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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 4)

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Old
05-12-2013, 08:46 PM
  #201
cap10bfl
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...045/story.html

i usually hate Jack Todd but i agree with him on this...

if Price not being happy affects his performance then something must be done, one way or another

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05-12-2013, 08:48 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by CP31 View Post
Every good goalie is insulated though. No goalie is going to to good with 1 top pairing D, and a bunch of small, soft defenseman. Rask, Lundquist, Quick, they all have very good defensive teams. Look at Rinne. Take Suter away and his play drops off significantly.
While I think that you have a little too much emotional attachment towards Price... I will agree with you on this.

Take Halak in the 2010 playoffs... He was incredible, but so was the top 4 in front of him. Gill Gorges pairing was awesome against the top lines, as well as Hammer and PK.

It's quite obvious Price was terrible (even fan boys can admit that) the past 2 months, but he really didn't have anyone to bail him out of tough spots. The Defence was just too weak and didn't do enough to help.

He was on his own, and couldn't perform to the level he should have. Give Price Regher, Doughty, scuderi, voynov, or Girardi, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Moore, or Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuck and Ference and I think he would perform better.

My issue with this is that Price is being payed to take over games and lead this team's defence, and bail them out of tough spots... but I think his mental attributes are little weak for that.

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05-12-2013, 08:58 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
While I think that you have a little too much emotional attachment towards Price... I will agree with you on this.

Take Halak in the 2010 playoffs... He was incredible, but so was the top 4 in front of him. Gill Gorges pairing was awesome against the top lines, as well as Hammer and PK.

It's quite obvious Price was terrible (even fan boys can admit that) the past 2 months, but he really didn't have anyone to bail him out of tough spots. The Defence was just too weak and didn't do enough to help.

He was on his own, and couldn't perform to the level he should have. Give Price Regher, Doughty, scuderi, voynov, or Girardi, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Moore, or Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuck and Ference and I think he would perform better.

My issue with this is that Price is being payed to take over games and lead this team's defence, and bail them out of tough spots... but I think his mental attributes are little weak for that.
A goalie can only stop so many odd man rushes. I was shocked at how many clear opportunities Ottawa had in the slot, our defense was playing like high schoolers. A goalie can make a difference absolutely but price maybe let in one or two weak goals over the entire playoff series. In comparison Anderson let in the same if not more yet he is the best goalie ever. Rewatch the games to see how badly price was left hung out to dry and take a look at how many empty nets and posts we hit.

I don't know why all these habs fans have this delusion that price is crap, and that was proven with the one game without him. He's an elite goalie, at the end of the day your only as strong as your weakest link and our defense was far to weak. Insert the best goalie of all time and I guarantee we would have the same result. Might have been one or two goals not let in but if you really think price is the problem with this team I feel sorry for you.

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05-12-2013, 09:14 PM
  #204
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No offense, but you speak as if all habs fans are rational.
You said it yourself. "Habs fans". To be a Habs fan, you need to be a fan of the Habs. It has to mean that you want your team to win. If being irrationnal for you means that people can hate a player way too much and that they irrationnally put too much pressure on a guy or thinks he's much worst than he actually is....well okay. Some Habs fans are irrationnal....but it's STILL based on seeing their team WIN. If we win a Cup and he's totally instrumental to the win...you think that those irrationnal fans will still want him gone the next year? Sorry, that's not irrationnal, that's totally stupid and while some people might be, I call it a minority. Which then brings the point...why the heck are we talking about a minority.

At one point, let say that Price haters and Price lovers really exist. I guess you become "irrationnal" the day that BOTH sides can't agree with you. But until then, you are as irrationnal as the "side" that is against you think you are. Which to me doesn't really mean how really irrationnal you are...just that you, I or any other just don't share the same point of view.

Mind you, I TOTALLY agree with this is such a heated debate. We do not have the depth in goals that the Bruins have for example. This Price story will REALLY BE determining where we are going and if we take another freakin step back. If we make another Roy trade if it doesn't work with Price, we make another step back for sure. Enough with those setbacks. We have to move forward. But it HAS to mean moving forward....with or without Price. So let's hope Price brings it.....or let's hope Bergevin brings a good deal out of it. But we can't be wrong here.

