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Original Six All-Time All-Stars, East v. West

View Poll Results: Original Six; West or East All-Time All-Stars
West (Chicago/Detroit/Toronto) 6 66.67%
East (Boston/Montreal/New York) 3 33.33%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-08-2013, 05:15 PM
  #1
pdd
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Original Six All-Time All-Stars, East v. West

I've divided the O6 teams into three-team divisions, and created All-Star teams for each. Players can only be associated with one team, and I have used the team that players were most associated with (be it length of time played or peak/prime) DURING THE O6 PERIOD. Also, if you want to post your own teams, I'd love to see them.

So, which team is better, West or East?

West (Detroit/Chicago/Toronto)
Ted Lindsay/Sid Abel/Gordie Howe
Bobby Hull/Stan Mikita/Roy Conacher
Doug Bentley/Max Bentley/Norm Ullman
Frank Mahovlich/Dave Keon/Alex Delvecchio
Syd Howe
Syl Apps

Red Kelly/Marcel Pronovost
Pierre Pilote/Tim Horton
Jack Stewart/Bill Quackenbush
Allan Stanley

Terry Sawchuk
Glenn Hall

Coach: Jack Adams

East (Montreal/Boston/New York)
Toe Blake/Jean Beliveau/Andy Bathgate
Dickie Moore/Elmer Lach/Maurice Richard
Johnny Bucyk/Milt Schmidt/Bernie Geoffrion
Bert Olmstead/Henri Richard/Rod Gilbert
Bill Cowley
Buddy O'Connor

Doug Harvey/Butch Bouchard
Ken Reardon/Dit Clapper
Tom Johnson/Bill Gadsby
Harry Howell

Jacques Plante
Bill Durnan

Coach: Dick Irvin

EDIT: 2013-05-11; Bill Gadsby switched from East to West upon suggested review of his career. Allan Stanley replaced Gadsby on Team West, Gadsby replaced Fern Flaman. Vote count at time of change was 5-0.


Last edited by pdd: 05-11-2013 at 12:45 PM.
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05-08-2013, 05:22 PM
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Hawkey Town 18
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Do players get credit for their post-expansion accomplishments?


EDIT: Assuming yes


Last edited by Hawkey Town 18: 05-08-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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Old
05-08-2013, 06:08 PM
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Hawkey Town 18
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Here's mine. I decided to put Gadsby on the East team since his best years were with the Rangers (it also makes the team comparison a lot closer). I did not count Clapper as eligible...almost his entire career was pre-O6.

West
Lindsay - Abel - G. Howe
Hull - Mikita - Ullman
Mahovlich - Apps - Delvecchio
D. Bentley - Keon - M. Bentley
S. Howe

Horton - Kelly
Quackenbush - Pilote
Pronovost - J. Stewart
Brewer

Hall
Sawchuk


East
Moore - Beliveau - M. Richard
Bucyk - Schmidt - Bathgate
Blake - H. Richard - Geoffrion
Olmstead - Lach - Hextall
Cowley

Gadsby - Harvey
Lapperriere - Tremblay
Ken Reardon - Bouchard
T. Johnson

Plante
Brimsek


EDIT: Of my teams I think the West team is slightly better, with the largest advantages coming from the 2nd line and overall defensemen.


Last edited by Hawkey Town 18: 05-08-2013 at 06:16 PM.
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05-09-2013, 12:37 AM
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WEST

PlayersPOS"HHOF Monitor" PTS*
Hull BobbyLW3078.00
Lindsay TedLW2589.00
Mahovlich FrankLW1367.50
Bentley DougLW1357.50
   
Mikita StanC2133.50
Kennedy TedC1637.50
Delvecchio AlexC1502.50
Bentley MaxC1330.00
Abel SidC1244.50
   
Howe GordieRW5926.50
Armstrong GeorgeRW929.00
Mosienko BillRW741.50
Wharram KennyRW718.50
   
Kelly RedD2983.00
Pilote PierreD2006.10
Stewart JackD1231.25
Pronovost MarcelD1221.40
Horton TimD1009.35
Stanley AllanD835.25
Thomson James R.D753.35
   
Hall GlennG2668.50
Sawchuk TerryG2596.50
Bower JohnnyG1441.00



EAST

PlayersPOS"HHOF Monitor" PTS*
Moore DickieLW1651.50
Blake ToeLW808.50
Olmstead BertLW785.50
Marshall DonLW716.50
   
Lach ElmerC1866.50
Richard HenriC1375.50
Schmidt MiltC940.00
O'Connor BuddyC901.50
Cowley BillC885.00
   
Richard MauriceRW4205.00
Geoffrion BernieRW2239.50
Bathgate AndyRW1392.50
Provost ClaudeRW1171.00
   
Harvey DougD3298.70
Bouchard Emile ButchD1441.50
Johnson TomD1046.75
Gadsby BillD844.85
Talbot Jean GuyD811.50
Reardon KenD803.85
Laperriere JacquesD716.90
   
Plante JacquesG2645.00
Durnan BillG2124.50
Brimsek FrankG808.50

* - 1942-67


Last edited by pnep: 11-07-2013 at 03:04 AM.
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05-11-2013, 11:16 AM
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Team West.

