Sum's it up quite well. Is there a Vezina Trophy-winning season i'm missing? How about a Stanley Cup playoff run, let alone winning playoffs?

Wake the **** up. Anderson has played great the past 2 seasons, 1 of them being a half season where he played 24 games. I'm not sold on Anderson, but I do think he's a very good goalie. Elite? Time will tell...

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05-13-2013, 01:04 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Habs must have horrifying defense. I can't believe they won the division. Must be because of Price.
Their defense did play very well for most of this season, but when Emelin goes down, **** hits the fan and a lot of the games down the stretch I think are either the defense's fault or a combination of defense and goaltending. Only a couple/few games were Price's/Budaj's fault.

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05-13-2013, 01:06 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
This.

You all have very short memories.

Let me remind you of a couple things.

1) Most recently, the last series before Ottawa, the kid outplayed the eventual Conn Smythe Trophy winner on the eventual Stanley Cup winning team during their 2010-11 Eastern Conference Quarterfinal Series. He had a very good regular season and an outstanding playoff series, where the team lost to the future Stanley Cup champions, in Game 7, in OT.
He did not outplay Thomas. Give me a break.

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05-13-2013, 01:08 PM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Game 1: Lost by Price? He let in one softie and it's all his fault? Anderson was amazing. Price DIDN'T lose it. Keep the bias coming.

Game 2: Agree.

Game 3: You mean when the team had quite a lot of defensive lapses in the 3rd period and then decided to resort to goonery for the rest of the game? You mean that average/below average Price?

Game 4: How about the 3 Sens jerseys in/around his crease and then 1 one of them finds the puck and buries it while Carey doesn't even know where it is? You're talking about that goal? Budaj choke job? How about deflection of Diaz' elbow that made it hard to save?

Game 5: Chokejob I'll agree, but it is Budaj we're talking about here...\

Honestly, some of you guys here need your heads out of your *****...

He let in a softie at a misopportune time. Is it all on him? No. But he shares a lot of the blame for that game 1 loss. Anderson standing on his head, Habs have a 2-1 lead in the 3rd and you let in that garbage? Weak.

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05-13-2013, 01:14 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Game 1: Lost by Price? He let in one softie and it's all his fault? Anderson was amazing. Price DIDN'T lose it. Keep the bias coming.

Game 2: Agree.

Game 3: You mean when the team had quite a lot of defensive lapses in the 3rd period and then decided to resort to goonery for the rest of the game? You mean that average/below average Price?

Game 4: How about the 3 Sens jerseys in/around his crease and then 1 one of them finds the puck and buries it while Carey doesn't even know where it is? You're talking about that goal? Budaj choke job? How about deflection of Diaz' elbow that made it hard to save?

Game 5: Chokejob I'll agree, but it is Budaj we're talking about here...\

Honestly, some of you guys here need your heads out of your *****...
And it's people like you who CONTINUOUSLY defend Price as if he has NOTHING to learn anymore that probably creates the "some of you guys" to come in full force and note that Price isn't there yet. Our GM also thinks he's not there yet. Price himself thinks he's not there yet. Somehow, some "other guys" still think he is and plays like a top 5 goalie when himself and his GM don't think so. But somehow, Price haters are the ones with an agenda.....

I would not trade Price.....yet. But next year is THE key year. End result is that it's his 6th year with only a 2nd round to show for. Will it be a good decision if we trade him? Probably not, always defending who you acquire. Will he do better elsewhere with a stronger team? I guess so but we will always be able to say 2 things if he does well elsewhere...."he wouldn't have done it here" and "well he plays under a stronger system and much better D so he has no merit....as some are implying about the other great goalies in the league....Not sure why, for Price, it should be any different unless the Price "lovers" ALSO have an agenda.

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