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Top European NHL players of all time

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Old
05-29-2013, 06:05 PM
  #1
Not a NHL Scout
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Top European NHL players of all time

Just wanted to get your opinions on the top European players of all time in the NHL. And I mean European, not European born so guys like Mikita don't count.
Anyways since I dislike comparing forwards, defencemen and goalies i'll divide it into three categories. Name max 5/category
1. Forwards
Jaromir Jagr- Top Euro-scorer of all time. All the talent in the world.
Peter Forsberg- When he was at his best, there was no one better. A combination of work ethic and talent not matched since. Too bad his body couldn't take his playing style.
Teemu Selanne- Second most Euro-goals. Explosive goal scoring in the NHL since 1992 and still going strong.
Jari Kurri- 5 Stanleys. Benefitted from playing with 99 but still a great player. Underrated two-way play.
Sergei Fedorov- Skill, speed and superb two-way play. + he dated Anna Kournikova, thats gotta be a plus.
Honorable Mentions: Pavel Datsyk, Pavel Bure, Mats Sundin, Peter Stastny
2. Defencemen
Niklas Lidstrom- 7 Norris trophys. Need I say more?
Borje Salming- The first Euro-player in the NHL. Maple Leaf icon.
Zdeno Chara- The big guy has become probably the top shutdown defenceman in the game. Captained the Bruins to a long awaited Stanley.
Honorable Mentions: Teppo Numminen, Vladimir Konstantinov, Sergei Zubov, Slava Fetisov

3. Goalies
Pelle Lindbergh- Flyers hero and first European to win a Vezina. Tragic death cut career short.
Dominik Hasek- "The Dominator" is a 6-time Vezina winner. Proved that there are no stylepoints in goaltendind.
Miikka Kiprusoff- The Vezina-winner nearly singlehandedly dragged the Flames to the 04 Finals. Insanely good when on his game.
Honorable Mentions: Henrik Lundqvist, Pekka Rinne

Note: Players in no particular order

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Old
05-29-2013, 06:40 PM
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Four Boilermakers
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Even as a Flyers fan, Lundqvist should be ahead of Lindbergh. Lindbergh could have been Lundqvist if he hadn't met such a tragic end.

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05-29-2013, 07:58 PM
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Between Jagr and Hasek for me, with it going to Hasek cause he dominated goalie like none other I've seen/remember.

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05-29-2013, 08:37 PM
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Not the greatest, but perhaps the most underrated:

Jere Lehtinen

Tied with Pavel Datsyuk (for now) with 3 Selke Trophies. Only trails Bob Gainey and is also tied with Guy Carbonneau in this category. Pretty exclusive company.

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05-30-2013, 12:06 AM
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TAnnala
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Originally Posted by StrangeBrew13 View Post
Not the greatest, but perhaps the most underrated:

Jere Lehtinen

Tied with Pavel Datsyuk (for now) with 3 Selke Trophies. Only trails Bob Gainey and is also tied with Guy Carbonneau in this category. Pretty exclusive company.
Jere Lehtinen is horribly underrated but he don't belong in the same conversation as Kurri, Forsberg, Jagr etc.

Kurri and Selanne are higher than Forsberg if we put a lot emphasis on career. If we put a lot weight on peak Forsberg is clearly ahead of both.

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05-30-2013, 12:48 AM
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kmad
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How do you have Lindbergh ahead of Hasek?

Not counting bloc-era Soviets, top 3 is easily Hasek-Lidstrom-Jagr, in any order.

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05-30-2013, 01:02 AM
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Forwards

Kurri
Forsberg
Selanne
P. Stastny
Ovechkin

Defensemen

Lidstrom
Salming
Chara
Zubov
Gonchar

Goalies

Hasek
Kiprusoff
Lundqvist
Nabokov
Kolzig

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05-30-2013, 01:20 AM
  #8
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Forwards

Kurri
Forsberg
Selanne
P. Stastny
Ovechkin

Defensemen

Lidstrom
Salming
Chara
Zubov
Gonchar

Goalies

Hasek
Kiprusoff
Lundqvist
Nabokov
Kolzig
Missed Jagr.

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Old
05-30-2013, 01:46 AM
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RorschachWJK
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Forwards

Kurri
Forsberg
Selanne
P. Stastny
Ovechkin

Defensemen

Lidstrom
Salming
Chara
Zubov
Gonchar

Goalies

Hasek
Kiprusoff
Lundqvist
Nabokov
Kolzig
Insert Jagr. I think Numminen needs to be in the discussion at least.

