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Trying to make sense of next year...

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Old
05-12-2013, 03:56 PM
  #76
A1Portable
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Originally Posted by 19 for president View Post
Well I don't think any of Weiss, Horton, Clarkson, etc... will be getting less than 5 mil. If they do great, then its an overestimation on my part. In my above lineup Weiss is just a 5 mil placeholder for any of the listed players. I'd probably go for the cheapest of Weiss, Horton, Clarkson, or Clowe.

The reason I go for Weiss vs Flip is because he is a true top 6 center. He is pretty good at faceoffs, has averaged 75+ games for the most part over the past 5 or so seasons. He has hit 60 pts twice and has hit 20 goals 4 times. He has also done all of this with very little offensive support. Flip in contrast has played quite a bit of time with Dats, Z, Franzen, etc over his career and he has only hit 60+ once and 20 goals once. He also did that as a winger, and the Wings don't really need Fil as a winger. The Wings have Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco etc to fill a skill winger spot in the top 6. In contrast we only have Jarnkrok to maybe replace a top 6 center spot anytime soon. So if we had to pay 5 mil for either I'd take Weiss over Flip. He's proven to be a more consistent scorer and can do so at the center position, whereas Flip almost has to play winger to be effective offensively.
Any one of those guys would be an improvement, though I'm a little wary of Weiss because he's had some injury issues, and he's not a particularly physical player. The Wings need to get bigger and scrappier.

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05-12-2013, 03:58 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
We can get Torres and Iginla this offseason while still adding Tatar. -- think about the change
Iginla for Flip
Torres for Cleary
Tatar for Miller
More offense. More size. More toughness.

But it takes a "get-up-and-go" GM who doesn't move like a sloth
I like it.

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05-12-2013, 04:01 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
The issues I have with Weiss is that

A) he is already 30. Can he still maintain that production? He also probably wants 5 years or more.

B) he is 511.

I haven't followed Florida too much the past few years so maybe he plays bigger than 5'11 but still.
I share your concern. I like Weiss. He's one of the more under-rated centers in the league, but he's not big, and the Wings need to get bigger and scrappier. I would take Weiss. He would improve the Wings, but he would not be my first choice.

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05-12-2013, 05:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Raffi Torres ($1.750m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($4.500m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.950m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.788m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.225m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Brendan Smith ($1.827m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.150m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
Jared Coreau ($0.925m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)
Buyout: Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,067,254; BONUSES: $1,192,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $2,425,246
Sorry but I find it hilarious that you gripe so much about Abby playing in the top 6, then in all the roster suggestions you make for next year you lobby for Raffi ****ing torres to be a staple on Datsyuk's wing. Like Raffi Torres hasn't been used primarily as a bottom 6 player for most of his career. Why the love affair with Torres? I think he's a turd, but at least he's physical and gritty. I'd take him but definitely not as a linemate for Datsyuk, screw that...

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05-12-2013, 05:44 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by A1Portable View Post
I share your concern. I like Weiss. He's one of the more under-rated centers in the league, but he's not big, and the Wings need to get bigger and scrappier. I would take Weiss. He would improve the Wings, but he would not be my first choice.
But if we are replacing Filpula, he is a better center by far. He actually produces. We don't need a big physical center. But we do need big, physical wingers.

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05-12-2013, 05:45 PM
  #81
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Get rid of

Flip
Cleary
Sammy
Miller or Eaves

It's addition by subtraction. Team should be much better with those players gone.

I would also get rid of the human garbage can, aka Justin Abdelkader, but sadly Babcock has lost his damn mind and isn't going anywhere.

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05-12-2013, 05:48 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Get rid of

Flip
Cleary
Sammy
Miller or Eaves

It's addition by subtraction. Team should be much better with those players gone.

I would also get rid of the human garbage can, aka Justin Abdelkader, but sadly Babcock has lost his damn mind and isn't going anywhere.
Abby has been great. I prefer him on the bottom 2 lines, but I'm glad we have him. He's a good player.

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05-12-2013, 05:52 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by cupforwings09 View Post
But if we are replacing Filpula, he is a better center by far. He actually produces. We don't need a big physical center. But we do need big, physical wingers.
Weiss has been getting 20 minutes or more of icetime as a #1 center and lots of PP time for awhile so can't really compare the two straight up. Just sayin. Filppula has been garbage all year though.

