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Old
05-11-2005, 09:36 AM
  #1
Patty Lee
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Talks continue - trip delayed

could there be a 05-06 season after all? Or is the roller coaster just on the way back up and the inevitable down swing soon to follow?

Quote:
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and players' association executive director Bob Goodenow will hold labour negotiations Wednesday and Thursday instead of going to Austria for the world hockey championships.
link: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...80&hubName=nhl

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05-11-2005, 09:40 AM
  #2
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I got a little hopeful about a month ago, but I haven't heard anything remotely positive since then. I don't think they're even close to a deal right now. I think the NHL wants the meetings stepped up because they're under pressure from sponsors and they probably don't want a legal mess over the June 1/July 1 player deadlines.

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05-11-2005, 09:42 AM
  #3
Patty Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
I got a little hopeful about a month ago, but I haven't heard anything remotely positive since then. I don't think they're even close to a deal right now. I think the NHL wants the meetings stepped up because they're under pressure from sponsors and they probably don't want a legal mess over the June 1/July 1 player deadlines.
I'm in the same boat. not much hope, but the glimmer is there....

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05-11-2005, 10:22 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
I got a little hopeful about a month ago, but I haven't heard anything remotely positive since then. I don't think they're even close to a deal right now. I think the NHL wants the meetings stepped up because they're under pressure from sponsors and they probably don't want a legal mess over the June 1/July 1 player deadlines.
I agree on all accounts Pep .

They're not really close at all .. The NHLPA since this has begun has offered three unique proposals, all in an attempt to avoid a hard cap and particularly linkage. The NHL has taken all these proposals and tried to fit a square peg in a round hole by customizing them to read the same old same old Hard Cap and 54% linkage.

The NHLPA is simply attending meeting now on request of the NHL to avoid any possible claims and complaints of not wanting to bargain.

Personally I will be surprised if Goodenow ever accepts a Hard Cap with Linkage unless it is on their terms.

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05-11-2005, 10:37 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I agree on all accounts Pep .

They're not really close at all .. The NHLPA since this has begun has offered three unique proposals, all in an attempt to avoid a hard cap and particularly linkage. The NHL has taken all these proposals and tried to fit a square peg in a round hole by customizing them to read the same old same old Hard Cap and 54% linkage.

The NHLPA is simply attending meeting now on request of the NHL to avoid any possible claims and complaints of not wanting to bargain.

Personally I will be surprised if Goodenow ever accepts a Hard Cap with Linkage unless it is on their terms.
See, the thing is, they were supposedly negotiating off the players' framework of a team-by-team cap a month ago.

The owners look ridiculous right now IMO. They were offered a salary cap contract, they said no and cancelled the season. Now they've been offered salary cap and linkage based on revenues. That STILL isn't good enough!!

The NHL wants a hard cap of $35 million and they want to make sure it's real hard to even get that high. They're really not interested in any other arrangement, and I'm sure they would love to just say "this is our offer, let us know when you want to sign", and just walk away. Unfortunately the law requires that they at least APPEAR to be bargaining, and I guess that's what's happening at the moment.

Funny how the owners weren't interested in a luxury tax "of any kind or level"...until now, when they get to use it inside a hard cap. Then it's just great.

I think there's a good possibility this will go to impasse. No replacements, but the union will have to abide by the NHL's last offer at that point. Their response could be the "nuclear option", which is decertification. That at least would allow all the players to be free agents and choose where they want to go. As an option of last resort it's not too bad.

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05-11-2005, 11:07 AM
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IMHO I think a deal will be done.. but the PA wont agree to it until the free agency period has begun... They want to screw over the NHL just like there getting screwed in the CBA and thier money...

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05-11-2005, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
See, the thing is, they were supposedly negotiating off the players' framework of a team-by-team cap a month ago.

The owners look ridiculous right now IMO. They were offered a salary cap contract, they said no and cancelled the season. Now they've been offered salary cap and linkage based on revenues. That STILL isn't good enough!!