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05-30-2013, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RorschachWJK View Post
Insert Jagr. I think Numminen needs to be in the discussion at least.
I would probably rather insert Timonen than Numminen in to the discussion. I know "repo-man" had a long career but Timonen was better on their best.

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05-30-2013, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Not a NHL Scout View Post
Honorable Mentions: Pavel Datsyk, Pavel Bure, Mats Sundin, Peter Stastny
Peter Stastny only as a Honorable Mentions?
The second most productive player of the 80-s? After the great one?

Btw. this list is very hard to make. Because you cant compare players from 1980s and 2000s ...

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05-30-2013, 04:06 AM
  #12
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by alko View Post
Peter Stastny only as a Honorable Mentions?
The second most productive player of the 80-s? After the great one?

Btw. this list is very hard to make. Because you cant compare players from 1980s and 2000s ...

Although Stastny has impressive scoring finishes. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 6th. But the fact that he never was a postseason all-star is quite telling. He however has three "3rd team all-star" selections. Considering the competition he faced in Gretzky and later Lemieux he is probably a bit underrated. But I am not sure if he is significantly better than Sundin. (Ok, he probably is a bit better)

Stastny suffers from the fact that he started his NHL career so late. In his rookie season he was 24.

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05-30-2013, 09:42 AM
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It's tough narrowing it down to 5 forwards. Only guy I would maybe switch Stastny for is Fedorov. But Fedorov at his best was arguably the best player in the game. He had a two-way game like no other. He even played defenceman for the Wings. I know he played on a loaded roster but still... I guess these come down personal opinion.

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05-30-2013, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Missed Jagr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not a NHL Scout View Post
It's tough narrowing it down to 5 forwards. Only guy I would maybe switch Stastny for is Fedorov. But Fedorov at his best was arguably the best player in the game.
Second in points, third in goals, first in ES points, Selke winner, Hart winner, Pearson winner, first-team all-star.

I'd say he was pretty indisputably the best in the league.

He had a two-way game like no other. He even played defenceman for the Wings.[/quote]

He did that with every team he played for.

The best European NHLers (this list is based on a combination of peak, prime, and career):

1|Dominik Hasek|G
2|Jaromir Jagr|RW
3|Nicklas Lidstrom|D
4|Sergei Fedorov|C/RW/D
5|Peter Forsberg|C/LW
6|Jari Kurri|RW/C
7|Alexander Ovechkin|LW/RW
8|Teemu Selanne|RW
9|Henrik Zetterberg|C/LW
10|Pavel Datsyuk|C/LW
11|Evgeni Malkin|C
12|Zdeno Chara|D
13|Ilya Kovalchuk|LW/RW
14|Peter Stastny|C
15|Sergei Zubov|D

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05-30-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Second in points, third in goals, first in ES points, Selke winner, Hart winner, Pearson winner, first-team all-star.

I'd say he was pretty indisputably the best in the league.

He had a two-way game like no other. He even played defenceman for the Wings.
He did that with every team he played for.

The best European NHLers (this list is based on a combination of peak, prime, and career):

1|Dominik Hasek|G
2|Jaromir Jagr|RW
3|Nicklas Lidstrom|D
4|Sergei Fedorov|C/RW/D
5|Peter Forsberg|C/LW
6|Jari Kurri|RW/C
7|Alexander Ovechkin|LW/RW
8|Teemu Selanne|RW
9|Henrik Zetterberg|C/LW
10|Pavel Datsyuk|C/LW
11|Evgeni Malkin|C
12|Zdeno Chara|D
13|Ilya Kovalchuk|LW/RW
14|Peter Stastny|C
15|Sergei Zubov|D[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry that he may be a bit before your time, but Borje Salming belongs in your top 10. In no way shape or form do Chara or Zubov need to be listed over Salming. He is probably at least #7 on this list. He was the man on a crappy team for many years and routinely in their top 3-5 in scoring. Not quite Lidstrom, but not too far behind. Kind of like Lidstrom with some Konstantinov in him. Just a stellar passer and defender....

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05-30-2013, 11:51 AM
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How Peter Stasney was brought into Canada was cloak and Dagger.It risked jail for people caught.As for Salming he was slashed and players took cheap shots at him because he was swedish and most canadian players did not take kindly to him

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05-30-2013, 12:27 PM
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Does Bob Nystrom count? He was born in Sweden.

Anyway, forwards are:
Jagr, Ovechkin, Forsberg, Malkin, Fedorov - all Hart Trophy winners (so no Kurri or Selanne).

Blueliners:
Lidstrom, Chara, Konstantinov, Numminen, Fetisov.

Netminders:
Hasek, Kiprusoff, Khabibulin, Kolzig, Lindbergh.

