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Bernier trade in offseason?

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Old
06-03-2013, 08:45 PM
  #426
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To afford Versteeg we will probably have to let both Scuderi and Penner go, and still barely have enough cap space to re-sign our young guys. I'd personally prefer to keep Scuderi.

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06-03-2013, 09:50 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
To afford Versteeg we will probably have to let both Scuderi and Penner go, and still barely have enough cap space to re-sign our young guys. I'd personally prefer to keep Scuderi.
That's very true, and I too would like to see the Kings retain Scuderi over the next couple seasons (a Regehr like extension would be perfect). While I have confidence in Toffoli to step into a top six role, I think he's demonstrated that he really is a significantly better player when he's playing RW as opposed to LW. It's that reason why I think the Kings need to address their need for a LW who can score.

The Kings would certainly have to move some salary in order to fit a player with the cap hit that Versteeg comes with, but I think it is manageable if they move some redundant players off the roster.

I think adding another top six forward in addition to Toffoli becoming a regular in the lineup would give the Kings some offensive depth that spreads throughout all four lines, which is what successful teams have in the playoffs (as seen with the Bruins and Hawks this season).

A hypothetical lineup on offense with the suggested changes could look like this:

Pearson-Kopitar-Williams
Versteeg-Carter-Toffoli
Clifford-Richards-Brown
King/Nolan-Stoll-Lewis
Fraser

That type of depth is what this team needs to go to battle against a team that has the depth the Hawks have. And for those who want to get an idea of what the Bruins depth looks like, these are the lines they're rolling with:

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Jagr
Peverley-Kelly-Seguin
Paille-Campbell-Thornton

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06-03-2013, 10:03 PM
  #428
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Versteeg is a player I would make room for. We need a Left Winger badly. If the opportunity arises, you trim the salary fat.

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06-03-2013, 10:38 PM
  #429
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Versteeg is a player I would make room for. We need a Left Winger badly. If the opportunity arises, you trim the salary fat.
I was pulling for the Flyers to trade for him in 2011 and was elated when he got here, only that we found out post season he came with a sports hernia. Despite that, he was great with Richards and despite being hurt, played his ass off especially against Buffalo in the playoffs.
Richards (who was also hurt and just off pneumonia ) and Versteeg were used against the Sabres top line who were the highest scoring line in the league at that time) and held Vanek's line to 1 ES goal in 7 games. They were on the ice for 7 Flyer goals, which lead the team and only 1 going the other way. They were terrific. But since defense isn't sexy to write about, Briere got the ink because he scored 6 (and gave up 5 going the other way but they don't talk about that).
I like Versteeg and he'd be a perfect fit on the 2nd line, he and Richie really had a good connection.
Just a shame he seems to pick up injuries.

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06-03-2013, 10:40 PM
  #430
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Pens should be all over Bernier this summer

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06-03-2013, 10:52 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Pens should be all over Bernier this summer
What would they give us?

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06-03-2013, 10:53 PM
  #432
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^ We'd be calling the shots in that trade.

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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
I was pulling for the Flyers to trade for him in 2011 and was elated when he got here, only that we found out post season he came with a sports hernia. Despite that, he was great with Richards and despite being hurt, played his ass off especially against Buffalo in the playoffs.
Richards (who was also hurt and just off pneumonia ) and Versteeg were used against the Sabres top line who were the highest scoring line in the league at that time) and held Vanek's line to 1 ES goal in 7 games. They were on the ice for 7 Flyer goals, which lead the team and only 1 going the other way. They were terrific. But since defense isn't sexy to write about, Briere got the ink because he scored 6 (and gave up 5 going the other way but they don't talk about that).
I like Versteeg and he'd be a perfect fit on the 2nd line, he and Richie really had a good connection.
Just a shame he seems to pick up injuries.
Versteeg - Richards - Carter... WOWZA!

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06-03-2013, 11:05 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Pens should be all over Bernier this summer
they dont have a first to give us or the top 6 wing I honestly dont see a fit with us an pens.

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Old
06-03-2013, 11:08 PM
  #434
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Anyone thinking that Toffoli can play left wing is simply and completely wrong. It has been tried and failed. It is like saying "we should move DD up to LW, we have plenty of pmd's".

Every player can't simply swap positions.

Toffoli is a RW. That is that.

