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The Out of Town Thread part LVIII - All Talk From Around the League Here

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Old
05-14-2013, 03:34 PM
  #926
HiggsBozon
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
So much wrong in one post. Plekanec has been our best and most consistent forward for years, and he was again this year. He's the only one that can shut down opposing first lines effectively, and he does so with dead weight like Ryder, and to a certain extent Gionta on his line. He doesn't shy away from contact, but is intelligent enough not to get destroyed all the time like Desharnais.

Also, Prust is 6"2.
You start off by saying, in an arrogant fashion, "so much wrong in that post", and you end up with an idiocy of the kind? (Prust is 6'2)

Where have I said Plekanec is not consistent? Where have I said he played like crap? People put words in my mouth around here... saying I think we should envy/praise the Leafs and that I said Plekanec was ****. The fact is, Plekanec is not playing a physical kind of hockey. Just like Jagr, probably the best European to ever play the game, doesn't specifically a physical kind of hockey. Doesn't take anything away from those players. But none of you guys will make me believe Plekanec is always in the dirty areas and sacrificing his body as much as guys like Prust and Gallagher. That's not his style, that's not it's game, and it's all right. That also means he's less likely to get injured too.

And everyone knows it's a miracle by itself that Gallagher didn't get hurt the way he plays and that he's ALWAYS the only one to play this way on his line.

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Old
05-14-2013, 03:41 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by 13Hockey View Post
Just wondering from another fan base what there predictions for Bruins Rags is

I'm a huge homer but I got the Rags are defense is getting depleted and Henrik owns the B's

Rags in 7
I say the Bruins win it in 5 games. You guys have a more balanced offense. D might be an issue, but I'm not underrating Rask. If a team can make its weaknesses less obvious, it's the Bruins.

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05-14-2013, 03:42 PM
  #928
Rosso Scuderia
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The dumbest part is we beat Boston 3/4 during the season. Not saying we'd have beaten them, but saying "we have no chance" is moronic, especially the way the Boston defense is falling like a deck of cards.
Pretty much.

Anderson is the guy that beat us. If we faced Rask who is something like 1-9 against us in his career, I think our chances were pretty good to beat them.

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05-14-2013, 03:45 PM
  #929
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Old
05-14-2013, 03:54 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Pretty much.

Anderson is the guy that beat us. If we faced Rask who is something like 1-9 against us in his career, I think our chances were pretty good to beat them.
Saying we would probably not have won is moronic, still, saying our chances were very good to beat them is not?

By the way, I don't agree with neither of those two sentences.

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05-14-2013, 04:05 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
So much wrong in one post. Plekanec has been our best and most consistent forward for years, and he was again this year. He's the only one that can shut down opposing first lines effectively, and he does so with dead weight like Ryder, and to a certain extent Gionta on his line. He doesn't shy away from contact, but is intelligent enough not to get destroyed all the time like Desharnais.

Also, Prust is 6"2.
No, he's not. The sites have incorrect information about a lot of players, and Prust is one of them. He is around 6 feet tall.

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Old
05-14-2013, 04:11 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Every summer it's the same story in this fandom:

"Next year when our injured players come back we'll be a better team".

At some point we have to accept that we have structural problems, that increase injury risk. I'm not sure what those are, but every summer people say "The Habs were just unlucky last year", but it is not luck if the same thing happens nearly every year.

We're not winning squat until we solve our injury problem.
Bingooo! People talk about bad luck. It's clearly not luck. It's not even a trend. It's an inevitability. When the games get intense and physical, we have character but it's fleeting. Our guys get worn down and hurt by it. This was our excuse for losing to the Canes in 2006 cause Koivu got sticked in the eye then we blamed injuries for getting swept in 2009 by Boston. We managed to win in 2010 despite Markov's torn ACL, injuries to guys like Gill and Spacek at times. Not a ton of injuries thankfully. 2011 we were decimated and said we'll be better next year without injuries. Well next year was a lost one but in 2013 we got back and again injuries are the wild card. Well when the hell will we be the healthy team?

Habs were fortunate with that from 2003-08 but since then have gone back to injury proneness. Gotta find a team that can take the punishment and/or dish out more of it than they take. When's the last time the Habs won a war of attrition in a playoff series with the other team's guys dropping due to injury? 2008 vs. Boston? I wish we were like the 80s Habs. They understood toughness and size mattered, although Savard's drafts went too far to try and get that magical power forward. But since he left, the smurf mentality has been proven ineffective over and over but Houle, A. Savard, Gainey and Gauthier all seemed to find it ok. In fact Gauthier seemed to care more about grit than the others!

