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Old
05-18-2005, 03:25 PM
  #551
salzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Just don't bother arguing with this guy anymore. You aren't going to change his homered opinion- even when it is presented with facts.
The facts I presented 6 pages ago spoke for themselves. Nothing biased or homerish about it.

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05-18-2005, 03:40 PM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
Sundin's name is not mentioned in the article. So no need.
Wrong again:

The previously posted May 20, 1995, Toronto Star article title about Sundin and the Chicago series was:
Post-season play proves Sundin's heart in game

Quote from that article:
Although the Leafs struggled through the first round of the playoffs, Toronto forward Mats Sundin's performance removed any lingering doubts about his commitment to post-season play.

... going into last night, he led the team in scoring with five goals and three assists.


Doug Gilmour was the second highest scoring Leaf with six assists - three points behind Sundin (who finished with 5G, 4A, 9pts).

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05-18-2005, 04:05 PM
  #553
salzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleduc
Wrong again:
Nice try again. The original poster was referring to the USA today article (that doesn't mention Sundin):

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hock...05-09-njtor.htm

Now that I think about it, kinda fitting that Sundin wasn't even mentioned in an article about a Leafs game 7. Must've been another one of those dominant performances.

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05-18-2005, 04:11 PM
  #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
How does that compare to the stats he accumulates when it doesn't matter quite so much? NOT NEARLY GOOD ENOUGH. How's his W-L record?
oops, there's the admission of defeat.

your own game 7 stats have been turned against you, so time for a new strategy. because it's obviously the fault of one man and one man only when his team loses . If you expect a team captain to single handedly win or lose every game for you, you're putting way too much stock in one man and ignoring the rest of the team

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05-18-2005, 04:21 PM
  #555
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Close this already !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Completely off topic .

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Old
05-18-2005, 04:58 PM
  #556
salzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
oops, there's the admission of defeat.

your own game 7 stats have been turned against you, so time for a new strategy.
Not at all. Sundin's game 7 and elimination games stats in this thread have ALWAYS been about how they compare to his stats when the games aren't so big.

When you throw in his team's record in those games (since he's the leader), it's all the more damning. This isn't new material. I covered this in the post breaking out his game 7 and elimination game performances. I suppose I should have worded it "moreoever, how is their W-L record" in those games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
because it's obviously the fault of one man and one man only when his team loses . If you expect a team captain to single handedly win or lose every game for you, you're putting way too much stock in one man and ignoring the rest of the team
I'm not the one that gives Sundin all that credit, calls him Mr. Clutch, Captain clutch, compares him to the truly remarkable playoff players and so forth. If people are going to give him that kind of credit, than he needs to be subjected to that kind of blame.

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05-18-2005, 05:01 PM
  #557
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I'm not the one that gives Primeau all that credit, compares him to the truly remarkable playoff players and so forth. If people are going to give him that kind of credit, than he needs to be subjected to that kind of blame.



sorry Darth, I couldn't resist

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05-18-2005, 05:03 PM
  #558
cleduc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
Now that I think about it, kinda fitting that Sundin wasn't even mentioned in an article about a Leafs game 7. Must've been another one of those dominant performances.
The four goals and five assists by Sundin represented 50% of the Leafs offence against Martin Brodeur, Scott Stevens, Bobby Holik & Co - a good defensive team. Not too many NHL players have put up those sort of numbers against that group. The media at the time gave Sundin a lot of credit recognizing that the Leafs needed more depth.

Joe Sakic matched Sundin's numbers in the Cup final that year against that same Devils team. The differences were that he got a little more scoring help and a Conn Smythe performance from Patrick Roy. Sundin's numbers were good enough for Joe Sakic to win the Stanley Cup against the New Jersey Devils but obviously not good enough for the Sundin bashers.

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05-18-2005, 05:05 PM
  #559
salzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I'm not the one that gives Primeau all that credit, compares him to the truly remarkable playoff players and so forth. If people are going to give him that kind of credit, than he needs to be subjected to that kind of blame.
In Primeau's case it's the opposite. It takes an inordinate amount of blame for the amount of credit he's given.

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Old
05-18-2005, 05:06 PM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
In Primeau's case it's the opposite. It takes an inordinate amount of blame for the amount of credit he's given.

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Old
05-18-2005, 05:08 PM
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleduc
The four goals and five assists by Sundin represented 50% of the Leafs offence against Martin Brodeur, Scott Stevens, Bobby Holik & Co - a good defensive team.
Did he the great leader, the mighty Captain Clutch lead his team to a win or a loss in the deciding game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleduc
The media at the time gave Sundin a lot of credit recognizing that the Leafs needed more depth.
And yet his supporting cast was good enough for him to put up the regular season numbers he gets so much credit for

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Old
05-18-2005, 05:11 PM
  #562
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I've put a request through to get this thread locked. It's clear that most of us (myself included) have gone completely off topic in discussing the merits of Primeau vs Sundin.

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Old
05-18-2005, 05:16 PM
  #563
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Yeah, let's do that before we start throwing insults. I'm nipping this at the bud, and no one is going to change anyone's mind at this point. Everyone has made their point.

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