However, we have Kitsyn and Pearson both ready to step up or close to it for their shots at taking a top 6 LW job. We have Andy A ready to fill in a bottom 6 position and give us muscle along with solid two way play. We have Vey ready to step in and play as our 3rd line center if needed (though he is suited better to being a second line center and should be there eventually).

We have kids who can fill the openings we have at least as well as the players who have done so this season.

If we add a LW for our top 6 which I think we could do I would look for a solid two way player with proven good, not great skill. Unless we move another player along the way to make room.

There are a couple of UFA's that we might be looking at and a couple of trades that have been being rumored for a bit now but nothing is done until it happens imo. I think that best idea that keeps surfacing around here would be our targeting Read from Philly if at all possible.

He can obviously play but he is an easy fit to our system and if he were given dedicated time with top 6 caliber players I think he could develop into a 25g per season scorer without too much effort.

Its going to be a very interesting offseason for sure.

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06-03-2013, 11:12 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
That's very true, and I too would like to see the Kings retain Scuderi over the next couple seasons (a Regehr like extension would be perfect). While I have confidence in Toffoli to step into a top six role, I think he's demonstrated that he really is a significantly better player when he's playing RW as opposed to LW. It's that reason why I think the Kings need to address their need for a LW who can score.

The Kings would certainly have to move some salary in order to fit a player with the cap hit that Versteeg comes with, but I think it is manageable if they move some redundant players off the roster.

I think adding another top six forward in addition to Toffoli becoming a regular in the lineup would give the Kings some offensive depth that spreads throughout all four lines, which is what successful teams have in the playoffs (as seen with the Bruins and Hawks this season).

A hypothetical lineup on offense with the suggested changes could look like this:

Pearson-Kopitar-Williams
Versteeg-Carter-Toffoli
Clifford-Richards-Brown
King/Nolan-Stoll-Lewis
Fraser

That type of depth is what this team needs to go to battle against a team that has the depth the Hawks have. And for those who want to get an idea of what the Bruins depth looks like, these are the lines they're rolling with:

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Jagr
Peverley-Kelly-Seguin
Paille-Campbell-Thornton
I agree with your analysis, but it may be premature to put Pearson
there. I am hoping he is ready. However, I am so done with King and Fraser forever. I am also done with Penner. He just doesn't have it, anymore. Occasionally stepping up for a few shifts in the playoffs, doesn't warrant another 5 goal, 12 point season. I would like to see Fraser and King replaced with someone from the outside and also give Andy Andreoff a shot. I don't think they put Stoll at 4th line - they won't pay 3 mil (?) for a 4th line ctr. I bet Vey or Nick Shore would be good there. How could they be worse than Fraser?

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Old
06-03-2013, 11:34 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Peter James Bond View Post
I agree with your analysis, but it may be premature to put Pearson
there. I am hoping he is ready. However, I am so done with King and Fraser forever. I am also done with Penner. He just doesn't have it, anymore. Occasionally stepping up for a few shifts in the playoffs, doesn't warrant another 5 goal, 12 point season. I would like to see Fraser and King replaced with someone from the outside and also give Andy Andreoff a shot. I don't think they put Stoll at 4th line - they won't pay 3 mil (?) for a 4th line ctr. I bet Vey or Nick Shore would be good there. How could they be worse than Fraser?
I think we are going to see Pearson start the season with the team next season. He might be being a little bit rushed but he is really close. If he is protected and brought in correctly I could see him making his mark next season.

Fraser won't be brought back neither will Richardson. One of our D will get moved too. It is going to be an interesting off season.

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06-03-2013, 11:37 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Anyone thinking that Toffoli can play left wing is simply and completely wrong. It has been tried and failed. It is like saying "we should move DD up to LW, we have plenty of pmd's".

Every player can't simply swap positions.

Toffoli is a RW. That is that.

However, we have Kitsyn and Pearson both ready to step up or close to it for their shots at taking a top 6 LW job. We have Andy A ready to fill in a bottom 6 position and give us muscle along with solid two way play. We have Vey ready to step in and play as our 3rd line center if needed (though he is suited better to being a second line center and should be there eventually).

We have kids who can fill the openings we have at least as well as the players who have done so this season.

If we add a LW for our top 6 which I think we could do I would look for a solid two way player with proven good, not great skill. Unless we move another player along the way to make room.