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05-12-2013, 09:15 PM
  #205
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Leafs win 2-1 over Boston. Let's add this to the list of playoff games a team has a chance to win if they score only 2 goals in 60 minutes:



-Chi scores 2 goals in game 1, they win.
-Chi and Min both score 2 goals only in Game 3, they get to go to OT and have a chance.
-Ana scores only 2 goals in Game 1 (not counting empty netter) and win.
-ANA and Det both scores 2 goals in game 4, they get to go to OT.
-ANA and Det both scores 2 goals in game 5, they get to go to OT.
-SJ and Van both scores 2 goals in game 2, they get to go to OT.
-STL and LA both scores only 1 goal, they get to go to OT.
-STL scores only 2 goals in game 2 and win it.
-LA scores only 1 goal in game 3 and wins it
-LA and STL scores only 2 goals each to get to OT.
-LA scores 2 goals in game 6 to win it.
-WSH scores only 1 goal in Game 2 to win it.
-NYR and WSH score only 1 goal each in game 5 to get to OT.
-NYR win Game 6 by scoring only 1 goal.
-TOR scores only 2 to win game 5.
-TOR scores only 2 to win game 6.


Last edited by Traitor8: 05-12-2013 at 09:28 PM. Reason: i
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Old
05-12-2013, 09:22 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
While I think that you have a little too much emotional attachment towards Price... I will agree with you on this.

Take Halak in the 2010 playoffs... He was incredible, but so was the top 4 in front of him. Gill Gorges pairing was awesome against the top lines, as well as Hammer and PK.

It's quite obvious Price was terrible (even fan boys can admit that) the past 2 months, but he really didn't have anyone to bail him out of tough spots. The Defence was just too weak and didn't do enough to help.

He was on his own, and couldn't perform to the level he should have. Give Price Regher, Doughty, scuderi, voynov, or Girardi, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Moore, or Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuck and Ference and I think he would perform better.

My issue with this is that Price is being payed to take over games and lead this team's defence, and bail them out of tough spots... but I think his mental attributes are little weak for that.
Sorry, but it makes no sense. Gill and Hammer...so incredible that we didn't think it was necessary to keep them. And that Bruins defense...is it the same defense we called so overrated over the years? That if Chara would be out, they'd be a pack of sieves?

And that for everybody who watched the playoffs, no matter how great those defense were...didn't people see the TONS of chances that they still ended up giving? Didn't people see how extraordinairy Quick had to be nonetheless?

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05-12-2013, 09:22 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by cap10bfl View Post
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...045/story.html

i usually hate Jack Todd but i agree with him on this...

if Price not being happy affects his performance then something must be done, one way or another
Well if he's that unhappy why did he agree to a 6 year extension?..

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05-12-2013, 09:26 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well if he's that unhappy why did he agree to a 6 year extension?..
Good point. Unless, he thought that the money was so incredibly there, it gave him still a security and that he thinks that a goalie with his potential, if really unhappy, would still be good enough to be moved? Yet, you can turn that question around. If he's still happy and signed an extension, why would he complain about being a rabbit in a hole? Is that what a happy person would say? I mean, you could even think it and not say it but to go as far as saying it...was this a last chance to get to the crowd to ask for some privacy?

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05-12-2013, 09:28 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Leafs win 2-1 over Boston. Let's add this to the list of playoff games a team has a chance to win if they score only 2 goals in 60 minutes:
You don't understand, you need at least 3 goals to win...

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05-12-2013, 09:29 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Sorry, but it makes no sense. Gill and Hammer...so incredible that we didn't think it was necessary to keep them. And that Bruins defense...is it the same defense we called so overrated over the years? That if Chara would be out, they'd be a pack of sieves?

And that for everybody who watched the playoffs, no matter how great those defense were...didn't people see the TONS of chances that they still ended up giving? Didn't people see how extraordinairy Quick had to be nonetheless?
People have a hard time understanding just how good your goalie has to be to win the cup. If you have a deep team with top end talent, like Pittsburgh and Chicago did, then you can win with weaker goaltending, but you still need your goalie to make some highlight reel saves and shut the door down when it's really important
If you don't have that top end talent, then you need your goalie to win the Conn Smythe.

We don't have that top end talent so we need Price to really step it up. We will never win until one of those two things change.

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05-12-2013, 09:34 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Sorry, but it makes no sense. Gill and Hammer...so incredible that we didn't think it was necessary to keep them. And that Bruins defense...is it the same defense we called so overrated over the years? That if Chara would be out, they'd be a pack of sieves?