The NHL wants a hard cap of $35 million and they want to make sure it's real hard to even get that high. They're really not interested in any other arrangement, and I'm sure they would love to just say "this is our offer, let us know when you want to sign", and just walk away. Unfortunately the law requires that they at least APPEAR to be bargaining, and I guess that's what's happening at the moment.

Funny how the owners weren't interested in a luxury tax "of any kind or level"...until now, when they get to use it inside a hard cap. Then it's just great.

I think there's a good possibility this will go to impasse. No replacements, but the union will have to abide by the NHL's last offer at that point. Their response could be the "nuclear option", which is decertification. That at least would allow all the players to be free agents and choose where they want to go. As an option of last resort it's not too bad.
Agreed, numbers are nothing other then numbers, they only have meanings because we give them meanings, or in this case value.

Also if you belive some thing well enuogh, you relize it, and in turn that makes it real.

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05-11-2005, 11:58 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I agree on all accounts Pep .

They're not really close at all .. The NHLPA since this has begun has offered three unique proposals, all in an attempt to avoid a hard cap and particularly linkage. The NHL has taken all these proposals and tried to fit a square peg in a round hole by customizing them to read the same old same old Hard Cap and 54% linkage.

The NHLPA is simply attending meeting now on request of the NHL to avoid any possible claims and complaints of not wanting to bargain.

Personally I will be surprised if Goodenow ever accepts a Hard Cap with Linkage unless it is on their terms.
Agreed. Bettman or should you learn how to understand some one other then your self, are you that selfish, I at lest meet you half way.

lol and Daly, with your narrow mind you are left sided, only consider it is the right that is indeed right. Those 2 guys are completely incompetent.

Okay Translation of my Code, for you to guys maybe get a clue.

With your narrow mind you are left sided

You are still standing out side of the house. (Still in the wrong room, turn and face west)

Only consider it is the right that is indeed right

I am at the right and in side the house. (Right side of the house)

How real is my code, consider I am sitting in actuality here in the right side of my house compared to the sun. You see all that I say is real, only you don’t know my code, you do not know what is art, or love. The sharing of emotions, as this is the key, not the sharing of feelings, or thoughts as these lead to religion and war. The confusion of the truly language of life.

Consider it is your feelings that may lie, not your emotions, and if a feeling is fails so is the thought that will follow. I wish those NHL guys would clue in... the leafs deserve better treatment then this.

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05-11-2005, 12:00 PM
  #9
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PS: as I said, don’t matter any more what the NHL thinks, they have made this choice, not I, and in that I have said enough to try to provide an understanding, of what you cannot understand.

I can not accomplish what is imposable, as now it is clearly imposable, as the NHL have chosen to make it that way. so is it only choice? I will assume they will not understand this ether.

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05-11-2005, 12:56 PM
  #10
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Okay now. Rand? ThinkBlue? DLF? Please? When is enough enough?

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05-11-2005, 01:55 PM
  #11
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i can't believe people are still following this and trying to read between the lines of what they hear in the media.

i checked out of this back in november i think. just tell me when its over.

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Old
05-11-2005, 02:44 PM
  #12
Mess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
I think there's a good possibility this will go to impasse. No replacements, but the union will have to abide by the NHL's last offer at that point. Their response could be the "nuclear option", which is decertification. That at least would allow all the players to be free agents and choose where they want to go. As an option of last resort it's not too bad.
I think this option as you know is more likely then many think actually. " Blow it Up".

Take a look at this Link here Pep and read the NFL situation on Salary Caps and tell me if this could not be the NHLPA END GAME playbook ...

http://stats.bls.gov/opub/cwc/archive/spring1998art1.pdf

Back to the Old CBA until new deal is signed .. Total UFA for everyone and big market teams build real strong teams .. Old CBA no CAP to worry about .. Salaries as the report shows for the most part went up for players and the NFL was faced with a 200 mil + anti-trust lawsuits when the same lawyer the IMG has Hired pushed these cases through the courts ..