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05-14-2013, 04:16 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by scrowe21 View Post
No, he's not. The sites have incorrect information about a lot of players, and Prust is one of them. He is around 6 feet tall.
5'11, 194 lbs

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Old
05-14-2013, 04:20 PM
  #934
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Hab-a-maniac View Post
Bingooo! People talk about bad luck. It's clearly not luck. It's not even a trend. It's an inevitability. When the games get intense and physical, we have character but it's fleeting. Our guys get worn down and hurt by it. This was our excuse for losing to the Canes in 2006 cause Koivu got sticked in the eye then we blamed injuries for getting swept in 2009 by Boston. We managed to win in 2010 despite Markov's torn ACL, injuries to guys like Gill and Spacek at times. Not a ton of injuries thankfully. 2011 we were decimated and said we'll be better next year without injuries. Well next year was a lost one but in 2013 we got back and again injuries are the wild card. Well when the hell will we be the healthy team?

Habs were fortunate with that from 2003-08 but since then have gone back to injury proneness. Gotta find a team that can take the punishment and/or dish out more of it than they take. When's the last time the Habs won a war of attrition in a playoff series with the other team's guys dropping due to injury? 2008 vs. Boston? I wish we were like the 80s Habs. They understood toughness and size mattered, although Savard's drafts went too far to try and get that magical power forward. But since he left, the smurf mentality has been proven ineffective over and over but Houle, A. Savard, Gainey and Gauthier all seemed to find it ok. In fact Gauthier seemed to care more about grit than the others!
The injuries that killed us had nothing to do with being small or getting punished. Emelin got hurt throwing a hit. Price got hurt making a save. Gionta's arm got tangled.

Boston has a huge defense and like 3 of them(Seidenberg Ference Redden) are currently out.

Guys like Pronger E.Lindros B.Lindros are huge guys and had their careers cut short by injury.

Nobody has won a cup on size and toughness since the 70's in Phillie.

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Old
05-14-2013, 04:25 PM
  #935
Rosso Scuderia
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Saying we would probably not have won is moronic, still, saying our chances were very good to beat them is not?

By the way, I don't agree with neither of those two sentences.
So you're saying that the Habs team in general was outplayed, outchanced.. etc?

Seriously? Did you watch the game?

The only game we beat them is the game Price played well.

Game 1. We played well, tons of quality scoring chances. Anderson was dominant, Price was atrocious.

Game 2. We played well, PRICE played well, 1st star of the game.

Game 3. We played ok for 2 periods. Score was 2-1 Sens after 2. Things went downhill in the third with all the frustration penalty we took. Anderson again, 1 GA only.

Game 4. We played well, led for 2-0 for 48 minutes. A kick-in goal then a late 3rd period goal with all kind of mistake from the refs. Tie game. Budaj starts in OT, shat the bed. We lose.

Game 5. We started well, 17 shots on goal on the first period but Budaj couldn't stop a beach ball. Killed the Habs.

Anderson post SV% of ,960, ,912, ,971, ,929, ,971. for and average of ,950 in the whole series. Not many teams can win games against a goalie posting those numbers unless your goalie is even more dominant, which is far from being the case with Price and Budaj.

So if you don't think Anderson was the difference maker in this series, I don't know what you watched. We weren't outplayed by the Sens despite being blowout 6-1 twice.

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Old
05-14-2013, 04:26 PM
  #936
HiggsBozon
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
5'11, 194 lbs
Big player!

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Old
05-14-2013, 04:32 PM
  #937
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5'11, 194 lbs
as someone who has met him numerous times thats about acurate... I'm 5'11 and hes the same height as me, and he's not terribly thick either.

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05-14-2013, 04:34 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
So you're saying that the Habs team in general was outplayed, outchanced.. etc?

Seriously? Did you watch the game?

The only game we beat them is the game Price played well.

Game 1. We played well, tons of quality scoring chances. Anderson was dominant, Price was atrocious.

Game 2. We played well, PRICE played well, 1st star of the game.

Game 3. We played ok for 2 periods. Score was 2-1 Sens after 2. Things went downhill in the third with all the frustration penalty we took. Anderson again, 1 GA only.

Game 4. We played well, led for 2-0 for 48 minutes. A kick-in goal then a late 3rd period goal with all kind of mistake from the refs. Tie game. Budaj starts in OT, shat the bed. We lose.

Game 5. We started well, 17 shots on goal on the first period but Budaj couldn't stop a beach ball. Killed the Habs.

Anderson post SV% of ,960, ,912, ,971, ,929, ,971. for and average of ,950 in the whole series. Not many teams can win games against a goalie posting those numbers unless your goalie is even more dominant, which is far from being the case with Price and Budaj.