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Old
05-12-2013, 06:03 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by cupforwings09 View Post
But if we are replacing Filpula, he is a better center by far. He actually produces. We don't need a big physical center. But we do need big, physical wingers.
I agree that Weiss would be an upgrade over Filppula. In my opinion, the Wings need to get bigger and scrappier at every position, not just at wing, though a couple big, fast, tough, skillful wingers would be nice.

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05-12-2013, 06:04 PM
  #85
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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Viktor Stalberg ($2.750m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.788m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.788m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.605m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.050m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Brendan Smith ($0.827m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
Jared Coreau ($0.925m)

OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Kyle Quincey ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $54,819,754; BONUSES: $1,032,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $10,512,746

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05-12-2013, 06:05 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Sorry but I find it hilarious that you gripe so much about Abby playing in the top 6, then in all the roster suggestions you make for next year you lobby for Raffi ****ing torres to be a staple on Datsyuk's wing. Like Raffi Torres hasn't been used primarily as a bottom 6 player for most of his career. Why the love affair with Torres? I think he's a turd, but at least he's physical and gritty. I'd take him but definitely not as a linemate for Datsyuk, screw that...
You hit the nail on the head. Torres is nothing but a thuggier version of Abdelkader and not a solution as a Top-6 forward.

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05-12-2013, 06:12 PM
  #87
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If I was calling the shots.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Clarke MacArthur ($4.250m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.450m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.750m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Ryane Clowe ($4.000m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($2.000m) / Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Brendan Smith ($1.250m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
Jared Coreau ($0.925m)

OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Kyle Quincey ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,362,879; BONUSES: $1,032,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $1,969,621

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05-12-2013, 06:13 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupforwings09 View Post
Abby has been great. I prefer him on the bottom 2 lines, but I'm glad we have him. He's a good player.
You can honestly say he has been great in the top six?

He is a mediocre 4th line player. He is fake tough and has almost no hockey IQ and is offensively challenged.

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05-12-2013, 06:22 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
You can honestly say he has been great in the top six?

He is a mediocre 4th line player. He is fake tough and has almost no hockey IQ and is offensively challenged.
Did Abdelkader steal your girlfriend?

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05-12-2013, 06:25 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Kronwalled55 View Post
If I was calling the shots.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Clarke MacArthur ($4.250m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.450m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.750m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Ryane Clowe ($4.000m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($2.000m) / Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Brendan Smith ($1.250m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
Jared Coreau ($0.925m)

OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Kyle Quincey ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,362,879; BONUSES: $1,032,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $1,969,621
Tatar still in the A?

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05-12-2013, 06:33 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
You can honestly say he has been great in the top six?

He is a mediocre 4th line player. He is fake tough and has almost no hockey IQ and is offensively challenged.
Abdelkader has been solid in the top 6 after a bad start. He still finished with 10 goals (on pace for about 18), solid defensively, is consistently physical and a hard hitter that will fight. You can call him a fake tough guy all you want but its better than having no one who is even somewhat tough. Hes been really good in the playoffs as well. It seems to me he had an adjustment period from a guy whose job was to run around and hit to someone whose playing with one of the best centers going. I think hes filling the Holmstrom role pretty well now

Mediocre fourth line player is a joke and if you actually believe that garbage you know nothing about hockey.

As for some of you guys, Mccarty got bought out last lock out and he was a fan favourite who had a legit history with the team. I think Holland will definitely use both his buy outs. My guess is on Sammy who Tatar can replace and maybe Bertuzzi. Combine that with 4 guys probably walking away and the wings will have room to operate a bit and get the deserving young guys in.

Ferraro wont be ready for a full time gig yet but next year he might become the first call up with Sheahan. Maybe Jurco depending on how he starts too. Those guys should get some games over the course of the season but arent ready for the roster anyways

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05-12-2013, 06:35 PM
  #92
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Tatar still in the A?
On 2nd thought, I would probably have him take Eaves' spot. To be honest, I kind of forgot about him for a minute

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05-12-2013, 06:39 PM
  #93
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I have seen Abdelkader's hits and they remind me of somebody getting Charmin Ultra soft thrown at them.

The guy scored 50% of his goals in two games and had three assists over 48 games. How many of his goals were the result of Datsyuk just throwing it off of Gators' dumb***? It's not like Gator intentionally redirected the puck either. He just happened to exist. The guy is offensively challenged and he is in the top six. No defense respects him because they know how terrible he is.