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05-30-2013, 12:29 PM
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Does Bob Nystrom count? He was born in Sweden.
He counts as a European NHLer. But nowhere near the best of all time.

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05-30-2013, 12:32 PM
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Peter Bondra, Evgeni Nabokov, Pelle Lindbergh

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05-30-2013, 01:21 PM
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First Team AS All-Time:

Ovechkin-Forsberg-Jagr
Lidstrom-Chara
Hasek

For me, each guy is clearly, if not significantly, better than anyone knocking on his door to take his place.

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05-30-2013, 01:25 PM
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i think gonchar is forgotten here, great player...

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05-30-2013, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Although Stastny has impressive scoring finishes. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 6th. But the fact that he never was a postseason all-star is quite telling. He however has three "3rd team all-star" selections. Considering the competition he faced in Gretzky and later Lemieux he is probably a bit underrated. But I am not sure if he is significantly better than Sundin. (Ok, he probably is a bit better)

Stastny suffers from the fact that he started his NHL career so late. In his rookie season he was 24.
Correct. It tells us he was greatly overlooked. It tells us there was a clear bias going on at that time. It tells us how bogus the voting can be.

Stastny should have at least a couple 2nd Team All Star selections - and that's coming 2nd only to Gretzky. He's one of the most overlooked and underrated players ever.

Had he began at age 19 or 20, he'd be in the top 10 scoring of all-time. And yes that's taking in to account the learning curve as a 19-20 year old. Then he'd maybe get the credit and attention he deserves. It's a crime he's talked about so little and overlooked so often.

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05-30-2013, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
I'm sorry that he may be a bit before your time, but Borje Salming belongs in your top 10. In no way shape or form do Chara or Zubov need to be listed over Salming. He is probably at least #7 on this list. He was the man on a crappy team for many years and routinely in their top 3-5 in scoring. Not quite Lidstrom, but not too far behind. Kind of like Lidstrom with some Konstantinov in him. Just a stellar passer and defender....
Salming sort of fell into a "pocket" with a few other guys I wanted to put on the list, but who didn't play long enough at a high enough level in the NHL to justify it. Some others in the group included are Mats Sundin, Vladimir Kontantinov, Slava Fetisov, Sergei Makarov, and Igor Larionov.

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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
Correct. It tells us he was greatly overlooked. It tells us there was a clear bias going on at that time. It tells us how bogus the voting can be.

Stastny should have at least a couple 2nd Team All Star selections - and that's coming 2nd only to Gretzky. He's one of the most overlooked and underrated players ever.

Had he began at age 19 or 20, he'd be in the top 10 scoring of all-time. And yes that's taking in to account the learning curve as a 19-20 year old. Then he'd maybe get the credit and attention he deserves. It's a crime he's talked about so little and overlooked so often.
What years. exactly, should Stastny have been 2nd AS? The 1982-83 season is the only one I can see where he has a legitimate shot at the 2C and isn't competing with an all-time great center in their prime (Dionne, Trottier). Instead, he only had to compete with Denis Savard.


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05-30-2013, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
What years. exactly, should Stastny have been 2nd AS? The 1982-83 season is the only one I can see where he has a legitimate shot at the 2C and isn't competing with an all-time great center in their prime (Dionne, Trottier). Instead, he only had to compete with Denis Savard.
Indeed. Unfortunately Denis Savard had some bad timing and great opposition at center so he never played for the national team. If he had, he probably would have been seen as just as good as Stastny. If not his extensive playoff record is enough allready.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
Correct. It tells us he was greatly overlooked. It tells us there was a clear bias going on at that time. It tells us how bogus the voting can be.

Stastny should have at least a couple 2nd Team All Star selections - and that's coming 2nd only to Gretzky. He's one of the most overlooked and underrated players ever.

Had he began at age 19 or 20, he'd be in the top 10 scoring of all-time. And yes that's taking in to account the learning curve as a 19-20 year old. Then he'd maybe get the credit and attention he deserves. It's a crime he's talked about so little and overlooked so often.
You seem to think he was second to Gretzky in the eighties by a wide margin. And you forget that he had the perfect timing coming into the league at age 24 in 1980-81. Other players was'nt so lucky and he would'nt been second to Gretzky if they were.

And oh, you're heavily biased.


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05-30-2013, 11:12 PM
  #25
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Salming sort of fell into a "pocket" with a few other guys I wanted to put on the list, but who didn't play long enough at a high enough level in the NHL to justify it.
1973/74 through 1989/90 in the NHL isnt long enough? He more than belongs on the list, heck, Id rank him right up there as one of the greatest defenceman to have ever played.

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