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05-11-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Here's mine. I decided to put Gadsby on the East team since his best years were with the Rangers (it also makes the team comparison a lot closer).
That's a good point... I was associating him more with the Hawks; upon further review it is probably better to place him with the Rangers and team East.

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05-11-2013, 04:14 PM
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Killion
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
That's a good point... I was associating him more with the Hawks; upon further review it is probably better to place him with the Rangers and team East.
Another point... why would you insert the best Coach of the 06 era into the line-up of Team East thus denying Team West of Toe Blake? Jack Adams was a Nightmare, and there are a number of players who could fill Blakes skates up-front. He's way more valuable behind the bench then on the ice.

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05-11-2013, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Another point... why would you insert the best Coach of the 06 era into the line-up of Team East thus denying Team West of Toe Blake? Jack Adams was a Nightmare, and there are a number of players who could fill Blakes skates up-front. He's way more valuable behind the bench then on the ice.
Why would Blake (played and coached for Montreal) be on Team West?

Blake as a coach would be Team East; Blake was also a great player and is deserving of being selected to the team; Dick Irvin was an amazing coach as well (and coached Blake).

I could see arguing to replace Adams with Punch Imlach or Tommy Ivan, but Toe Blake isn't even West-eligible.

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05-11-2013, 05:12 PM
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Ahh, I see what youve done now eva. Coaches as well have to be from the East or West. Not fair.

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05-11-2013, 05:16 PM
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Ahh, I see what youve done now eva. Coaches as well have to be from the East or West. Not fair.
Yeah, the West kind of gets screwed on coaching. Good thing they have a much better roster.

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05-11-2013, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Yeah, the West kind of gets screwed on coaching. Good thing they have a much better roster.
I like your Goaltending picks with the exception of.... Glenn Hall. If I could turn back the clock & capture Lightning in a Bottle, I'd replace him with wee Roger Crozier circa 64'ish. I was never a fan of "Mr. Goalie", and as your likely aware, I played net myself, as a kid witness to the Big 4 or 5 of Plante, Sawchuk et al. The Butterfly was/is really little more than a save selection, not how I believe the position should be played on a full-time basis. However, I do empathize with todays players in that its just about the only way the position can be played with the cycle game one faces out front. Youve gotta play back, deeper in the crease. Perhaps the best illustration being Dryden, taken apart by the Soviets in 72. He figured it out, eventually (and he's noted for intelligence? Wat dat?), but by that time, TeamCanada on the ropes. Sinden as well, Game 4 by the time he played 4 men up front, stopping the Soviets in the neutral zone. Trap. Not pretty.

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05-11-2013, 06:40 PM
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I like your Goaltending picks with the exception of.... Glenn Hall. If I could turn back the clock & capture Lightning in a Bottle, I'd replace him with wee Roger Crozier circa 64'ish. I was never a fan of "Mr. Goalie", and as your likely aware, I played net myself, as a kid witness to the Big 4 or 5 of Plante, Sawchuk et al.
I like Crozier, but I absolutely have to go with Hall.

He came in and basically took Sawchuk's job away in 1955. Sawchuk was the best goalie in the league at the time. He was then traded off two years later with Ted Lindsay to Chicago (which led to Johnny Bucyk being dealt to get Sawchuk back). Hall continued to play amazing hockey in Chicago.

Crozier only played three of his fourteen seasons in the Original Six era, so it's really hard to argue for his inclusion even if he were worthy on a skill basis.

As for the "style" part of your post (which I clipped off), there's an easy answer.

Stop. The. Puck. I don't care if you use, stand-up, hybrid, butterfly, "flopping", or telepathy* as long as you keep the puck out of the net.

The guy who is the best at keeping the puck out plays, regardless of whether he's a 5'6" standup or a 6'3" butterfly, or any other size and style. Puck not in goal=success!

*-telepathy has been added to the list of known goaltending techniques with Jonathan Quick in the NHL.