He is a mediocre 4th line player. You could replace him with some random UFA to fill in the 4th line and you wouldn't notice any difference. Well you would notice the salary difference. The random UFA would make a lot less.

He is a brain dead bum who happens to be in Babcock's good graces which means he can do no wrong. See Danny Cleary.

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05-12-2013, 06:40 PM
  #94
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Again, I do not want Torres anywhere near this team, the guy is an utter scum bag. Clarkson will not be worth his contract at all. For what he contributes for some secondary offense and his grinding game, he will not be worth his contract he receives this summer. Iggy probably won't sign with us as evidenced by his choosing to go to Pittsburgh, and Horton is too oft injured for my taste. The only avenue worth pursuing of players mentioned in this thread as far as I'm concerned is Stephan Weiss. But Bob already addressed the concerns with bringing Weiss on board. Hopefully Cleary and Sammy are gone next year, Filppula too if the asking price is too high. I think Eaves is redundant, though he's had a good playoffs. Bring Tatar up, and I'm somewhat satisfied with our offense. As you are all aware of, we have way too many forwards.

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05-12-2013, 06:42 PM
  #95
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Torres has a far better scoring touch than Gator. I would take him over Gator in a heartbeat.

His physicality isn't worthless either.

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05-12-2013, 06:59 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Torres has a far better scoring touch than Gator. I would take him over Gator in a heartbeat.

His physicality isn't worthless either.
I don't want either on Datsyuk's line.

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05-12-2013, 07:08 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
The issues I have with Weiss is that

A) he is already 30. Can he still maintain that production? He also probably wants 5 years or more.

B) he is 511.

I haven't followed Florida too much the past few years so maybe he plays bigger than 5'11 but still.
Is the likelihood of his maintaining his production at 30 all that different from a guy who is 28?

I don't want to sign an old guy to a long term deal if we don't make any other moves, but I don't think we should tick guys off our list just because of their age. For instance, if we moved Quincey and CC, I'd be perfectly fine bringing in Gonchar. Nor would I be against signing Alfredsson or Jagr if we moved Sammy or Bert off the club.

I think the size thing has become too big of an issue, too. I think the physical play of the west is being overlooked just because it seems to have fewer fights. I'm not against adding someone with sand paper, but I'm more interested in just adding better players.

With Weiss specifically, I'd look at him if he was getting an injury discount. $5m and over, I'd look elsewhere. Of course, a lot probably depends what Holland is hearing behind closed doors about Datsyuk, and what Helm looks like heading into the summer. If Helm's back is still messed up, and/or Holland's been told that Datsyuk's a goner after next season (or both, which is really kinda scary), it wouldn't surprise me at all to see us go after a center just to have the depth.

My dark horse is Cullen from Minny on a short deal that might be a bit high in the money department just because we have the cap space. He's older, but he can do a bit of everything, play on a variety of lines, and he's good taking the draw. Not a pretty signing, but not necessarily a bad one.

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05-12-2013, 08:09 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Kronwalled55 View Post
If I was calling the shots.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Clarke MacArthur ($4.250m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.450m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.750m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Ryane Clowe ($4.000m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($2.000m) / Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Brendan Smith ($1.250m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
Jared Coreau ($0.925m)

OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Kyle Quincey ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,362,879; BONUSES: $1,032,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $1,969,621

Clarke MacArthur would be a nice addition to the Wings line-up.

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05-13-2013, 12:34 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I have seen Abdelkader's hits and they remind me of somebody getting Charmin Ultra soft thrown at them.

The guy scored 50% of his goals in two games and had three assists over 48 games. How many of his goals were the result of Datsyuk just throwing it off of Gators' dumb***? It's not like Gator intentionally redirected the puck either. He just happened to exist. The guy is offensively challenged and he is in the top six. No defense respects him because they know how terrible he is.

He is a mediocre 4th line player. You could replace him with some random UFA to fill in the 4th line and you wouldn't notice any difference. Well you would notice the salary difference. The random UFA would make a lot less.

He is a brain dead bum who happens to be in Babcock's good graces which means he can do no wrong. See Danny Cleary.
How about unassisted Abdelkader goal today? You must hate him because he did it and we won.

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05-13-2013, 07:16 AM
  #100
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If we can add another somewhat more proven scoring element upfront, preferably with size and toughness, who can play in our top 6 we will be in solid form

A big stay at home bottom pairing dman would be great but that would require moving probably both quincey and coliacovo out which is not likely to happen

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