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RJ Umberger vs. Justin Williams

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Old
05-11-2005, 07:23 AM
  #1
Duckz_fan85'
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RJ Umberger vs. Justin Williams

Hi Guys,

Just thought about it the other day...

i haven't seen any player comparisons between these two prospect...
these two guys were drafted only a year apart..but both selected from similar mid-late first round.

Umberger was selected in 2001 draft by Vancouver, as most of u guys know..

while

WIlliams was selected a year earlier in 2000 late in the 1st round.


Who has the highest potential and why?

Who do you guys think will end up being the better player?


Interestingly, from memory, Justin Williams made it into the big club pretty early, in the first year after he was drafted. Scored 40 points in 01-02..dropped off considerably since..playing only 40 or so games a season since then.

In Comparison, Umberger hasn't faced a AHL game before this season, let alone an NHL one. But he looks great so far in the AHL.

i'll be interested to see what every1 thinks..

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05-11-2005, 07:37 AM
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Justin Williams was rushed. I know he had a good rookie year, but he was rushed, and then when he began to struggle we couldn't send him down.

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05-11-2005, 07:53 AM
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IMO, the biggest difference between the two is that Umberger, at least at the AHL level, has shown that he is a finisher. I will be curious to see if he can do that at the NHL level as well.

On the other hand, Williams is one of the worst finishers that I have seen. He will make an amazing move and either shoot the puck right into the goalie's chest or miss the net entirely.

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05-11-2005, 08:42 AM
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I think ultimately they both are 3rd line players in the NHL.

Williams is all about the great move, speed and flash. He appears to work hard every shift, but does not have the elite skills needed to finish the moves he starts. He was rushed to the NHL, but I believe he eventually will work through those bugs. The worst thing and the best thing for him was playing for Hitch. His longevity in the game will be increased because he played for Hitch as he could become a Paul Ranheim who cannot finish, but due to his speed could become a Penalty Kill specialist. This will probably mean he moves around the NHL alot. Hitch was hard on him, and due to his age this destroyed his confidence. I see him as a 15-18 goal guy with maybe 25-30 assists. He will probably fight to stay healthy as the big defenseman in this league will really punish him.

I am hoping we learn some things about Umberger by currently having moved him to a shut-down line during the playoffs with the Phantoms. He is skilled enough to play in the NHL, but with the Flyers his line options are limited. If he is going to stay in Philly I would like to see him gain some muscle and refine his defensive game to the point that he could be our replacement for the role Primeau currently plays. As a 3rd liner, who will rarely see the Powerplay, I would guess his top point potential is 10-12 goals with 20-25 assists. He will play in the NHL, but will it be in Philly?

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05-11-2005, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFlyer
I think ultimately they both are 3rd line players in the NHL.

Williams is all about the great move, speed and flash. He appears to work hard every shift, but does not have the elite skills needed to finish the moves he starts. He was rushed to the NHL, but I believe he eventually will work through those bugs. The worst thing and the best thing for him was playing for Hitch. His longevity in the game will be increased because he played for Hitch as he could become a Paul Ranheim who cannot finish, but due to his speed could become a Penalty Kill specialist. This will probably mean he moves around the NHL alot. Hitch was hard on him, and due to his age this destroyed his confidence. I see him as a 15-18 goal guy with maybe 25-30 assists. He will probably fight to stay healthy as the big defenseman in this league will really punish him.

I am hoping we learn some things about Umberger by currently having moved him to a shut-down line during the playoffs with the Phantoms. He is skilled enough to play in the NHL, but with the Flyers his line options are limited. If he is going to stay in Philly I would like to see him gain some muscle and refine his defensive game to the point that he could be our replacement for the role Primeau currently plays. As a 3rd liner, who will rarely see the Powerplay, I would guess his top point potential is 10-12 goals with 20-25 assists. He will play in the NHL, but will it be in Philly?
If he isn't playing on a scoring line IMO he won't be effective, scoring is what he is best at, think he has a better upside because as previously stated he seems to know how to finish. If his top poitn potebtial is 10-12 goals that is a big disaapointment in my eyes.


Last edited by jb**: 05-11-2005 at 08:47 AM. Reason: spelling
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05-11-2005, 10:16 AM
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John Flyers Fan
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Justin Williams

Great Energy
Very good skater
Very good forechecker
Good penalty killer
Decent playmaker, will occasionally hold the puck too long
Very good slapshot
Poor wrist/snap shot
Needs to gain upper body strength

Upside - great 3rd line player, nice 2nd line player

R.J. Umberger

Very good in the corners and along the wall
Good playmaker
Good skater
Good size
Can finish
Kills penalties

Could become a 3rd line shutdown center, but IMO that wouldn't be using his offensive abilities.

Ideally he'll make the switch to wing and become top two line winger. After watching him on TV and in person I do not hold the belief that some do that if he isn't a top 6 forward he's worthless. He's excellent at using his size and strength to control the puck along the boards.

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05-11-2005, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan

Could become a 3rd line shutdown center, but IMO that wouldn't be using his offensive abilities.

Ideally he'll make the switch to wing and become top two line winger. After watching him on TV and in person I do not hold the belief that some do that if he isn't a top 6 forward he's worthless. He's excellent at using his size and strength to control the puck along the boards.
I agree with the top statement here John. It would not be able to utilize his offensive potential, but unless he moves to wing, I do not know what his options are at center - at least if he stays in Philly. Is he a fast enough skater to play wing in the new NHL? I hear a lot of people say how the game will be more about speed. Based on what everyone is seeing with the Phantoms, does anyone truly believe that he can play center and play on a higher line than Richards or Carter?

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05-11-2005, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFlyer
I agree with the top statement here John. It would not be able to utilize his offensive potential, but unless he moves to wing, I do not know what his options are at center - at least if he stays in Philly. Is he a fast enough skater to play wing in the new NHL? I hear a lot of people say how the game will be more about speed. Based on what everyone is seeing with the Phantoms, does anyone truly believe that he can play center and play on a higher line than Richards or Carter?
He'll have no problem moving to the wing IMO.

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05-11-2005, 02:49 PM
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Umberger would be the perfect compliment to carter for the reasons stated above. Carter is great and all but needs someone to go into the corners and dig out the garbage. For the juniors he was paired with Getzalf and look at the end result.

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05-11-2005, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
He'll have no problem moving to the wing IMO.
Do you think right or left wing?

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Old
05-11-2005, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFlyer
Do you think right or left wing?
He'll be a right winger. We currently lack depth at the position. You know something though, I'd like to see the Flyers go with a kid line. Put Gagne - Carter - Umberger all on the same line and see what they can do. It possibly can't be any worse than some of the others line on the team.

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05-13-2005, 05:52 PM
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Umberger should be close to the real deal. He's being
brought along the way former prospects in the Flyers system
weren't, though of course the lockout provides that luxury.
Williams for Markov was still a great deal, though. I'd still
pull the trigger on that one, anytime.

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Old
05-15-2005, 10:33 AM
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Richards will be the shut down center. He will also be the second line center (ala Butch Goring from the Isles dynasty) killing penalties, doing the defensive job on the other team's top line and adding offense. Umberger will be a defacto third line/two way center. All three young centers will get a lot of ice time eventually (if Umberger makes it, as we are assuming he will). If effect, when the Flyers need a shut down center, Richards will be the guy even though he will be rolling out with the line seeing the second most ice time.

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