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05-11-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I like Crozier, but I absolutely have to go with Hall...
Yepp. Good points. Though heres the thing with this "myth" of Hall displacing Sawchuk; Hall was low maintenance / Sawchuk was obstreperous, argumentative, difficult. Was Glenn Hall "better" or was it more a case of your pick for Coach "Jolly Jack" taking the path of least resistance & ease? I think the latter eva, theres just no way Adams shouldve traded Terry like that, screwed with his head, really bad spin, and Adams did not care one frig. Mr.Goalie was not an ideal to play to as a kid contemporaneously. He was soft in the head as far as I was concerned. A battler ya, but not a Money Player. Idiotic inverted 'V' only good on screens, dekes, and, foolishly, wore goals around his neck. Couldnt shake it off... and whats with the upchucking? If you have to play a "game" bulimic your an idiot. WTF is that?

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05-11-2013, 07:16 PM
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Yepp. Good points. Though heres the thing with this "myth" of Hall displacing Sawchuk; Hall was low maintenance / Sawchuk was obstreperous, argumentative, difficult. Was Glenn Hall "better" or was it more a case of your pick for Coach "Jolly Jack" taking the path of least resistance & ease? I think the latter eva, theres just no way Adams shouldve traded Terry like that, screwed with his head, really bad spin, and Adams did not care one frig. Mr.Goalie was not an ideal to play to as a kid contemporaneously. He was soft in the head as far as I was concerned. A battler ya, but not a Money Player. Idiotic inverted 'V' only good on screens, dekes, and, foolishly, wore goals around his neck. Couldnt shake it off... and whats with the upchucking? If you have to play a "game" bulimic your an idiot. WTF is that?
Adams did the same thing to Sawchuk with Hall as he did to Lumley with Sawchuk. The only difference is that he turned around and made Hall a throw-in when he banished Lindsay. Stupid move.

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05-11-2013, 08:04 PM
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Adams did the same thing to Sawchuk with Hall as he did to Lumley with Sawchuk. The only difference is that he turned around and made Hall a throw-in when he banished Lindsay. Stupid move.
Have you ever taken the time, like actually sat down & thought about Jack Adams, his thought processes etc? I mean, the guys insane eva. And you just dropped him behind my bench?... what. are. you. thinking?.

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05-11-2013, 11:28 PM
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Have you ever taken the time, like actually sat down & thought about Jack Adams, his thought processes etc? I mean, the guys insane eva. And you just dropped him behind my bench?... what. are. you. thinking?.
The guy was a very good coach. However, he used his GM position as a weapon to threaten his players. If you go back and look at "Trader Jack", he was somewhat limited in the moves he made until the death of James Norris; then for three years (with Marguerite Norris in control of the team) he made almost no moves. Then Bruce Norris takes over, and he's making moves all over the place. If you look only at Adams from 55 until the end of his tenure in 1962, he looks like Mike Milbury. This is a guy who was GM for 35 years with one team, and won seven Cups in that time frame in that capacity.

That's a 20% success rate. Better than raw odds for a six team league. If you take out the "insane bitter angry Jack" years from 1955 on, that's seven Cups in 28 years, or 25%.

Granted, with Adams I did take some of his non-O6 into account as far as his coaching. He coached five O6 years with one Cup, one first-team selection as coach, and one second-team selection. Which is competitive but not conclusive. But what he did leading up to the O6 was win a couple other Cups and another first-team selection as coach.

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05-12-2013, 02:24 AM
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The guy was a very good coach...

eva?,
there was something decidedly wrong with that man, and yet, you put him behind MY bench? Either your just sardonically twisted or just plain EVIL... when I decide which, I'll let you know. In fact, you'll be the first to know because if its the latter; Major Infractions. Gross Misconduct. Sent to Coventry and NOT in my case for the first nor probably last time.... hey ho.

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05-13-2013, 08:48 AM
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eva?,
there was something decidedly wrong with that man, and yet, you put him behind MY bench? Either your just sardonically twisted or just plain EVIL... when I decide which, I'll let you know. In fact, you'll be the first to know because if its the latter; Major Infractions. Gross Misconduct. Sent to Coventry and NOT in my case for the first nor probably last time.... hey ho.
So your pick would be?

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05-13-2013, 11:51 PM
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Hawkey Town 18
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Tommy Ivan should be the coach for the West...I definitely rank him above Adams.

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05-14-2013, 12:09 AM
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Tommy Ivan should be the coach for the West...I definitely rank him above Adams.
Ya. Tommy's a good man. Almost anyone but Jack Adams plz.

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