And that for everybody who watched the playoffs, no matter how great those defense were...didn't people see the TONS of chances that they still ended up giving? Didn't people see how extraordinairy Quick had to be nonetheless?
It's not only about the chances... It's about how they pick up the players/pucks after/during the chances... It's pretty simple to understand.

Maybe Rask is better than Price, and to be honest I don't care. Their defense is also incredibly better than ours. They have two top pairing D and one up and coming in Hamilton... Then the depth guys like Ference, McQuaid and Boychuck would all be better than ours...

Now look at the last minutes of that game... The leafs picked up every player... They still gave huge first chance... The goalie will always(well almost) make the first save, its after that it gets ugly... Look at how Lucic and Kessel scored their goals... That's more than 90% of the goals that were scored against us...

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05-12-2013, 09:34 PM
  #212
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We don't have that top end talent so we need Price to really step it up. We will never win until one of those two things change.
Absolutely. We need to improve in front of him for sure. I am not expecting him to have 20 shutouts. I have enough of the goalie having to be THE key guy. But I thought that we were going to have that this year. Price wasn't phenomenal, far from it, and we still makes the playoffs playing good most of the year. Yet, that wasn't enough in the playoffs. In the end though, Price will ALSO need to raise his game. He will have to work on his fundamentals. And work on his mental game as well.

Besides....what if, for one of the first time....we could really apply the "He wouldn't have done it here" that some people kept applying right or wrong for players who were doing better elsewhere? What if that motto REALLY applies to him? We will need to get it...and do something about it in due time.

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05-12-2013, 09:39 PM
  #213
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People have a hard time understanding just how good your goalie has to be to win the cup. If you have a deep team with top end talent, like Pittsburgh and Chicago did, then you can win with weaker goaltending, but you still need your goalie to make some highlight reel saves and shut the door down when it's really important
If you don't have that top end talent, then you need your goalie to win the Conn Smythe.

We don't have that top end talent so we need Price to really step it up. We will never win until one of those two things change.
No you don't. What you need is a team playing together and meshing together. We've seen a lot of ''under talented'' teams win over the years. You need EVERYTHING to work well. You cannot and I absolutely want you to understand this you CANNOT rely on your goalie to win a cup. Yes, he can be your best player but you need damn good players in front.

It's funny, goaltending(the position) is actually a team position, Crosby can score 3 goals by himself... Hasek can't stop 30 by himself. He needs supports somewhere.

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05-12-2013, 09:39 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Good point. Unless, he thought that the money was so incredibly there, it gave him still a security and that he thinks that a goalie with his potential, if really unhappy, would still be good enough to be moved? Yet, you can turn that question around. If he's still happy and signed an extension, why would he complain about being a rabbit in a hole? Is that what a happy person would say? I mean, you could even think it and not say it but to go as far as saying it...was this a last chance to get to the crowd to ask for some privacy?
Being unhappy is not a small statement. I'm sure it happens to everybody here, sometimes you have bad days and just want to be alone with your thoughts at home, in a parc, on the street, mall, wherever people likes to collect their thoughts.
And if you're a private person, I can see that it's even more annoying.
Maybe it was a way for him to pass a message that he doesn't want to disturbed.

But there's a difference between that, and saying he's unhappy therefore we should move him, as Todd is somewhat entertaining.

And as I said, why sign an extension? It's not like he's been here for 1-2years. He knows exactly how things are here, and I seriously doubt he gets mobbed in Nun's Island or Candiac or wherever he lives.

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05-12-2013, 09:39 PM
  #215
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Now look at the last minutes of that game... The leafs picked up every player... They still gave huge first chance... The goalie will always(well almost) make the first save, its after that it gets ugly... Look at how Lucic and Kessel scored their goals... That's more than 90% of the goals that were scored against us...
You said it. They scored like the other teams scored against us. So it's not only us who get scored against like that. Despite the other teams being much better defensively. Yes, we need to improve. I keep saying how our D is weak despite the fact that we were having a great season this year. We were weak then but were winning so it wasn't apparent. But then we started losing and THEN it became apparent. So we need to work on that D. There is one small problem.....WE WILL HAVE THE SAME DEFENSE. And if so, if Price doesn't upgrade his play, it will become infernal for him. Everybody is back next year. Of course having Emelin will be key. And a 1-year old Tinordi will be an improvement. But everybody else will remain the same. This is not what I called a huge improvement.

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05-12-2013, 09:40 PM
  #216
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********. I want the HABS to win the cup and do well. Nobody was happier than me when we won game 2 and price making sick save after sick save. That's the price I want.