So if you don't think Anderson was the difference maker in this series, I don't know what you watched. We weren't outplayed by the Sens despite being blowout 6-1 twice.
I agree on the 6-1 games. If not for Anderson neither game comes close to a blowout. In fact I'd say his play early led to our guys getting frustrated and giving Ottawa more chances(mistakes and PP's).

IMHO the top 2 factors in the seies were...
1-Anderson playing out of his mind
2-our goalies playing like crap overall(game 2 was the only saving grace)

As much as size needs to be added/addressed it was a minor factor in the series. Ottawa has a pretty big defense but we still got a ton of shots/good chances. Their forwards are not that big other than the 4th line, Michalek and Greening have size but play soft.

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Old
05-14-2013, 04:46 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The injuries that killed us had nothing to do with being small or getting punished. Emelin got hurt throwing a hit. Price got hurt making a save. Gionta's arm got tangled.

Boston has a huge defense and like 3 of them(Seidenberg Ference Redden) are currently out.

Guys like Pronger E.Lindros B.Lindros are huge guys and had their careers cut short by injury.

Nobody has won a cup on size and toughness since the 70's in Phillie.
Not saying we need to be built on it but we need more of it for sure. LA was and is an extremely physical team, so were the Bs that won in 2011 and even Chicago in 2010 was way tougher than us now: Byfuglien, Brouwer, Bolland, Burish, Eager, Madden, Fraser all provided grit to make life easier for their skilled guys like Kane, Toews, Sharp and Hossa. We don't have that yet. Last time I remember a team being pure finesse to win it were the 2008 Wings. Then coaches remodeled their defensive styles for the new game and slowly but surely toughness and size became needed a lot more. The last three cup champs have gotten increasingly big and bruising. We're still softer than the average bear.

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05-14-2013, 04:58 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Hab-a-maniac View Post
Not saying we need to be built on it but we need more of it for sure. LA was and is an extremely physical team, so were the Bs that won in 2011 and even Chicago in 2010 was way tougher than us now: Byfuglien, Brouwer, Bolland, Burish, Eager, Madden, Fraser all provided grit to make life easier for their skilled guys like Kane, Toews, Sharp and Hossa. We don't have that yet. Last time I remember a team being pure finesse to win it were the 2008 Wings. Then coaches remodeled their defensive styles for the new game and slowly but surely toughness and size became needed a lot more. The last three cup champs have gotten increasingly big and bruising. We're still softer than the average bear.
The recurring theme on the teams that won cups recently other than Boston is they had skill palyers on the top of their lineups and a lot of grit/useful/physical guys in the bottom of their lineup(#5-6 d-men 3rd and 4th lines).

I don't think the Habs plan on winning with finesse only, that's why Moen Prust White Bourque Emelin etc were added. Up front we already have a decent mix of bigger players, just need more consistant physicality/toughness from the 4th line. On defense a lot of pieces are there or on the way in Emelin and Tinordi. Might need a Fistric or Regehr until Tinordi is ready for big minutes.

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05-14-2013, 06:19 PM
  #941
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Big player!
Hmmm, 194lbs at a low body fat percentage is pretty thick.
He's not big, hence everybody calling him a middleweight, but he's not small by any stretch of the imagination either.

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05-14-2013, 06:28 PM
  #942
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So at one point, we kept hearing that regular season means nothing, that it's not because we lost to the Leafs that we would have been losing to them in the playoffs....but then we would have done good in the playoffs because we did good against the Bruins in the regular season?

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05-14-2013, 06:43 PM
  #943
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Just a couple of things I noticed in the last few pages:

First of all, (dead serious) Pleks > Jagr AINEC. Jagr (despite his rousing speech) was paaaathetic. He made the bruins worse than they were ever since getting there. Sure he may have assisted on some goals, but they were weak assists, not the amazing plays he uses to make. Love the guy, but IMO he played terrible hockey. FTM Lucic was god awful the entire series until there's 90 secs left. Him and Jagr sapped the life out of the Bruins offense. Pleks has far more control of the puck, he CAN score and his playmaking is great. Oh, and he's a great two way player.

Second, although during the series it sucked, in retrospect, I'm not even mad about what happened with the Sens. You can say no excuses and that may be the team's motto, but there are REASONS the team lost and the biggest one is that the Habs weren't playing. Other teams have injuries, but we were decimated. It barely felt like the Habs were playing. Pacioretty playing with that injury explains a lot. Price having an injury down the stretch explains a lot. We were missing key frigging guys. You think we lose that NHL rigged game 4 with Prust having at least one functional arm? And it's a domino effect. Emelin --> Markov, Eller --> relying on DD and Pleks for offense. White --> no hitting/getting hit. Gionta-->Gionta down the stretch who was really good was gone/reliance on f'ing Ryder. Prust, Patch, Price playing injured to the point it severely affected their game--> come on...