How is that lose situation for the NHLPA if history repeats itself and the NHL follows the NFL model and the courts get involved in settling this dispute ??

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05-11-2005, 04:30 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo_vodun
Okay Translation of my Code, for you to guys maybe get a clue.

With your narrow mind you are left sided

You are still standing out side of the house. (Still in the wrong room, turn and face west)

Only consider it is the right that is indeed right

I am at the right and in side the house. (Right side of the house)

How real is my code, consider I am sitting in actuality here in the right side of my house compared to the sun. You see all that I say is real, only you don’t know my code, you do not know what is art, or love. The sharing of emotions, as this is the key, not the sharing of feelings, or thoughts as these lead to religion and war. The confusion of the truly language of life.

Consider it is your feelings that may lie, not your emotions, and if a feeling is fails so is the thought that will follow. I wish those NHL guys would clue in...
Here is my Code : 1+1 = 2 Bingo

You undeniably have the greatest conclusively clandestine, surreptitiously mind numbingly irresponsible, outlandishly convoluted, unmitigated spasmodically inconsequential, unadulterated incomprehensible, catatonically nonsensical, completely irrational, utterly bi-polar, irrefutably preposterous, unreasonably incontestably ridiculously absurd, ludicrously unbelievable thought process I have ever witnessed.



No offense intended


Edited : for Clarity


Last edited by Mess: 05-11-2005 at 10:51 PM.
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Old
05-11-2005, 08:30 PM
  #14
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Why were they going to go to Austria anyways? It's not enough for these losers that they have been the center of attention of the hockey world this past winter. They got to pack up all their crap & put it on a plane to Austria to take attention away from people that are actually playing hockey games? Hey Bettman & Goodenow how about making a deal so the league you run doesn't go down the toilet like your careers......

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Old
05-11-2005, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
. . .
No offense intended
I can't imagine why anyone would take offense at that.

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05-11-2005, 09:56 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie
i can't believe people are still following this and trying to read between the lines of what they hear in the media.

i checked out of this back in november i think. just tell me when its over.
It pains me to say this but- I agree with Frankie. People are arguing about inneundo and rhetoric. Yawwnnnn. When they announce, "Game on," I'll allow myself to care again.

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05-11-2005, 10:00 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Here is my Code : 1+1 = 2 Bingo

You undeniably have the greatest conclusively clandestine, surreptitiously mind numbingly irresponsible, outlandishly convoluted, unmitigated spasmodically inconsequential, unadulterated incomprehensible, catatonically nonsensical, completely irrational, utterly bi-polar, irrefutably preposterous, unreasonably incontestable, ridiculously absurd, ludicrously unbelievable thought process I have ever witnessed.


No offense intended
I am enjoying this post. Further reading has led to the discovery that Bingo is, according to the ever-reliable Messenger, both unbelieveable and incontestable.

How mysterious!

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Old
05-11-2005, 10:48 PM
  #18
Mess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
I am enjoying this post. Further reading has led to the discovery that Bingo is, according to the ever-reliable Messenger, both unbelieveable and incontestable.

How mysterious!
That should be adverb-ized or Ajectiv-idly

ie .. incontestably unbelievable

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Old
05-12-2005, 12:07 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
That should be adverb-ized or Ajectiv-idly

ie .. incontestably unbelievable
who invited the don king twins?

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Old
05-12-2005, 09:18 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I think this option as you know is more likely then many think actually. " Blow it Up".

Take a look at this Link here Pep and read the NFL situation on Salary Caps and tell me if this could not be the NHLPA END GAME playbook ...

http://stats.bls.gov/opub/cwc/archive/spring1998art1.pdf

Back to the Old CBA until new deal is signed .. Total UFA for everyone and big market teams build real strong teams .. Old CBA no CAP to worry about .. Salaries as the report shows for the most part went up for players and the NFL was faced with a 200 mil + anti-trust lawsuits when the same lawyer the IMG has Hired pushed these cases through the courts ..