Not Price where all his fanboys make excuses and we can't get an offensive star because our goalie is making 6.5 but playing like a 3 m $ goalie.

Just because I don't see Price as a franchise player doesn't make me any less of a fan than you.
Yes it does

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05-12-2013, 09:43 PM
  #217
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You said it. They scored like the other teams scored against us. So it's not only us who get scored against like that. Despite the other teams being much better defensively. Yes, we need to improve. I keep saying how our D is weak despite the fact that we were having a great season this year. We were weak then but were winning so it wasn't apparent. But then we started losing and THEN it became apparent. So we need to work on that D. There is one small problem.....WE WILL HAVE THE SAME DEFENSE. And if so, if Price doesn't upgrade his play, it will become infernal for him. Everybody is back next year. Of course having Emelin will be key. And a 1-year old Tinordi will be an improvement. But everybody else will remain the same. This is not what I called a huge improvement.
Obviously its not... All those goals are ''weak'' goals by posters standards here.

I agree about the defense, although I don't see why PRICE has to be responsible of a ****** defense. It's not logical, it's not rational and it's not realistic.

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05-12-2013, 09:44 PM
  #218
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And as I said, why sign an extension? It's not like he's been here for 1-2years. He knows exactly how things are here, and I seriously doubt he gets mobbed in Nun's Island or Candiac or wherever he lives.
Maybe at that time, he thought he'd be top 5. As everybody says, it's great to WIN in Montreal. Not to PLAY in Montreal. So a winning Price, a great Price, couldn,t care less about being disturbed....but an average one might be more disturbed. So he signs an extension thinking everything will be fine but then realizes that it might not be that easy.

Frankly, I do have a tough time believing that he has to live like a rabbit. Always thought that Habs fans were mostly quiet. Would probably say hi, but give him a paparazzi treatment? I guess, but if it is as I report it....for some reasons, maybe it wasn't the same before? But now that's how it became?

Yes, Todd implies things. But in the end he also mentions that Bergevin needs to have a long hard talk. And if it means that there are no problems...well that's just it. There are no problems. But personnally, I would also hope that my goalie tells me if there is a problem before he makes a Roy-Tremblay incident to not let the Habs any choice but to move him so that we'd be AGAIN the big time loser of all this.

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05-12-2013, 09:45 PM
  #219
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No you don't. What you need is a team playing together and meshing together. We've seen a lot of ''under talented'' teams win over the years. You need EVERYTHING to work well. You cannot and I absolutely want you to understand this you CANNOT rely on your goalie to win a cup. Yes, he can be your best player but you need damn good players in front.

It's funny, goaltending(the position) is actually a team position, Crosby can score 3 goals by himself... Hasek can't stop 30 by himself. He needs supports somewhere.
It goes without saying that you also need the rest of your team to play well..
Nobody here is trying to argue that Colorado could have won the cup this year if their goalie was the best one in the NHL.

Not sure what you're talking about in terms of positions. Hockey is a team spot. Crosby can score 5 goals if you want, if the rest of the team is crap, they'll lose.
Hasek can make all the saves in the world, if his team doesn't score a goal, they won't win.

You just missed the point. You can win a game if you have 2-3 players performing poorly. If you're goalie performs poorly though, you will lose 99% of the time.

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05-12-2013, 09:48 PM
  #220
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It goes without saying that you also need the rest of your team to play well..
Nobody here is trying to argue that Colorado could have won the cup this year if their goalie was the best one in the NHL.

Not sure what you're talking about in terms of positions. Hockey is a team spot. Crosby can score 5 goals if you want, if the rest of the team is crap, they'll lose.
Hasek can make all the saves in the world, if his team doesn't score a goal, they won't win.

You just missed the point. You can win a game if you have 2-3 players performing poorly. If you're goalie performs poorly though, you will lose 99% of the time.
Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Remember that Philly team that beat the godlike goalie in 2010?

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05-12-2013, 09:49 PM
  #221
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It's not Price that is the problem, it's the D.

Yeah, he was off the last few months, but so was our D.

Look what happened in the playoffs: Soft D unable to clear the crease.

Price out, Budaj in: Same problem, same scoreline 6-1, same outcome

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05-12-2013, 09:54 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Maybe at that time, he thought he'd be top 5. As everybody says, it's great to WIN in Montreal. Not to PLAY in Montreal. So a winning Price, a great Price, couldn,t care less about being disturbed....but an average one might be more disturbed. So he signs an extension thinking everything will be fine but then realizes that it might not be that easy.