There are a couple of UFA's that we might be looking at and a couple of trades that have been being rumored for a bit now but nothing is done until it happens imo. I think that best idea that keeps surfacing around here would be our targeting Read from Philly if at all possible.

He can obviously play but he is an easy fit to our system and if he were given dedicated time with top 6 caliber players I think he could develop into a 25g per season scorer without too much effort.

Its going to be a very interesting offseason for sure.
don't understand why people keep thinking the staff can throw TT over on LW and it solves everything. most guys can't ever adapt to the change. they've played for years up-down a lane and their game is built on this. you don't just one day flip them to the other side and expect them to click. suddenly passing lanes, teammates fore-backhands are now the opposite of what it was, their stick changes to on/off boards, etc.

TT isn't skating LW next year and won't anytime soon. in time he will take over either the #1 or #2 RW role, depending on where they slot Carter. for now i think his presence on the #3 or #4 is a good thing as he learns the defensive responsibilities more intricately and brings a scoring touch on the bottom lines.

as bad as this weekend turned out and as tough as the entire POs have been to watch at times. it makes the upcoming summer months more bearable knowing that Dean and Darryl will have some tinkering to do over the summer, that is going to reshape this team. a change that i think is the beginning of the next core of the Kings and Dean's Kings v2.

all the guys set to move up now are 100% DL and Futa picks. all of these guys have been in and part of the culture they have built. credit also has to go to Hextall and Morris for what they have done in MAN to create a cohesive structure that helps the transition and allows guys to slot in a bit easier.

the team right now is literally for the first time ever at the point of putting out a team that is 'homemade'. to know the team now has 'options' up and down the roster is a comforting feeling. the team has struggled this post season and to me they look gassed - both physically and emotionally. it's a great feeling to know that this roster will be overhauled and improved over the next summers, without a GM having to squander picks or make some ridiculous FA signings.

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Old
06-03-2013, 11:40 PM
  #438
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Pens fan here. Name your terms for Bernier.

You can have Letang. Probably could turn him around for something else.

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06-03-2013, 11:45 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
don't understand why people keep thinking the staff can throw TT over on LW and it solves everything. most guys can't ever adapt to the change. they've played for years up-down a lane and their game is built on this. you don't just one day flip them to the other side and expect them to click. suddenly passing lanes, teammates fore-backhands are now the opposite of what it was, their stick changes to on/off boards, etc.

TT isn't skating LW next year and won't anytime soon. in time he will take over either the #1 or #2 RW role, depending on where they slot Carter. for now i think his presence on the #3 or #4 is a good thing as he learns the defensive responsibilities more intricately and brings a scoring touch on the bottom lines.

as bad as this weekend turned out and as tough as the entire POs have been to watch at times. it makes the upcoming summer months more bearable knowing that Dean and Darryl will have some tinkering to do over the summer, that is going to reshape this team. a change that i think is the beginning of the next core of the Kings and Dean's Kings v2.

all the guys set to move up now are 100% DL and Futa picks. all of these guys have been in and part of the culture they have built. credit also has to go to Hextall and Morris for what they have done in MAN to create a cohesive structure that helps the transition and allows guys to slot in a bit easier.

the team right now is literally for the first time ever at the point of putting out a team that is 'homemade'. to know the team now has 'options' up and down the roster is a comforting feeling. the team has struggled this post season and to me they look gassed - both physically and emotionally. it's a great feeling to know that this roster will be overhauled and improved over the next summers, without a GM having to squander picks or make some ridiculous FA signings.
True true.

I would also add that we don't have room for a few of our kids and that only adds to our depth. Forbort is close. I would say a season in the AHL and then start giving him spot call ups. Gravel is more ready but will likely be here in two seasons. Deslauriers came a long way and by the end of this coming season will either make the team as a call up or be moved. He is ready to start spot NHL duty though.

Then we have Kozun who should be with the team today. I know there are those who disagree with me and I understand why but I disagree. He plays with heart fire and has exceptional hands. I would so much rather see his grit on our 4th line with Nolan centering then what we have seen this season.

Andy A is close to ready (I think he is but if he isn't he is very close) and Shore needs one season in MCH before he is ready to step in and dominate. Throw Vey into the mix and we are looking deep and good and I am leaving several excellent young players off the list.

Gonna be a good summer. I think we will see a seriously improved team next season too.

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06-03-2013, 11:46 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by KHstrike View Post
Pens fan here. Name your terms for Bernier.