How is that lose situation for the NHLPA if history repeats itself and the NHL follows the NFL model and the courts get involved in settling this dispute ??
Back to the OLD CBA???

Nope, as the author noted, the two sides were at impasse for 5 years and operating under a unilateraly imposed CBA that included the "Plan B" amendment to free agency. The only reason the owners chose to operate from their OLD CBA was because it was so favourable to them. The fact that they were able to make unilateral changes, like Plan B, demonstrates that they were not confined by the terms of the CBA they previously operated under.

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Old
05-12-2005, 09:22 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Back to the OLD CBA???

Nope, as the author noted, the two sides were at impasse for 5 years and operating under a unilateraly imposed CBA that included the "Plan B" amendment to free agency.
I think we should get Ottawa involved, they could probably find some way to get money into the hands of the negotiating parties. Heck, they could throw a billion dollars to Goodenow. I can't see how a small market team like Ottawa got into a major league sport honestly anyway, so they probably already have the channels open for such activity.


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05-12-2005, 10:00 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by ULF_55
I think we should get Ottawa involved, they could probably find some way to get money into the hands of the negotiating parties. Heck, they could throw a billion dollars to Goodenow. I can't see how a small market team like Ottawa got into a major league sport honestly anyway, so they probably already have the channels open for such activity.
Get Ottawa involved?

Perhaps your referring to getting the corrupt Federal Lieberal Government that Toronto inflicts upon the country involved?

Please clarify.


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05-12-2005, 10:12 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Get Ottawa involved?

Perhaps your referring to getting the corrupt Federal Liberal Government that Toronto inflicts upon the country involved?

Please clarify.
I think his point is that Ottowa isn't large enough to support a team and that it shouldn't have one. I understand that it's a little harsh but it's true, we have to accept this reality, it is much like learning to think your happy is sad, only beyond your conscious mind, it is doing so in your soul with your emotions. this is why some times we get feelings that are not real, we think there real, when it is to understand and realize that is real, what is the feeling and thought from that emotions, if it is fails we know, we think, if it is real we feel. Meaning the feelings that are real have no words, man dose not know them any more. Hence it is imposable to explain the unimaginable only because it is before imagination.

It is this I have found words for, only it is beyond our current understandings. It is something that will be realized much latter in time quite possibly in a new life time.

E=mc2 & 1+1=2 not much to what is simple, other then the code for the book. Lol we just have so much fun, that we have to add more and more, just to keep our selves from having to work, it is fun to build sand castles in the sand, only careful the water will rise and will wash clear your castles. I only know that the castles are not build by men, but rather by the emotions of all life. I fear for you because the water is rising once again, only this time it is in our houses.

“The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and the rich will become poor, only the poor will always be the poor.” This will remain a reality for Ottawa... they will, for better or worse, stay poor no matter what agreement is reached.

“If you can find one, who has faith, and one who believes, and one who can love and love life, then I will not burn this city, I will let it stand all at the cost of the one. Only have them understand that this is the one, and that it is the one that has the fire that could burn it all down. My belly burns and my soul afire, only I will not burn, I hold the flame for you, so that you may find warmth, and comfort in what it is a live. His name was Jesus.” It's unfortunate that Ottawa will eventually lose it's team, I'm sure we all agree with that but why should the Leafs have to suffer longer in order to support teams that shouldn't exist?

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Old
05-12-2005, 10:55 AM
  #24
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When someone gets the Bingo_V code decipher ring, please do us all a favour and post a copy on the board.

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05-12-2005, 11:19 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
When someone gets the Bingo_V code decipher ring, please do us all a favour and post a copy on the board.
I always had a hard time remembering if it was Stephen R. Donaldson or Donald R. Stephenson.

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