Frankly, I do have a tough time believing that he has to live like a rabbit. Always thought that Habs fans were mostly quiet. Would probably say hi, but give him a paparazzi treatment? I guess, but if it is as I report it....for some reasons, maybe it wasn't the same before? But now that's how it became?

Yes, Todd implies things. But in the end he also mentions that Bergevin needs to have a long hard talk. And if it means that there are no problems...well that's just it. There are no problems. But personnally, I would also hope that my goalie tells me if there is a problem before he makes a Roy-Tremblay incident to not let the Habs any choice but to move him so that we'd be AGAIN the big time loser of all this.
Ya, it's great to win in Mtl, and that's what he did this year. We had the best season in a very long time. He only had his funk at the end of the year and during the POs.

I agree with you about the paparazzi. I'm sure there are some instances, but to the point where you can't do anything is much exaggerated. I've seen Habs players around many times in Mtl, and I've never seen them be stopped to talk to fans, sign autographs, or have annoying fans mobbing them around.

I mean, I'm pretty sure Koivu was pretty annoyed when some people took pictures of him after his eye injury at the hospital. That doesn't mean he's unhappy though.

I personally think Bergevin should look at moving Price just to see what return he could possibly get for him. If we can get something big, then I would definitely consider it seriously. The only issue is we need to find a suitable keeper as a replacement as well.

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05-12-2013, 09:54 PM
  #223
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It's not Price that is the problem, it's the D.

Yeah, he was off the last few months, but so was our D.

Look what happened in the playoffs: Soft D unable to clear the crease.

Price out, Budaj in: Same problem, same scoreline 6-1, same outcome
The first goal Budaj let in was an absolute stinker after the Habs were dominating. The second goal could be blamed on the D but even then Budaj let out a garbage rebound and it deflated the team.

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05-12-2013, 09:56 PM
  #224
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Obviously its not... All those goals are ''weak'' goals by posters standards here.

I agree about the defense, although I don't see why PRICE has to be responsible of a ****** defense. It's not logical, it's not rational and it's not realistic.
No they are not. Some goals were weaker than others. Tough to blame Reimer on the Lucic goal, people would not have blamed Price either. For the Kessel goal, well people might have put the blame on Price for not keeping the rebound and being flat on his belly as he often is.

By the way, Price isn't responsible for a weak defense. But the defense can't also be blamed for some average goaltending as well. You are often as good as the guy who stops the pucks stop it or not. It's incredible how people are totally able to separate Price from the team. That's ALSO makes no sense to me. There are tons of scoring chances every game towards every team. And most of them needs a timely and big save from their goalies.

No matter how strong you are, the goalie always play a decisive role. At one point, when Philly and Chicago ended up in a Cup finals, people thought that it was the end of the goalie domination, that you didn't need great goalies anymore....and then they were wrong. And especially when you start making an analysis of the past oh so many years. It usually starts with the goalie. And then you add the kind of pressure lives in Montreal especially for their goaltending, you add on the money he makes and the fact that people do expect that the more money you make, the better you are suppose to be or/and the greatest of a game changing player you are suppose to have. Just the nature of the beast.

So we sucked on D? Okay....we still ended up making the playoffs despite the short season? Unless you are saying that it's a travesty that on a regular season we would have never made the playoffs to begin with? If not...we made the playoffs on what? Surely not on goaltending.....so we had to have something good up front. Not good enough to go far in the playoffs....but at least something good enough to make the playoffs. Which it should have transpired on the goalie's numbers.

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05-12-2013, 09:58 PM
  #225
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I mean, I'm pretty sure Koivu was pretty annoyed when some people took pictures of him after his eye injury at the hospital. That doesn't mean he's unhappy though.

I personally think Bergevin should look at moving Price just to see what return he could possibly get for him. If we can get something big, then I would definitely consider it seriously. The only issue is we need to find a suitable keeper as a replacement as well.
Tough to think that Koivu wasn't unhappy when amongst his last comment was "It was time for me to leave". For Price, well it was a short season. January we played only 5 games so that's a short sample but February was awesome. March came and despite a 6-3-1 his GAA and Save% started to drastically changed compared to the previous month. So all and all, people should stop saying that it was only towards the end of the year...we had a 4-month year. March was the start of his descent. And never seemed to recuperate.

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