You can have Letang. Probably could turn him around for something else.
LOL. I just don't think we are good trade partners. You don't have a first round pick and don't have the left wing we would be looking for

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06-03-2013, 11:47 PM
  #441
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Pens fan here. Name your terms for Bernier.

You can have Letang. Probably could turn him around for something else.
Was thinking BB would be around market value...to bad he is a RW to

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06-03-2013, 11:48 PM
  #442
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Pens fan here. Name your terms for Bernier.

You can have Letang. Probably could turn him around for something else.
We are looking for a LW that can play on our top 6 and more depending on who the player is. If he is a top prospect then we are looking for a 3rd or 4rth rd pick. The value of the pick depends on the value of the player we get in return (if the player is good enough then the price good be right there).

I am not familiar enough with the Pens up and coming LW prospects but your best one would be were we would want to start.

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06-04-2013, 12:00 AM
  #443
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This guy maybe?

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06-04-2013, 12:04 AM
  #444
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He hates that avy

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06-04-2013, 12:08 AM
  #445
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Pens fan here. Name your terms for Bernier.

You can have Letang. Probably could turn him around for something else.
James Neal

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06-04-2013, 01:17 AM
  #446
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James Neal
That's the right answer.

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06-04-2013, 01:19 AM
  #447
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James Neal

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06-04-2013, 01:55 AM
  #448
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Still pulling for Eriksson.

Kopitar - Eriksson - Toffoli
Richards - Brown - Carter


Nasty top 6

I love Williams, I love Bernier but I would trade them along with Muzzin/Martinez to bring in Eriksson. Bernier to Edm, Pitts, NYI etc for pices to throw at Dallas for Eriksson

Unless Phx wants Bernier and we can pry Hanzel outta there clutches

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06-04-2013, 03:25 AM
  #449
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Hmm James Neal for Bernier. Honestly? I wouldn't mind that. Neal is a big guy who plays the softest perimeter hockey you've ever seen. Aside from 1 game, he's been invisible all playoffs. He's left Malkin to do absolutely everything for that line. He has a phenomenal shot with possibly the fastest release in the league, but if he's not being fed the puck exactly where he needs it, then it's no good.

With Letang though. I figure you could shop him for whatever you would want. He doesn't have a slap shot, but is the best dman in the league off the rush. Great breakout pass, but does give it away a bit too much. Gets frustrated easily. But teams will want him and will give what YOU want for him.

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06-04-2013, 08:33 AM
  #450
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Drooling for Drouin

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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I could see the Avs trading down the 1st pick for the 3rd or 4rth pick and then moving that pick to us. Avs get JB plus plus whatever else they get by moving down. I don't think DL will make that sort of move but if he likes Dro as much as he is said to you never know. Doubtful but you never know.
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Dro as in Drouin? Would be pretty surprising with guys like Jones, MacKinnon, Barkov, Nichuskin, Lindholm, Monahan in this draft that DL fell in love with Drouin. Drouin I think projects a bit like Patrick Kane, great great player but not exactly in the Kings mold when you consider the other guys available at the top of this draft.
Yes on Jonathan Drouin. I hope Dean Lombardi is indeed high on the kid with him being his top target in the draft as DL has a knack for moving up for targeted prospects. I don't necessarily want the #1 overall pick as long as it's top 3 overall. Drouin is my personal favorite in the draft but settling for either Seth Jones or Nathan MacKinnon wouldn't be a travesty. nki is right, JD is not the type of prospect the organization and scouting staff have drafted and developed over the years, but that is exactly the point, the team needs someone exactly like him to fill their top six, particularly at LW, which the kid plays.

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Originally Posted by Peter James Bond View Post
That is interesting. The Avs trade #1 for #3 plus something and send the #3 overall + Giguere (has 1.5 mil for 13/14) to the Kings for Bernier, (Ellerby or Martinez, or Muzzin)

I am sure some think Bernier is not worth that, but he may be the best goalie in the world, who is not an NHL #1. Having the second best GAA this year was not a fluke. And he's just entering his prime.
I'm hopeful a package of Bernier, Clifford, A. Martinez, and a 3rd round pick is enough to secure a top 3 pick. The Kings can easily absorb the loss to the bottom 6 and 3rd defensive pairing as we have plenty of depth in those areas, not to mention that the team seems to specialize in finding these type of players throughout the draft.

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