Just saying, I'm not disappointed in the team and the leafs only did well because
a) they were healthy (except for Bozak)
b) the bruins are playing really really bad hockey.

Good for the leafs as a team, screw their fans.
All I'm hoping for now is that once we get into the playoffs, we are healthy. I want the actual team to play, not just a bunch of bodies representing the Habs of the regular season. Two different teams completely. Plus, we're moving towards size for all those obsessed with it, so don't fret. Healthy Habs = Cup in a few years.

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05-14-2013, 06:48 PM
  #944
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Just a couple of things I noticed in the last few pages:

First of all, (dead serious) Pleks > Jagr AINEC. Jagr (despite his rousing speech) was paaaathetic. He made the bruins worse than they were ever since getting there. Sure he may have assisted on some goals, but they were weak assists, not the amazing plays he uses to make. Love the guy, but IMO he played terrible hockey. FTM Lucic was god awful the entire series until there's 90 secs left. Him and Jagr sapped the life out of the Bruins offense. Pleks has far more control of the puck, he CAN score and his playmaking is great. Oh, and he's a great two way player.

Second, although during the series it sucked, in retrospect, I'm not even mad about what happened with the Sens. You can say no excuses and that may be the team's motto, but there are REASONS the team lost and the biggest one is that the Habs weren't playing. Other teams have injuries, but we were decimated. It barely felt like the Habs were playing. Pacioretty playing with that injury explains a lot. Price having an injury down the stretch explains a lot. We were missing key frigging guys. You think we lose that NHL rigged game 4 with Prust having at least one functional arm? And it's a domino effect. Emelin --> Markov, Eller --> relying on DD and Pleks for offense. White --> no hitting/getting hit. Gionta-->Gionta down the stretch who was really good was gone/reliance on f'ing Ryder. Prust, Patch, Price playing injured to the point it severely affected their game--> come on...

Just saying, I'm not disappointed in the team and the leafs only did well because
a) they were healthy (except for Bozak)
b) the bruins are playing really really bad hockey.

Good for the leafs as a team, screw their fans.
All I'm hoping for now is that once we get into the playoffs, we are healthy. I want the actual team to play, not just a bunch of bodies representing the Habs of the regular season. Two different teams completely. Plus, we're moving towards size for all those obsessed with it, so don't fret. Healthy Habs = Cup in a few years.
The NO EXUSES thing is for the players.

Injuries are not an excuse to show up with a bad attitude and not give your best. Obviously injuries and goaltending played a huge part in the series and as coaches/Gm you have to take a step back and analyse why the series was lost to learn from it.

No doubt the team needs more size/truculence/toughness but it was more of a minor reason for losing than a major reason. Ottawa had a lot of injuries eraly on, but other than Spezza their key guys were back(Anderson Karlsson Methot etc) by playoff time.

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Old
05-14-2013, 07:07 PM
  #945
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Anyone else hopping on the Jerome Iginla bandwagon? I know I am, would love to see him get a cup now that Saku is out.

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05-14-2013, 07:11 PM
  #946
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Anyone else hopping on the Jerome Iginla bandwagon? I know I am, would love to see him get a cup now that Saku is out.
Would be like Ray Bourque winning the cup.

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Old
05-14-2013, 07:16 PM
  #947
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Hmmm, 194lbs at a low body fat percentage is pretty thick.
He's not big, hence everybody calling him a middleweight, but he's not small by any stretch of the imagination either.
You're talking as in "real world". What I'm referring to is much more relative.

Fact is, the original poster claimed Plekanec was one of our small player, even if listed as 5'11 198 lbs, when Prust, a guy he claimed was one of our "big player", is at 5'11, 194 lbs.

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05-14-2013, 07:17 PM
  #948
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So at one point, we kept hearing that regular season means nothing, that it's not because we lost to the Leafs that we would have been losing to them in the playoffs....but then we would have done good in the playoffs because we did good against the Bruins in the regular season?
This is what I can't stand around here. So many people are so hypocritical. It's not even funny.

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05-14-2013, 07:17 PM
  #949
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Would be like Ray Bourque winning the cup.
He was a good soldier for Calgary and stuck through the hard times, I believe if any player in the league deserves a cup it's Iginla. Also, as much as I don't care for the Rangers, I like Lundqvist and wouldn't mind seeing him win one.

Pittsburgh vs. NYR ECF is what I would like.

Out west I guess Jumbo Joe wouldn't be bad winning one if any team. Not super excited about any team out west.

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05-14-2013, 07:22 PM
  #950
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Laffs are done, we are done, let's pass onto the next round, please. I say Rags and Pens in 6 or 7.

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